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I Forge Iron

A nagging feeling


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I've been making a few generic items like candle holders and fire pokers to go on my first stall this weekend but I've got a nagging feeling that some of the bits I've been making aren't very relevant in the 21st century and (for want of a better word) could be considered as "luxury" items, which isn't ideal during an economic slump.

 

I admit that I'm a pessimist but even still I can't see anyone impulse buying a candle holder whilst we're still coming out of a recession and I expect I'll make more money out of my £4 keyring bottle openers than I will my £10 candle holders - that's if I sell anything at all.

 

For future reference can anyone suggest some household items that are relevant and useful in the 21st century? I think toilet roll holders might be a good one, regardless of technological developments everyone still needs the loo!

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unless you are serving industry then pretty much everything you make is going to be a luxury and priced as such.
Dont fight it.
Make the most of it.


One of the biggest problems with beginning blacksmiths is that they imagine that they are selling to them selves.
People still have money and have a need to spend some of it to feel good about themselves.
Have a trip to Selfridges or liberties and see exactly how much things do cost in the real world.
underpricing as well as overpricing will put people off of buying something.
Its taken me a long time to work out pricing for myself, if you can get this sorted early on it makes it easier in the long run.

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Cheers Basher.

One of the biggest problems with beginning blacksmiths is that they imagine that they are selling to them selves.

Yeah I can relate to that. I've found myself asking myself "would I pay X amount for that?" and the answer is nearly always no because I'm flat broke.

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It's not unusual for your first, second and third times to do a show to have that feeling.  Just have a good selection of different items to appeal to different groups.  What you make is decorative, people will buy it because it is hand made even though it is cheaper to get some foreign made item.  Listen to what people ask you, what they want.  Make those for the next time.  Don't think your going to "hit it out of the park" your first time, just believe you'll make it to first. ;)

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From what I've seen in a prior post your prices are very reasonable.  Where I am located, I think I would even be charging more.  It's hard for me to price my things because I usually ask myself what I'd pay.  What seems to work is to look around and see what the going rate is for similar items, and to consider how long it took to make, any materials on my end and what rate I'm trying to make.  If it's something new and it took longer than you can reasonably charge I adjust it to what I think it should take to make.  What we make isn't going to sell to everyone, it's a niche market.

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Your broke because you are not charging enough and your not charging enough because your broke. 

I see your point but that's not the case for me, my case is a boring and long winded story centered around 8 years of poor health. I will desperately try not to slip into the Catch 22 you describe though!

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Research, Research, Research.  Before spending $$$/LLL on material to make items that may have frequent flyer miles before they sell, go and look to sell what others are selling or are not selling.  We love to make things that we like to see or like to make but we are not doing the buying.

 

The Best Smith/Craftsman is generally the Poorest Business Person.

 

I vote for the Pokers!  Candles are expensive, generally come in glass jars(in the US) and without candles holders are less than useful. 

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I've been looking at bath and kitchen items. Things like TP holders, towel bars and robe hooks, pot racks and trivets ( sp?) Paper towel holders, more hooks....

 

I agree that in a poor economy people don't have a lot of disposable income, but they still often buy small items for the home.

 

I try to stay away from shepherds crooks since they use a lot of material and you can buy the cheap imported ones for less than I can buy the material. Wall mounted pot holders for plants seemed to have some interest however, along with plant hanger hooks. Both are small and inexpensive and don't use a ton of material for the smaller ones. Horse people love horse shoe stuff. While a lot of what I make in that area is all electric arc welded, I try and mix it up with some hand made stuff. Horse people almost always have money and are more than willing to spend it on tack hooks, gate latches, shelf brackets etc as long as it looks "horsey", usually including horse shoes. Premade shoes are fairly cheap and can give you a few items that add profit even if they aren't hand forged.

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Hoofpicks forged from half a horseshoe with the handle end forged into a stylized horses head are are a good seller here.

Got any heavy horse folks out there?  Extra large hoofpicks for them seem to be a market with some room in it!

 

Also no guarentee that the demand will be the same from event to event much less year to year.  I had one item I thought would sell well and sold 1 in two years; I was going to drop it but added it in for a show I was low on stock for and sold out---at the original price! (I was going to clearence them; but I didn't have time to switch the tags before they were flying off the table...)

 

I find whimiscal items often sell better than utilitarian items---as there are sources for utilitarian items.  Any chance to get some restoration contacts?  Things like shutter dogs can be a good bread and butter item if you get in with them.

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The people with money are not affected by the "slump", not much anyway, it's all relative.  

 

Pokers and fire sets not relevant? I'm selling more of these than I have in the 6 years I've been making a living doing this. Why? People are spending big money on having new woodburners put into their houses- and they want a nice set to go with it. 

 

You just have to find your market. This can take a lot of work marketing. Finding a good niche helps (I'm still searching for my niche!!) Has taken me all the time I've been doing this to come up with a product line that sells, trial and error, pretty much everything sells in the end, but you know it's a winner when it sells straight away. 

 

I think in reality the money is generally not in the little items, it's in the big stuff. 

 

:)

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I can vouch for humming bird feeder hangers, funny thing, if you actually buy the feeder and put it on the display, it will sell better, people are mostly visual. I keep a couple feeders on hand because some people want the hanger and the feeder, just add the cost of the feeder to your price.

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My experience has been you never know what will sell on a particular day, same location, different week and a whole different interest.

As Thomas says you can have several items that sit for a long time with minimal interest and one day they become the best seller you have.

Price your work depending on the amount of work/time/materials invested and stick to the price. If you go to markets with a higher end crowd and higher end vendors you have a better opportunity to sell higher end work. If you go to bargin sale type events, people are looking to spend nothing for something. 

We made the mistakes of going to a few bargin type sales and got frustrated with the bargin hunters looking to pay pennies for a piece. Bet most of them would be insulted if I asked them to do their job for pennies an hour.

 

I could babble for a long time on oopses we made, but will spare you.

 

Mark

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Cheers for the tips people. There's lots of horsey people in this area so that's a market I could tap into.
I like the sound of bird feeders - very useful but also slightly different!
I'd been thinking of towel rails and such - put a couple simple hooks on them & you've got a pots and pans rail too.
Yep Thomas I certainly do have a contact in the restoration field - my Dad is an architect specialising in the restoration & conservation of historic & listed buildings. I should give him a handful of business cards to leave with his clients.
Colleen, I guess I say that pokers aren't so relevant because I look at my parents & see that they've got 2 inglenook fireplaces - one with a wood burner in it - and how do they heat their house? Central heating.
Door stops and backscratchers could be good I think.

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Joel: Pricing is always a thing. Not too expensive luxury items are important during a recession, folk need to be able to splurge on things to feel better so having some nice little pretties to show off is a good thing. Personally I think your prices are on the low side of fair but I don't know your market at all. Just keep at it and be flexible.

 

Frosty The Lucky.

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Joel, if your dad can give you an entry into the restoration/reproduction market you could have a licence to print money right there.

 

My reasoning behind this is that most people who are prepared to restore a building to "original" condition have factored to cost of restoration into their purchase, you just need to let it be know that there is a blacksmith who can reproduce the original ironwork, or repair what is there, for a reasonable price. 

 

Your reasonable price should include:

COSTS

  • time (including inspection, research, quoting, manufacture, driving, telephoneing, (think like a lawyer)) and remember to include everything but deduct six minutes for going to the toilet each time
  • cost of materials (steel, fittings, sandpaper, paint, fuel)
  • cost of production (electricity, insurance, rates, taxes, anything that costs you)

Add all of the above up then put your

 

PROFIT       margin on.  This is the bit that makes you money, remember that!

 

Add in any levies or taxes that apply and you should have a final

 

PRICE =

 

This is where maturity, judgement, experience, etc, etc come into it.  Personally it has taken me ages to get to grips with adding up ALL the COSTS and judging the TIME part correctly (I tend to underestimate by a 50% factor when building something for the first time.) YMMV.

 

If you can get into what a lot of the restoration people want it can be a very lucrative market without gouging them on price, just don't get taken for a ride on any job and you should od OK

 

Andrew

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One of the little things that I had good luck with back in the day was a wrought iron key fob.  Oddly enough, people (especially hippies) loved the wood-grain texture and wanted a little bit to show their friends, so buying a $5 key fob was an easy decision for them.

 

The hard part was finding wrought iron with a really gnarly grain.  The better quality stuff just didn't sell because it didn't have that sexy visual.

 

If you use a strong acid to etch the WI, drop in a penny or two.  The copper will bond with the WI and give you a very neat effect.

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Under pricing can negatively effect sales in some cases. I learned this early on when dealing with horses. Occasionally I acquire a horse, and not being a horse trader I world try to pass it on for what I thaught was fair based on what it was. I'd get no interest in a $500 horse, but if I asked $2500 there would be a lot of interest.
I figue that they want to know what's wrong with the horse at $500, wile I just don't have much in it, saint it a good home, and don't want to feed it.
The same thing aplies to your hand forged work. It's pride and bragging rights. If it took an hour of your time to build, don't be afraid to ask $60, that said, if the first on took 2 hours and the 10th took 1 hour the 1 hour is probably the fair price.

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As to $60 shops rate, that's what a mechanic, or welder is charging in my neck of the woods, labor, profit and overhead. Yes profit is ontop of labor. Doesn't matter if its a hired hand or your sweat. Occasionally I get hired to help local welders with fabrication projects, I can produce some of the custome hardware faster than they can, so paying me for an hour or two to fabricate gate latches or heavy hinges actually increases there profit margin.
Unless you are using exotic steels, I usually chalk up materials and fuel under overhead.

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Try some long fancy fire pokers for campfires and backyard fire pits.  I have sold custom ones for  $150 -$200,   When sitting around a fire people like to mess with the fire.  You cannot buy long ones in the big box stores.  A nice handmade fire poker is a good conversation piece and people will pay well for them either as a treat for themselves or as a gift. 

 

DON'T make the mistake of trying to compete with the big box stores on price because you will starve if you try.  You are selling  the sizzle not the steak and/or far better quality.   In the $20-50 fire poker market you are selling the "I bought this from the blacksmith who made it".   In the $150-$1000 fire poker you are selling both the "I bought this from the blacksmith who made it" and look at the quality/uniqueness of this fire poker. 

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"DON'T make the mistake of trying to compete with the big box stores on price because you will starve if you try."

 

 

This is excellent advice, ... and I'd take it a step further, by advising that you shy away from items that can be, in any way, compared to inport trash.

 

Too many people just can't tell the difference, ... and you'll go crazy trying to educate them.

 

 

 

 

.

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Cheers folks. Interesting what you say about profit on top of labour, Charles, especially in conjunction with what Colleen says about niches & big items.

Bowls are my thing (aesthetically & functionally) and when I'm starting the sinking process on a 4mm sheet bowl by swinging my 6lbs raising hammer for 2 or more hours, the thought does cross my mind that the price of this bowl should be greater than the hourly rate I have in my head.

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