PaulKrzysz Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Sir are these the pictures you wanted to share? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alec.S Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Seems like Brian has been facebook-ised. There is none! I believe the format here encourages one to use one's vernacular to express one's gratitude at another one's support to one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianbrazealblacksmith Posted March 31, 2014 Author Share Posted March 31, 2014 · Hidden by Glenn, March 31, 2014 - No reason given Hidden by Glenn, March 31, 2014 - No reason given You are such a smart Alec! Link to comment
SJS Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 In situations like this you should never defend yourself (Let your friends do it...) Brian is only self taught in that he continues to question the processes and techniques that he has seen and read, and developed himself. I cannot begin to list adequately all the top notch blacksmiths and farriers that Brian has worked with but here is a go at it: Alfred Habberman, Uri Hofi, Tom Clark... Brian is also a well liked and respected demonstrator at conferences all over the US, and used to lead trips to Europe to take other blacksmiths to Alfred Habberman's shop. He is well traveled and can forgeweld very well indeed. He has very good fire control and phenomenal hammer control. He is one of the best smiths with a hand hammer I have ever watched work. Enough about Brian and how ridiculous Dan's assumptions seem... Why did he bring this up in the first place, so people would think him an incompetent goob who cant do a faggot weld... I don't think so. I think he doesn't like how weak it looks, and it offends his sense of forged things should be beautiful and functional. He is making a point about how this is taught, and how most of the time it ends up being a weak weld... Can an experienced blacksmith correct for the weakness he is pointing out? I suspect so, I think if after being for warned, by him pointing it out, that I could be extra careful to make the faggot weld long enough for it to be stronger, but I could be overconfident of my abilities;-) It could be Brian is right, maybe something like doing a drop tong weld with properly scarfed pieces would yield a more satisfying bulk to the point and a stronger joint for the hook. Now that I think about it, I seem to remember making a poker with this technique years & years ago, and being disappointed with the results from a structural standpoint... I don't have time to test it, but I will try to remember to play with this when I get the chance... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 There is a discussion about this on another site where I have posted pictures, but it has not developed to its entirety yet. I do have more pictures to share though. I just don't know how to share them here. Why send people off site for a discussion going on right here? Other sites will not allow IFI to copy their discussion and merge it with ours so unless the information is posted here. It is a dis-service to both sites, meaning you do not get a full discussion on either site. Brian, I will assist you in getting photos posted on IForgeIron. It is not that difficult when you have a go by to follow. I am in the process of typing up a step by step instruction and will send it to you when I finish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianbrazealblacksmith Posted March 31, 2014 Author Share Posted March 31, 2014 Because, Glen, I don't know how to do it. I'm just a blacksmith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LastRonin Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 I am not taking sides on who is right or wrong in the mechanics being addressed in this thread. I was disappointed at the seeming rudeness in some of the earlier posts by Brian and Dan. But it was good to see that Brian apologized. Now it is disturbing to see the rudeness continue from you Dan. For those of us who are here to learn the various techniques and styles, please do not create an air of negativity by continuing rudeness. I for one am interested in learning techniques and ideas from any and all experienced smiths, including you Dan. I will keep those that work for me and set aside the ones that don't. I agree that it is quite acceptable for two adults to disagree, but please... let us all do it like adults and leave the disparaging comments out of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Brian, I am in the process of fixing that so you can be both a blacksmith and post photos of your work. Please give me time to lay out the materials you need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy k Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Paul - I understand that concept - oh and thank You - only 101 posts to get some sort of closure but not fully,Brian - Ok say I started with a 1/2" square bar and was to make a fire poker that the client wanted a point on the end with a "S" shaped hook going back towards the handle - hence the basic cut fold weld situation...... HOW can this be done so its a sound weld??? simple as that - the picture Paul posted is fine for a leaf branch situation - very understandable and easy,The issue is - what type of scarf is needed to make a cut, fold, weld sound??? - cut fully apart and upset each end as Pauls posted pictures???(Brians picture/sketch) - (I'm starting with a 1/2" square bar) -if so ok - that's a bit more work for the price of a simple poker, If that's what your getting at - that's all I wanted to know - other ways?? - DO TELL - or is it a see how many posts can be made before the solution is reveled? If that's the case then the title should have read "Guess How This is Done"I'm not trying to cause waves - just seems that this is taking way to long from your original post saying that the cut,fold,weld was not a sound weld and you know how to make it sound but not letting the ""secret"" out on how that scarf should be made. I don't do a lot of forge welding but yes I know, like I said previously - I've encountered the issue of your original post - I'd like to know the better way of doing it being you brought this subject up to begin with.(As others would too I would assume) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitch4ging Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Lastronin...agreed! Brian, please give Glenn a chance, he's trying to help, plus we all want to see the photos! Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianbrazealblacksmith Posted March 31, 2014 Author Share Posted March 31, 2014 Hey, I'm just trying to help. I did post alternatives a long time ago, and it did not get much attention. I did it all again yesterday and today to try and show some of it, but there is more that is worth seeing. I just don't know how to do that part of it. Anyone, or someone is welcome to come and take pictures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy k Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Brian - so everything is an alternative to the cut fold weld - and "NOT" the cut, fold, weld? or do you use a certain type of scarf to do this on 1/2" square bar in addition to the cut, fold, weld? I guess that is whats puzzling to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianbrazealblacksmith Posted March 31, 2014 Author Share Posted March 31, 2014 Jeremy, I just got in from working today and had to cook my own dinner because Karen is gone and I've been answering other questions on different venues. I can't answer everything at a moments notice. Someone should come by that has better technology than I to record what you are asking and more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy k Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 OK I rest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianbrazealblacksmith Posted March 31, 2014 Author Share Posted March 31, 2014 Thanks, Jeremy, I'm going to rest now, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan P. Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 I was disappointed at the seeming rudeness in some of the earlier posts by Brian and Dan. But it was good to see that Brian apologized. Now it is disturbing to see the rudeness continue from you Dan. I understand the disappointment, but for the record, I would like to say that I have not used any curse words, nor resorted to crude insults, and really have nothing to apologise for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausfire Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Whoa, I have just read through all this heated conversation. I have no comment to make other than I am way way out of my depth here. I would just like to know how to make a weld. Any weld. Without resorting to Mr MIG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianbrazealblacksmith Posted March 31, 2014 Author Share Posted March 31, 2014 Ausfire, what I call a forge welded bundle is one of the simplest welds to do. I've had 9 and 10 year olds do it as their first forging project. There have been a few people on this sight that have done it, also. There is a thread I started called, Another forge welded bundle, that used to show many different applications, and I think there is a picture or two towards the end. It has been moved to "Metal Sculpture & Carvings". Michael Budd from the UK put another solution to this issue on Facebook that I saw this morning. He added a wedge inside the crotch, and he came out with a beautiful weld and the members were not compromised either. Thanks Michael! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DKForge Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 I have followed this discussion here and on another site and have a few comments to make. When I started blacksmithing, one of my first forge welds was a weld like Brian discussed and it resulted in a weld much as he describes. It bent behind the weld, did not have structural integrity (it opened up) and the pieces were diminished in size from that of the parent stock. What it taught me was that I needed to take more care if this was the type of weld I wanted to use for the project at hand. I have since used this weld in projects where it was appropriate in a quick and efficient manner for the particular purpose at hand. Key point to this is it taught me a valuable lesson from the start by showing me its weakness IF not done correctly. I don't have photos or videos or x-rays to back up what I am saying. I have watched Brian demo at a number of events and don't question many of his skills as a blacksmith. I know he has a lot of followers and I see where alot have jumped in to defend him and help support what he was trying to say in his posts. The beginning of this was a confusing conversation and some attempts to clarify I fear made the waters even muddier. I do not know Dan P. I have never seen him work in the forge or any of his work. The part of this discussion that has me troubled is that there is a tone by some that Brian could not be wrong in his assertions. This seems to have led to comments against anyone who does not agree with what Brian has posted. I have seen this with other well known blacksmiths where what they say is treated as though it has to be correct because THEY said it. Blacksmithing, like any other hobby or profession is a constant path of learning where through our experiences we make assumptions and travel a path that will diverge as further learning is gained. There are times our assumptions are correct and there are times they are not regardless of how far along the path we are or what our name may be. Just some observations from a fellow blacksmith who truly just wants us all to do the best work we can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan P. Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Michael Budd from the UK put another solution to this issue on Facebook that I saw this morning. He added a wedge inside the crotch, and he came out with a beautiful weld and the members were not compromised either. Thanks Michael! Using that little dart or glut in the inside of the weld will spread stress over two weld boundaries rather than just one, so in that sense it is stronger. It also looks very neat. It does, however, still entail all of the defects that you have listed for the weld without the glut, i.e. wastage and intrinsic lack of strength. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianbrazealblacksmith Posted March 31, 2014 Author Share Posted March 31, 2014 One of the main things that I want to convey is do not believe what you read and do not believe me. Examine the results of your actions. The evidence of each hit is there to see for yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DKForge Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Dan and Brian if there was a place to "like" your posts I would have hit it on those last two. Well done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan P. Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Here is something I made a little while ago, for those who suspect me (perhaps rightly) of being a troll. I don't know if I have posted it before. It is a sign post made in an 18th century style. It is entirely of fire-welded construction, using either the simple lap weld (being referred to as a "faggot weld" in this post) or simple scarf to scarf weld. To my knowledge it is still in one piece. The inner part is roughly 18" x 18". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan P. Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 The part of this discussion that has me troubled is that there is a tone by some that Brian could not be wrong in his assertions. This seems to have led to comments against anyone who does not agree with what Brian has posted. I have seen this with other well known blacksmiths where what they say is treated as though it has to be correct because THEY said it. Blacksmithing, like any other hobby or profession is a constant path of learning where through our experiences we make assumptions and travel a path that will diverge as further learning is gained. There are times our assumptions are correct and there are times they are not regardless of how far along the path we are or what our name may be. Just some observations from a fellow blacksmith who truly just wants us all to do the best work we can. It has been a complaint of some working smiths who used to contribute to this site that they found themselves being shouted down by the fan base of particular "internet personality" smiths. But I guess that's the internet for you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianbrazealblacksmith Posted March 31, 2014 Author Share Posted March 31, 2014 Very nice piece, Dan P!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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