Extra blows

[forgemaster]

Re hammer sizes when I started my apprenticeship back in the eightlys the 1st week the boss handed me a ball pein, saying "use that for all anvil work this week". next week I was handed a 4 lb hammer "use that until I tell you to change", 2 weeks later I was handed a 6lb and told "you use a 6lb for all anvil forging unless you are working something like 3/8 round then you can use a 4lb, I see you using a smaller hammer than you should, I am gonna foot your rear. If a 6 isnt big enough use an 8lb handhammer, if you need more, get one of us to strike for you with a 14lb sledge". And that was that, training finished. We used to set heaps of truck springs by hand on the anvil every day. If you didnt harden up by the end of the 1st month you would'nt be there at the end of the 2nd month. This was in a little shop in the foothills of the Great Dividing Range west of Coffs Harbour on the NSW North coast, we had 2 fires 2 anvils a 25 ton press, one arc welder, an oxy set, a manual spring eye roller,an oil quencing tub and a cut off saw, and that was about it, general blacksmiths, spring makers, agricultural engineers
and steel fabricators. It was a good start to my working life.

Phil

[David Gaddis]

Please remember that Alec weighs less than a full sack of potatoes. He also weilds that 5 pounder all day without a disgruntling rebound. His address to a striking position is even more impressive. Should he have lifted the sledge just a little off-handed then he would fall over. Many of us are appreciative to be able to watch him smith. And it is not only his strength and toughness, as he owns the ability to properly instruct those that will watch and listen.



Carry on

[CaptainSpaulding]

Hello all. One more thought on the anvil tapping. In my experience, if you use the hammer like you are 'throwing' the head at the work like some smiths talk about, you have a very light grip on the hammer and when I do the occasional tapping, its to readjust my grip on the hammer, either to correct for minor twisting from poorly aligned hits around the axis of the handle, or to make minor adjustments along the length of the handle when I feel that my grip is sliding back from the balance point of the handle, making my wrist "radial deviators" (as we say in the physical therapy field) work harder when picking up the hammer for the next blow. Which, if unreasolved, will give a good case of tendonitis.

I also do this to adjust my grip on handles of hammers that don't fit my hand very well. I've got rather long, skinny fingers and skinnier handled hammers make me adjust more.

This is the same reason I do it (and I've only been doing this for exactly 10 days). If I keep the same grip for the entire duration while I'm striking I'm guaranteed to get blisters on my not-yet-toughened-up hands. As you said, letting the hammer head rest on the face of the anvil allows for a quick release of the handle and then a re-grip, all in a single motion. Over time (again, 10 days) the quickness of that motion has already developed into what looks like extra blows but in reality has an actual function. I've chopped down quite a few trees and pounded a lot of things into the ground and I do the same thing with the axe/sledge either on the ground or by resting part of the handle on my leg.

[Dan P.]

I am a tapper because I like to make music and allow a little bit of beauty and pleasure into my life.
If you want efficiency go and buy a CNC machine or pick up a components catalogue.

[george m.]

Dear Dan,

Unless it was tuned to a particular note by the manufacturer I have never found an anvil's ring to be musical. Not necessarily unpleasant but not musical. In response to your comment about being efficient I'd say that if you want music in your shop, buy a player and CDs. That's what I did.

Unmusically,
George M.

PS I have a mental vision of some guy at the anvil factory testing each anvil against a tuning fork and if one doesn't match he rejects it or instructs someone to file some metal off the heel. ;-)

GM

[Dan P.]

Maybe it's time to let a little beauty and pleasure (and rythm) into your life then, George!

[Ricko13]

A CNC doing 400+ inches a minute is music to my ears though....

An anvil as that same effect come to think of it. Where's my tuning fork.....

[Dan P.]

A CNC doing 400+ inches a minute is music to my ears though....

An anvil as that same effect come to think of it. Where's my tuning fork.....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_of_the_spheres

[Ricko13]

http://en.wikipedia...._of_the_spheres

That's deep...

[natkova]

Sorry for bringing old topic but  i heard your hammer get hot, loos temper if you constantly hit hot metal with it that way you need to tap on anvil i mean that empty blow.

Like when you are drifting and you put drift in water to cool it off before it loose temper.

 

[Glenn]

The empty blow of the hammer to the anvil is to keep the rhythm of hammering for the blacksmith.

When you are drifting, there is much more time and contact between the drift and the hot metal, so the heat transfers to the drift.  Cooling the drift after each 3 hammer blows keeps the tool cool and at working temperature.

[Daswulf]

I found myself tapping here and there as Glenn mentioned, to keep rythem and get a quick look and to think about my workpiece. "Is that enough, what is the next move, keep moving while the piece is hot."

It all depends on what I am making. Sometimes there are no extra taps.   

[George N. M.]

Nat, I seriously doubt that your hammer will pick up enough heat to draw any temper.  I have never been aware of my hammer getting that hot, a bit warm perhaps but never too hot to touch.  The hammer is in contact with the hot steel for a brief fraction of a second and in the cooling air for much longer as you raise it an take your next swing.

Drifting is a different story.  The drift is in contact with hot metal for a much longer time and any temper will be drawn from the drift.  That is why, ideally, drifts are untempered and made of a tough variety of steel.

BTW, I see I was in this previous thread 10 years ago.  I was here then and took a hiatus in the latter part of Martha's illness and when I came back I had to change my handle from "George M." to "George N. M."

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

PS I rarely tap between blows, as in almost never.  I usually find it to be wasted time and energy.  If I pause, it is at the top of my swing.

[George N. M.]

PPS  I just went back and reread the entire thread.  Interesting discussion.  I am surprised that I seem to be the only survivor of the thread that is still posting on IFI.  We've lost Frank Turley and Alec Steele seems to have moved on to making You Tube videos full time.

GNM

[Frosty]

I don't "tap" the anvil with the hammer except if I'm distracted or lost in thought. Or when working with a striker as a start end signal. A couple guys who've struck my anvil some harder than a "tap" to make their point (whatever it was) later complained their hammers had flat spots that needed to be dressed out. 

Just letting a hammer fall from a few inches is no problem but a missed blow leaves a mark on the  hammer. It's a HARD anvil.

Frosty The Lucky.

[anvil]

I recommend you go back to page 1 on this post and read what Frank Turley has to say. He is spot on.

[Hefty]

I have heard a lot of the points in this thread before and I have not previously been a "tapper" but I read through the thread yesterday and then had to straighten out some strainer wire on my puny, little ASO for a birthday decoration I've been working on.  I consciously/intentionally tried it as I was moving the wire to where I needed to hit it. I think I might start doing it more often! Even for only light taps between light blows to straighten wire, I found the extra split second for moving the wire and the extra rebound to return the hammer to the top of the swing really made a difference. I'm not gonna start tapping out rhythms or tapping every second swing, but I want to develop a feel for how and when it will be of most benefit to me.

I also acknowledge that it's very much a personal preference thing, YMMV, etc, but I "get it" more, now that I have felt the difference, not just discussed it.

cheers,

Jono.

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

I don't tap the anvil consistently, however when I'm getting tired and my mild case of arthritis in my fingers start to act up, I will relax my grip and let the hammer fall on the anvil which does make it ring with several rebounds. Then I pick up where I left off after the steel is hot again.

I sure miss Frank Turley's posts and wisdom. 

[anvil]

Ditto

 

[natkova]

Does that blow damage anvil?

 

[JHCC]

No.

[natkova]

I tought it does make some dent in it?

 

[anvil]

Depends on how hard you hit it,,,A resting blow, another name for what we are talking about is not a forging blow.