Thoughts on new instructors

[DSW]

It's that time of year again and I'm trying to sign up for one of the forging classes at the local college. I've done one of their 4 day summer classes the last two years. This year instead of just one instructor, they have three different people. The original instructor  and two new ones whom I don't have a lot of information on, other that I assume from their credentials they are well qualified.

 

 

I'm somewhat torn on which class to sign up for. Part of me is thinking that the original instructor is already familiar with me and my skill set, and I can just take up where I left off ( assuming I can find the time to get back in practice before class). On the other hand I'm thinking having a fresh view on the subject can often be enlightening and helpful. And no right now I don't have the money to take more than one class this year... LOL ;)  Besides they also offer a bunch of other classes I'd love to take if I could afford to take more than one.

 

 

I'm wondering what others take on the matter would be. Would you continue with someone you've worked with before, or would you try someone else and why.

 

 

 

Here's the writeup on the instructors just in case someone might know of one of them and be familiar with them. I have had Warren the last two years and he's been a great instructor.

 

Warren Holzman studied sculpture under Phoebe Adams at Kutztown University where he received his BFA in 1994. He was awarded blacksmithing assistantships at Peters Valley Craft Center and the Pennland School of Crafts, and he has worked as an industrial fabricator, refining his metalworking skills and dedicating himself to his craft. In 2000, Holzman opened the Iron Studio Ltd., a custom blacksmithing shop in Philadelphia known for its high-level craft. Warren was recently commissioned by the City of Philadelphia to build a piece of site-specific public art for Hawthorne Park in South Philadelphia. He is an adjunct sculpture and large metals teacher at Moore College of Art and Design, and he teaches forging at Bryn Athyn College.

 

 

John J. Rais In this fun, exploratory workshop we will deal primarily with hand forged implements of beauty and function. Hand held objects such as, but not limited to serving spoons and forks, spatulas, and even basic door handles. We will work primarily from the forge, covering a wide range of hammering techniques to move steel into a desired form. Tapering, splitting, punching, riveting and fire-welding will be taught. Students should expect to finish at least one incredibly hand forged, hand-held piece of functional art to be proud of. Bring your ideas and an open mind to possibilities. Experimentation is encouraged.  |  John Rais has been engaged in the field of metalsmithing and object design all his adult life. He has a BFA in Sculpture from Massachusetts College of Art, and an MFA in Metalsmithing from Cranbrook Academy of Art in Bloomfield Hills, MI in 1998. From there, he was the Department Head of Blacksmithing at Peters Valley Craft Education Center in Layton, NJ. John has maintained his own studio business since 1998, where he creates one of-a-kind furniture, sculpture and, architectural metal work. John’s work is shown, commissioned, and collected internationally, including solo shows at the National  Metals Museum, Purchase College and Massimo Bizzocchi NYC. He has designed and created works for a Frank Lloyd Wright home, Louis Kahn home, and many others.  His work has been featured on the pages of Departures magazine, Ritz-Carlton magazine, Metalsmith, American Craft magazine, Artscope and many others. He has been featured in several books as well.  John has also taught at many universities and schools including Penland School of Crafts, SUNY Purchase, and SUNY New Paltz. He has been a visiting artist at Virginia Commonwealth University, Millersville University, University of Michigan, The College for Creative Studies, and Kutztown University. John was a Senior Lecturer of Crafts at the University of the Arts in Philadelphia (2004-2006). In  2006 he was awarded an Arts/ Industry Residency at the prestigious John Michael Kohler Art Center in Wisconsin, and in the fall of 2007 he was artist in residence in applied design at Purchase College in NY, where he also taught a master’s class in applied design. He worked on a large series of decorative forged panels for permanent installation for the main staircase of the Yale University Art Galleries in 2012. Currently, He is deigning and forging decorative Ironwork for a historic landmark Addison Mizner home , Villa des Cygnes, in Palm Beach, Florida. John currently has his home and studio in Philadelphia, PA.

 

 

Mike Rossi By combining simple forging techniques, each student will build a versatile base of knowledge. Students will complete one or two projects, while pushing themselves to develop a forged vocabulary.  |  Mike Rossi studied blacksmithing at Northern Michigan University, and Cranbrook Academy of Art; additionally, he apprenticed to several metalworkers around the country. He has exhibited nationally and abroad, at the Houston Center for Contemporary Craft, the National Ornamental Metals Museum, in Memphis, and the Target Gallery in Alexandria, Virginia, in addition to several private galleries.  He has taught at Penland School of Craft, Kalamazoo College, and Ox-Bow School of Art; and has been a resident artist at Haystack Mountain School of Craft and Penland.  Mike is the principal of Rossi Metal Design, an architectural metalwork and sculpture studio based in West Philadelphia.

[jeremy k]

There is nothing wrong with staying with one you know, although a different instructor may give some new light on the same areas you've worked with your last instructor. Learn from as many as you can to broaden your skill sets.

[JimsShip]

If you're close to your original instructor, i'd ask his opinion of who would further your skills better. he may say you need more work with him before moving on, or he may have an opinion on the other's teaching styles, and how you'd work with them.
Good luck either way, i'm a bit jealous.

[Steve Sells]

There is a lot to be said for continuity in training. Having the same instructor will, as you observed, be able to cleanly pick up where you left off the last time.  On the other hand, having the opportunity to train under a diffferent smith has advantages also.

 

Not too long ago I was at a event on stand-by for a new smith giving his first demo, meaning he wanted me there to bail him out, if he got in over his head. I did not really expect to learn anything about smithing that day, seeing how I taught him a portion of what he knows.

 

As I was standing on the outer perimeter mainly watching the crowd reactions, I noticed that rather than do a drop tong after moving stock to anvil, or even asking a specatator for a pair of hands to hold stock while he split the 3/4 inch bar down the center to make a fork.... he clamped the stock in the leg vise, and used the vise jaw as a guide for the chissel to sideways cut the stock splitting the 3/4 inch wide stock clean down the center, perfectly.  I witnessed a new trick I had not thought of.

 

So while I have been around a while and like to think I know what I am doing most of the time, I am always being reminded that I can learn new stuff from anyone.  The lesson of this story is Never pass a chance to see another smith work.  The hard part is when we have a choice of many smiths to watch.  Good luck in making your choice.

[SpankySmith]

I second the idea, for what my opinion is worth as a complete novice, to check out online the work of the various instructors and go with the one whose work speaks to you the most.  I have already figured out there is a great deal of variety from one smith to the next, some I am just fascinated by and some just... meh... go with one whose work fascinates you.   

[ThomasPowers]

Personally the gobbledy gook in the descriptions sure did put a hold on me wanting to see the other two at work...

[bird]

I know all those guys. You can't go wrong. Any basic forging class is going to cover the same stuff. Each guy will have his own take on what's important and when, but they'll mostly cover the same stuff. If one of the descriptions speaks to what you'd want to work on more than the others, that's the one. If not, a repeat student is always a compliment to an instructor, but you might benefit from someone else's take on things. Have a great class!

[Frank Turley]

I've worked with Holzman and Rais at Peters Valley, NJ, in the old days...both very good.

[Francis Trez Cole]

looking at the description. If you need help with the terminology of blacksmithing take the class with Mike. If you are interested with the idea of making hand held items take the class with john. and then there is no real discretion but you know what to expect with Warren.

I feel it is more important to get the basics from one instructor. Then to get as much exposure to as many smiths as you can. Styles and techniques will all differ. The more exposure you get the broader your style will grow. That is why conferences and monthly meeting are so important to help you develop as a smith.

[L Smith]

I agree with Steve. Remember most of us did not have the money or time available to travel east to visit ABANA ( I guess these are) sponserd programs back when it all started even tho we we were members.

[Frosty]

Not knowing any of the instructors I think I go along with Jim's advice. I'd talk to the instructor I knew and get his advice. I've heard endorsements I'd take to the bank so I believe the quality is there whoever you decide on.

 

Might need a 3 sided coin.

 

Frosty The Lucky.

[ausfire]

You guys are all spoilt for choice! I would like the opportunity to have any experienced smith show me anything.

[metalmangeler]

you might want to see if there are any videos of the new guys, then you might have a better idea.

[DSW]

If you're close to your original instructor, i'd ask his opinion of who would further your skills better. he may say you need more work with him before moving on, or he may have an opinion on the other's teaching styles, and how you'd work with them.
Good luck either way, i'm a bit jealous.

 

 

 

Before posting this I sent Warren a PM since he's a member here even if he's not on much, hoping to get his input on the subject. I'm always hesitant to call people at work and "pester" them about non work things. Guess I'm just old school about calling people about just anything and being self employed I know how often these kinds of things can be distracting from the important things that need to get done daily to keep the money rolling in.

 

I appreciate all the thoughts and replies. I'm still somewhat undecided but will most likely take Warrens 2nd class. I'll have to get off my butt and sign up soon. Not too much time left until classes start. I may make some time and try and stick my head in when the other classes start so I can get a feel what the other instructors are like. ( one of the nice things about being self employed and being able to set your own schedule most times.. :P ) That way if they are back next year I have an idea what they are like, and it's always nice to get the opportunity to meet others in the field. You never know when that might help in the future.

[anvil]

You might consider just what direction your present work is taking you and choose the one who will strengthen this direction.

[DSW]

Well Yesterday I signed up for Warrens July 10-13th class. 1st class next week is just too soon and I figured if for some reason Warrens class doesn't fill, I can always fall back on Johns or Mikes. Now I just have to get started on thinking about what exactly I want to do.

 

Tentative plan is to maybe work on forged legs for my big coal forge. Some one here recently posted up a nice set that I may use as inspiration. probably want to design it to break down for storage ease. I'm not sure if I want to go with 4 independent legs, or set it up as two end " horses" the you remove. Next question will be if it will be stable enough without braces down at the bottom. If not I'll have to probably set the braces up with wedged tenons so I can break the base down. Probably go with some sort of socket attachment at the top. I'm thinking of setting up sockets on corner plates and then riveting those to the forge. Still thinking over all the parts. I need to remember next time I'm by the office supply place to pick up some big graph paper if I can't locate my graph pad and trace.

[lupiphile]

Hey Doug,

                  I'm sorry, I hadn't seen this before. Mike is a good friend of mine, Jon is a employer to a good friend of mine, as is Warren. All three are more than qualified. Jon and Warren have the national reputation, Mike's work is just as good but a little harder to track down as that he principally works for other people. Also if you have a specific project in mind I might be able to help you out. I too make nice things but have a hard time patience-wise with computers. Do you do concrete work? A work exchange could be arranged or even some consultation would be appreciated as that i'm planning a shop build. Take care, Matt

[lupiphile]

I ,meant to encourage you to give me a call, but I hit post to soon. Take care, Matt 

[DSW]

Matt I don't think I have your contact info. I'll shoot you a Pm with my number, give me a call.

[L Smith]

My large coal forge came from an old farm. The elderly lady that sold it to me said her husband ordered it from sears. My guess it measures 30-36 inches across and is filled maybe 6 inches deep with cement of some sort. One leg of the four is a little weak but has not buckled yet. It is heavy to move around so I watch that leg. Have no idea on its age since I have not found it listed in any sears catalogue yet. Right now I keep it buried in storage until we can move. My point is   "sometimes we overthink our builds"  to the sublime.     Does anyone have a direction to find this forge in a sears catalogue?