Craft Fairs and booth fees

[george m.]

Dear All,

This past weekend I had my ironwork booth at an Irish Festival. It was a nice event but the attendance isn't what I expected. I don't think it was advertised well enough.

I did about $600 in sales, which was OK, but the booth fee of $275 ate, in my opinion, too much of that.

I am wondering how others balance the issues of booth fees, expected attendance, and expected sales when deciding what event to attend. I am starting to form an opinion that the booth fee shouldn't be any higher than 20-25% of expected sales.

Realistically anticipating sales is something that I do not have enough experience to estimate accurately. I know that at one particular SCA event, based on 3 years experience, that I can anticipate sales in dollars of about 80% or so of attendance. e.g. If there are 1000 folk through the gate I will do about $800 in sales.

Any comments, experiences, suggestions, etc. will be appreciated.

Economically,
George M.

[VolcanoForge]

I don't sell at craft fairs but I have quite a bit of experience with gun shows. I work for a promoter and sit at the door. Generally year to year at the different show locations the door numbers are the same. Keeping notes and records for all the different venues you sell at will help. I would talk with the other vendors and see what shows are great and which ones are not. That might help a little when deciding what shows to attend. Ensuring with the promoter that you are the only blacksmith at a show might help too.

[Grundsau]

I have found the best way to judge the potential of an event is to be part of it at least once.
If it doesn't pan out then scratch that event for next season.
After you start doing shows you will get a feel for the events that advertise and/or have good followings.

If I am demo'ing I refuse to pay any fees except to one non-profit that I've been with for 16 years. Their fee, just instituted this year is $10.

This is the first year that I am paying fees over $50 to sell at a show.
The following are all selling venues for this season:
One 2 day event was $100 and I sold a bot over $1000 worth of merchandise.
The next one is a traditional Artisan show and is $150 for 6 hours. I've been trying to get access to this show for a long time and hope to do well.
Our county guild of craftsmen have a Christmas show coming up which is two days for $175.00.
They are jurying my work at the show for guild membership and I'm joining their group for the prestige.
That show should do well.

Some tin smith friends of ours (who are in the same guild) tell me the show fee should be no more than 10% of what you expect to make.

[Steve Sells]

If one is just setting at a craft fair selling, Payment is required, but if bringing the forge and working all day, they pay us.

[nuge]

I agree with the 10% rule. However, you have to take in account the commissions that trickle in after the tents have been rolled up and put away. Make sure you advertise your practical skills and have your photo album of past works front and center.

[mtforge]

I do over 20 shows a year. When I'm at an indoor show(can't demonstrate) I'm just another vendor. When I'm at an outdoor show and demonstrating I either get in for free or get a cut rate, usually about half off. The show this weekend was $90. This is half of the vendors fee. It's the most I pay to go to any show. But it has been a VERY good show in the past. I've seen pirate festivals or other such that want to charge me $200 - $300 for the weekend but that's not going to happen. I have to figure in the time and material to prebuild some products, load the trailer, cost to travel there and back, time/material and living expenses while there. I've never wanted to be a starving artist and if you've seen me you'll see I don't miss too many meals.

[nuge]

i really don't get the demonstrating thing. You are there to sell your work right? If you are working you have no time to field any queries from buyers. Seems like shooting yourself in the foot to me. And you are there to sell "your work", right? Well, if people can see you sweating right in front of them I think they are way less apt to spend, they just saw you do it for free! In an art fair situation you are the gallery, the sales team. You can talk about process but you should be selling an item, not giving away a demo.

I do see the other side, people see the amazing process and maybe are more apt to buy. But I still think you get more action by paying attention to your customers than working. I work enough.

[george m.]

Dear Nuge,

I find it impossible to demonstrate AND sell at the same event. If you are going to demonstrate you need a 2d person to run the sales. That is probably the ideal situation. The demo draws folk to your booth and convinces them that, yes, you really did make everything that you have for sale. I have had some folk be almost resistant to the idea that you are selling what you have made rather than retailing something made by someone else. So few people are "makers" any more that people find the idea of a craftsman selling his or her own work to be unusual. I was asked at a recent event whether anything on my table was my work and when I said that it all was the person was obviously surprised.

I haven't done any demos in recent years because of the hassle and work of dragging a forge and anvil around and because my wife has difficulty in being responsible for the table because she has health problems.

If I was demoing and was negotiating with the event organizer I would ask them what arrangement they had with other entertainers such as bands, dancers, etc.. I would ask for the same arrangement. A demo is, plain and simple, entertainment. A smith will be performing pretty much all day while the other entertainers usually only perform for certain periods of time. A organizer who won't recognize this should be passed by.

Entertainingly,
George M.

[Grundsau]

When I was first starting out it was novel to demo at lots of events.
After a few years i grew out of that. LOL
When demo'ing I don't give anything away, that could quickly get out of hand with freebies.
You guys who demo, you don't work all day do you? I normally make a small item and take a break to answer questions and/or take care of customers.
If I see a pending sale in the middle of a project, work stops, item gets sold and I go back to work.

If it was a busy event, I'd ask my wife to help out by watching the tables.
I demo at three events and that's it. One of them is for students at the local high school so there is really no chance of selling.

I often hear responses of appreciation and awe when attendees learn that I created all the items on our tables.
Whether I am there to only sell or otherwise doesn't seem to matter.

Much as I don't like dragging around the forge and anvil, twice in the past 10 months they got me free advertising in the local paper.

[mtforge]

i really don't get the demonstrating thing. You are there to sell your work right? If you are working you have no time to field any queries from buyers.

It's probably unheard of but I can work and talk at the same time. I can even explain each step and then show it around the crowd so everyone can see it as it's made. I have seen that if the anvil is ringing I get a crowd, not as much when it's quiet. Plus I love what I'm doing. I have heard more than one person complain because the other blacksmiths at the event never do anything so they come to me. Also I can get some work done for the table or a custom order as needed. And you get to be the village blacksmith for other show participants. Repair items, straighten as needed or make that skewer fork they forgot so they can make supper.
I do work all day except I'll sit down to eat a sandwich at lunch time. When I'm at the home shop I work all day so it's no different. If I go to a small show I go by myself. I stop if someone wants to buy something or has questions on certain items. Usually I'll have someone with me to watch the table/desk and answer questions on items. This weekend I'll have two in the tent as it's a bigger show. I have up to three in the tent and/or out at the displays at the bigger shows.
I have the system of dragging around the forge and items for sale down pretty well. Three hour setup and two hour tear down with the helpers.
Anybody that's close come on over and check it out http://www.mississinewa1812.com/

[mtforge]

In my area my prices are in the middle. Lower than some and higher than others. I do time studies and with overhead and metal cost come up with a price for wholesale and retail that makes the shop rate I want. Having worked in factories I have an idea or two on how to make things.
I have one fulltime employee in the shop who also goes to some shows. When needed I bring my wife, daughter or grandson as needed.

[ThomasPowers]

Personally I only do tentstakes when the metal is essentially free at the scrap yard. If you cut at a sharp angle the point is almost done so making a bunch of stakes is *fast* so instead of saying "you're willing to forge a tent stack for $1.80?" say "you're willing to make $80 an hour???" Sounds different doesn't it?

production is a whole nother mindset than hobby work!

[John B]

I agree with the 10% rule. However, you have to take in account the commissions that trickle in after the tents have been rolled up and put away. Make sure you advertise your practical skills and have your photo album of past works front and center.

I would just like to add take and distribute, plenty of business cards and/or leaflets.

[FieryFurnace]

My experience thus far is art shows that are juried, that must be applied to several months in advance, that run close to a $300 booth fee, and are in artsy and/or wealthy area, are good bets.

Demonstrating helps sell your work! Try to demo, but NEVER pay an additional fee for your demo space.

If I don't sell over $1000 of work on site and get some custom orders or leads to bring back to the shop, I don't go back!

I'm doing a show this weekend, and I'm probably carting something like $3000 - $4000 worth of iron work.

The key to selling a lot of work is to have a lot of work. Have a lot of variety. Odds-n-ends under $50.00 sell! Take a few higher priced items like pot racks or firescreens. You might sell it on site, but it's more to attract attention and custom orders.

[David Gaddis]

Maybe I am wrong. One on the people I looked up to in all smithings segments told me in so many words "demo for a fee. but never demo how to make the items you are selling to the same people."

He explained that many potential buyers would think that making a certain smithing project to not be worth that amount when they witnessed the smith creating the item. everyone know some shortcuts on a project, and yes they save time.

So i am all for the demo guy, and for the smith making a living. I do not understand how you would be able to demo and sell at the same time...properly.


Carry on

[mtforge]

Then let me rephrase the question: why would you sell so cheaply? I've done the math and your shop rate must be around $25 an hour not counting travel and show expenses. Just to earn a bare bones living, my shop rate is $50 and on custom, it's as high as I can get the client to part with.

"Prices in the middle", who sells 18" 1/2 square tent stakes for less then $2.80 If I made them, steel alone would cost around a $1 So you're saying you're willing to forge a tent stack for $1.80?

My apologizes if I sound like I'm attacking you, but I'm dumbfounded anyone would sell this craft for so little.

Actually my shop rate is higher than yours. I would also find a new steel supplier if you can't get steel cheaper than that. As far as forging a tent stake for $1.80 each it would depend on how many I could make in an hour. I definitely make over your shop rate on tent stakes. I sell 8", 10", 13" 18" and even some custom stakes for people. In a years time I make almost 5,000 tent stakes. I don't feel that you're attacking me. More that you may not know how we work in my shop.

[mtforge]

Maybe I am wrong. One on the people I looked up to in all smithings segments told me in so many words "demo for a fee. but never demo how to make the items you are selling to the same people."

He explained that many potential buyers would think that making a certain smithing project to not be worth that amount when they witnessed the smith creating the item. everyone know some shortcuts on a project, and yes they save time.

So i am all for the demo guy, and for the smith making a living. I do not understand how you would be able to demo and sell at the same time...properly.


Carry on

In your mind what is "properly"? We might have a difference of opinion on what a demo is. I don't make a large project that takes a lot of time to do. Where I go the public gets bored easily. I can do an eight minute leaf for school days or lid lifters, forks, skewers, gun hooks, heart hooks and so on during the regular days. This lets me stop and talk when I want. My forge and anvil is front and center so I have a lot of fun with the crowd. I don't go to "art" shows I go to rendezvous and reenactments. My items are not one of a kind. They have the price tagged so they know what they're getting into. We have catalogs to handout so they can look it over and come back with their shopping list. The items I make are in use all over the camp so the camp becomes my sales people by referring people to me.

[yesteryearforge]

mtforge
It appears to me that you have a good common sense grasp of the business side of this.

[Grundsau]

Dave, how do you transport that much inventory when going to a show?

[KYBOY]

We do a few small shows, mostly because my family has done it for years and years..Though the rest of my family are woodworkers..i grew up working with wood not metal..I didnt start working metal until I was about 15..By then i had already been working as a woodbutcher for about 6-7 years...
So my family has been selling wood at craft fairs and such for decades..when I started teaching my wife metal she said "hey Im going to start setting up with your family"...Well it worked out better than I expected..
Still craft fairs only account for a small % of her sales..Though she wants to up this coming year..LOL, shes working on quarterly tax's right now..

[ThomasPowers]

David; I find that funny as I am almost guaranteed a sale when I demo an item. In fact they want the items I made in front of them and not the identical thing I made in the morning before people showed up! Even if the earlier one has a better finish on it as I had more time to let a finish dry.

[jason0012]

I had a rough time with craft fairs until I upped my inventory. I would take at a minimum $10,000 worth of inventory to a show. I have sold out a few shows and its not cool to sell out and not have enough income to make the trip worthwhile! I considered any show where I averaged less than$2000 a dayto be a bust. It takes a lot to pack up and go set up at a show and there are only so many weekends you can do in a year. I would only set up at jurried shows, and my booth fees were usually $350-$700 for a three day show. Back in the begining I did demo at the shows. While that is a lot of fun it is a lot of work and makes it pretty hard to watch the booth and entertain the crowd. I never did very well sales wise when demonstrating even with booth help. I always found that it seemed to be too much distraction and too much hassel. I would never set up to demo at a show that did not at the very least wave the booth fee. I was in business to sell ironwork and not to provide entertainment at various events. I also found that any event where the crafts were an afterthought such as music festivals were not good venues. I spent about ten years living off of various fairs and shows. The above are my rules for picking shows, but the last one I exhibited at was in the spring of 04 and was a bit of a dud. I noticed then that people just werent spending like they used to. I'm not sure if things have improved or not but many of the artists I used to exhibit with have gone on to sell through other venues.

[bigfootnampa]

On pointing tent stakes: I like to cut the ends square and then heat the point end quite hot, then I square point it with heavy blows (hand hammering) so that the core of the metal bulges out on the tip (kind of the reverse of fish lips). The resulting semi-blunt points with rounded ends seem to find their way through hidden rocks in the soil with less trouble and less damage ( a sharp point will curl instead of sliding around the rocks). I usually refine the tips by slightly beveling the corners while I still have some heat. I am not currently attempting to sell any because I am too slow to make any money that way... but I do make nice stakes! I point the ends pretty fast too... but I like to do some fancy work on the other ends. Scrap rebar is pretty reasonably priced here, even from scrap dealers, and the deformations make the stakes hold well in softer soils. I hope you'll forgive me for digressing a bit, but if we don't discuss these things when they pop up we may never get to them and lose the opportunity to share good ideas and info.

[John McPherson]

Know something about the venue, and who your competition will be. Tailor your stock and prices to the clientele: you will sell different things to a crowd of t-shirts and tattoos than one of ties and evening gowns.

I have two friends who are both full-time, independent smiths with small shops. One is a Journeyman bladesmith, the other an ornamental iron guy. And when they set up at Celtic festivals and the like, they are always outsold 10:1 by the guys selling trashy import blades in cardboard boxes and goober-welded cut & paste ironwork out of the King Architectural catalog.

[hildenmw]

10% exspense is a good guide. When asked to demo . I use clay and a rr track anvil and make it interactive with customers. Get in free or discounted. Trial and error to find a good show. Fig out what sales look for new items to make listen to what people ask for. Talk to other vendors about shows. Some places are large draws but they come to look. Others are buying shows. I've found art walks to be good this year.
Marc