kayakersteve Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 I started this at 15 layers of 1084, 5160, 15N20 and folded 3 times intially, then twice after that - Total layer count now 90 layers. I will keep here and draw out now as I like the thicker definition from lower layer counts - Dont know why pics are out of order below, but you will understand when looking Not sure what I will do to pattern it yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 I dont understand your math, If you only fold in half your starting stack of 15 layers, first fold is 30 layers ( 2 x 15 = 30 ) the next makes 60 ( prev 30 x2 = 60 ) one more fold would make is 120 layers ( 2 x 60 = 120 ) You have a pic stating 45, which I assume would have been if cut into 3 sections and stacking for the first weld ( 3 x 15 = 45) a weld but you said made 5 folds and got 90 layers that makes me confused where does 90 come from Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latticino Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 I assumed he did a total of 5 folds: a trifold - 3 x 15 layers= 45 layers a double up - 2 x 45 layers = 90 layers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kayakersteve Posted April 25, 2014 Author Share Posted April 25, 2014 Steve - Reread post or look at what latticino said - its at 90 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 I started this at 15 layers of 1084, 5160, 15N20 and folded 3 times intially, then twice after that - Total layer count now 90 layers. this is why I was confused, I saw the 5 folds thing... fold is a bad word lol I think of fold as an operation not a group of layers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 Guys, every FOLD DOUBLES the count. 15 to the 5th power = 480 layers. What you're doing is stacking so it's simple addition, multiplication will tell you the total. 5x15=75 To get a 90 layer billet you must've stacked 3 and folded once. Had you folded it twice it'd be 180 layers. Sorry to break your record Steve but no, you aren't wrong, your mathfu is strong. . . this time. <grin> Frosty The Lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kayakersteve Posted April 26, 2014 Author Share Posted April 26, 2014 Now I'm confused - Was 15 layers - Welded and lengthened - Cut into three equal pieces and stacked - Welded again and now 45 layers - Cut in half and stacked - Welded again - now 90 layers. The pics below are a 3 1/2" section I cut off to draw out tomorrow. Welds look great to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billyO Posted April 26, 2014 Share Posted April 26, 2014 Now I'm confused Looks to me like everyone else is confused..... :unsure: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted April 26, 2014 Share Posted April 26, 2014 its sun spots :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted April 26, 2014 Share Posted April 26, 2014 Looks to me like everyone else is confused..... :unsure: Yep and ain't this a definitive example of why professional jargon is critical to communications within a trade. My mother explained to me why jargon (not that she used the word jargon, I was maybe 8) is important by asking me how I thought a cake would taste if "C" could mean anything from: Cup to Cap to Chocolate to Cod liver oil. When she said Cap she held up a bottle cap, I knew what a cup was, chocolate most especially and cod liver oil ewwwwwww! Does it matter if fold, stack and who knows what all mean the same thing or maybe each changes definition every time it's used in the same paragraph? I love word play but we're here primarily for accurate communications, though a pun slips through once in a while. <grin> Frosty The Lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Hale Posted April 26, 2014 Share Posted April 26, 2014 Maybe I see a different side of this thread. No matter how anyone counts the layers...This man is showing his product from some time in the shop.....Time well spent... Totally agree with Frosty about the descriptive words used to relay to others about our work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kayakersteve Posted April 26, 2014 Author Share Posted April 26, 2014 Thanks everyone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loneforge Posted April 26, 2014 Share Posted April 26, 2014 Cool can't wait to see what this will become! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitch4ging Posted April 26, 2014 Share Posted April 26, 2014 ^^^ Same as Loneforge! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kayakersteve Posted April 27, 2014 Author Share Posted April 27, 2014 Here's where I am with the small section I cut off and have drawn out - Can work on a couple knives now. Has a ladder pattern Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrought Iron Farm Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 15x3=45folded once=90folded once=180 layers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 I count "folds" as being how many hinges there were: so a Z fold has 2 hinges and triples the number of layers and a regular fold has 1 hinge and doubles the layers. Cutting and stacking 3 high is equivalent to a Z fold. So the above piece has 3 folds: 1 Z and one Double and 90 layers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kayakersteve Posted June 17, 2014 Author Share Posted June 17, 2014 Thomas - You are correct! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodge Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 Stack, fold, addition, multiplication, blah, blah, blah. The maker should know how many layers he has. ;) But I'm with Rich on this: Nice work, kayakersteve :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kayakersteve Posted June 22, 2014 Author Share Posted June 22, 2014 ThAnke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCROB Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 what Dodge said - "Stack, fold, addition, multiplication, blah, blah, blah" ........lots of layers !! looks great so far Steve , keep pics coming Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianinsa Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Now we all know that 'mafs' is almost as hard as 'rithmitic' so I can understand the complication, so doesn't the number change cause you grind away half a layer(maybe 1/3 to2/3) every time you stack? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 I was taught - the general rule is 3% loss in layers after the third fold for counting, but the only real way is cut the blade in half and use a microscope and count them. It is not worth it, the layer count is only meaningful to the one making the billet for pattern creation anyway. In the end no one really worries about layer being counted after its finished Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admanfrd Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 <starting layers>•(2)•<number of folds> 17^5= 1,419,857 layers (17•2)5 = 170 layers It is not exponential in growth. So here ya go. actually it is exponential, It is your math skills that are lacking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kayakersteve Posted June 23, 2014 Author Share Posted June 23, 2014 Please read post #7 before any other math guesses - THE BILLET IS 90 LAYERS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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