It takes money to blacksmith !!!!

[Wayne]

I have noticed that things are getting more exspensive nowadays, just looking on e-bay and seeing the prices that tools are fetching compared with a year or two ago.
Likewise going to farm auctions/collective sales you see a lot of scrappies wandering around and picking things up to see how heavy they are. With scrap values it is worth their while to lay out the cash, so often you see nice bits of kit going to be shipped to China :(

[clinton]

Ya- it makes me laugh every time I click on a craigslist add for an anvil and read about someone looking for a "Large anvil" "Cheap" they want to pay $100.00 for a large anvil 200+ pounds. There was even a guy who wanted to trade home made granola for an anvil

[Naz]

One thing that annoys me is when I hear someone (seller) tell me "I saw one just like it on ebay for such and such...
What they don't know is that it has been on ebay, sometimes for years and hasen't sold. And probably won't until the person finally realizes his $400.00 anvil may not be worth $850.00 after all.

[pkrankow]

Now that I have my basics: anvil, forge, post vise, tongs, hammers, basic tooling...this is a lot of fun for fairly little cost, as long as I stay in the driveway (when I get the chance to light up a fire, this is a hobby, making money is nice, but not the goal)

Anvil $200
vise $50
Tooling ? probably $500 or so, easily more that I purchased
Champion blower $75 (I got lucky)
fuel (I prefer corn, so about $10/50#, but also use charcoal and coal)
brake drum forge (made from junk)
home made propane forge $300
propane fuel

Looking to build a detached garage for a workshop, bill of materials is about $5000...

OK, maybe not so cheap.

Phil

[JNewman]

I agree with almost all of what has been said, and I have tens of thousands of tools here in my shop, including tens of thousands of dollars of sweat equity in dedicated tooling and time put into setting up my big hammer and building my smaller one. I also have I think you need to spend the cash if you are looking at blacksmithing as a career. Probably as much as possible up front.

BUT !! I have to disagree with the thread title for a hobbyist smith. If you are willing to scrounge and make do with minimal equipment you can get STARTED pounding iron AS A HOBBY with a minimal investment. Look at some what some of the primitive equipment people are making a living with in other parts of the world. More and better equipment only make things easier and more efficient.

I started out about 22 years ago with very little money to spend on blacksmithing. I went to an auction where there was forge listed for sale, It was rusted out and was one of the only things at this auction that went for a lot of money, what I did buy was a small cast aluminum vacuum cleaner for $2 I bought a new tin barbecue for about $15 on sale at Canadian tire and then about $15 of plumbing fittings. I then bought a piece of i beam for an anvil (not the best choice) for $20 and I bought a bag of coal which I don't remember the price. I drilled some holes in the pipe fittings, cut a hole in the bottom of the barbeque that I stuck the pipe through lined the barbeque with clay dug from the garden, stuck some 2x4 legs on it and duct taped the vacuum cleaner to the pipe t and started forging. I used a ball pein hammer and vice grips that I already had.

Without a lot of scrounging I was started for around $50. None of my equipment was optimal and all but that ball pein (with a new handle) are long gone, as I made a little money I bought better tools.

By all means buy the best tools if you can afford it, hey I want everyone to buy at least one of my swage blocks, and my firepots are much better than my old barbeque forge. But if you are financially challenged you can get started and then gradually replace your tools by buying and making better ones.

[John Larson]

I think we need to look at our metalworking outlays as investments in fun, even if we are beyond being hobby smiths. As JNewman and others have emphasized we can start small and most of us have started out very small. We buy more tools when we know what we want/need. Many of us have scrounged at flea markets and auctions and at hammer-in tailgating areas. Stuff accumulates. Then the rollovers begin where we sell the original stuff and buy better stuff. And finally we sell out, perhaps at sacrifice pricing. We have along the way invested in our skills and hobby and possibly business, but we have had fun And I'll betcha for most of us the fun per dollar has been way more than, say, going to movies and the usual fun fare. I just returned from BGOP's Spring Fling and just shopping in the tailgating area was fun. Furthermore, hammering is therapeutic = good for what ails you.

[MOblacksmith0530]

Okay I gotta pipe in here a bit.
First @ Beth, you are a woman so a lot of guys get a chivalrous(sp) towards a woman smith and want to help her out, That is not wrong just the way things are enjoy it, I a 6'6" smith and when I do demo's out and about the food vendors just know that I have to fix something for them and they feed me real good cause I am big enough to look like I am hungry I guess. I accept it and enjoy it, I just did a demo at our local Tartan days festival and some of the best food of the ilses I have had since I was there in the early 80's
Getting started in smithing is expensive but it depends on how far you go as to how much you spend. I got started for 125 dollats. I bought a used up no name farriers anvil for 75. I found a friend that tried it and gave it up and bought his forge and a few hand tools for 20, I bought some coal for 20, and a leg vise for 20. I was pure amateur and it showed but I read Bealer book and started to learn. After a couple years of that I decided to get serious because it had become my passion. I am a part time smith, but have invested enough to go pro if the money comes through between the building and equipment iI am probably in the neighbor hood of 18,000 spent, and 25 to 30,000 in value.
So in sumary
It is not a cheap hobby to get into, but if you are patient it can be done. If you are serious and want to go pro the investment is greater either in time (and luck to find a deal) or in dollars/pounds/loonies to get setup.
I have actually gotten to a point where I loaned that farriers anvil to a young man who is interested and if he sticks with it and learns the trade I will leave it with him. We all try to help out others who are less fortunate than we are whether it is materails skill or whatever. That is one of the things I find most beautiful about our craft.

[MOblacksmith0530]

Geez I really need to reread my posts before I post them. That sounded like a third grader wrote it. Forgive me it was a long day in the shop working on a gate.

[rthibeau]

Glad to see the interest in this thread. And yes, you can start out on the cheap and make do as you go along. But....if you stick with it there will be costs and sometimes only more money will fix it. Just wanted people to be aware.

[Tim McCoy]

As a hobbyist I have collected everything that I need, with the exception of a vise, and built a tiny smithy for less than $250 - I do have a loaner anvil and gas forge that don't get used a lot. Also have about 3000# steel of various shapes/sizes. All found at yard sales, in alleys, abandoned buildings and some gifts from friends. Spent maybe $300 on gasoline for scrounging trips that weren't part of a regular route to the office/store. What I have could be used by any experienced blacksmith to make just about anything - but it is meant for "small" work or one-off stuff.

If I had thoughts of doing production work to make something like a living I would expect to spend at least 30k on tooling ... at least. I would spent at least that much again for marketing. Having owned a couple businesses in the last 30 years I found that "word of mouth" can barely feed you. I admire those who have enough gumption to try to keep making a go of it as a business owner. Lord knows its hard to run a business in the best of times - I don't know how any of you do it today, my hat is off to you. Making tools for my work still could be called fun. Making them to meet a deadline would be too frustrating due the "misused" time. Great thread!!

[ianinsa]

I too have been "lucky" with tooling it seems the harder I work at it and the more I spend the "luckier" I get! :rolleyes:

I think the guys(and girls of course) in England are fortunate as they don't have local steelmills that gobble up vast piles of scrap steel (read fly-presses etc.) every day, and shipping to China/India is a long way. So much of the kit just hangs around longer thus getting kit in general is easier as there is a lot of it "just lying around".

That said I think the average smith is prepared to make do, as that and collecting junk(sorry treasure) is the nature of the beast.
Many say the kit is expensive but don't compare appels with appels--virtually every lathe I have seen in blacksmithshops has been at least 30 years old or some dinky new machine-- on this forum of thousands(both hobbyist and pro) I'll bet less than 1% have a cnc lathe. And probably less than 5% have a cnc press/roller/twister etc. When you start with those you start to get "expensive"

Just my $0.02 worth.

[Timothy Miller]

I too have been "lucky" with tooling it seems the harder I work at it and the more I spend the "luckier" I get! :rolleyes:

I think the guys(and girls of course) in England are fortunate as they don't have local steelmills that gobble up vast piles of scrap steel (read fly-presses etc.) every day, and shipping to China/India is a long way. So much of the kit just hangs around longer thus getting kit in general is easier as there is a lot of it "just lying around".

That said I think the average smith is prepared to make do, as that and collecting junk(sorry treasure) is the nature of the beast.
Many say the kit is expensive but don't compare appels with appels--virtually every lathe I have seen in blacksmithshops has been at least 30 years old or some dinky new machine-- on this forum of thousands(both hobbyist and pro) I'll bet less than 1% have a cnc lathe. And probably less than 5% have a cnc press/roller/twister etc. When you start with those you start to get "expensive"

Just my $0.02 worth.

You cant honesty call your self a blacksmith if you use a CNC press/roller/twister etc... You have firmly entered the realm of fabricator/manufacturer. Not a value judgment just a definition of a word.

[basher]

As someone who is now having to dispose of nearly all my lifetimes (and some of my father's) accumulated tools that all have some use to someone, it will be interesting to see what financial return I will get from them when they go to auction in the very near future, and compare that with the actual cost that I incurred in obtaining and making them.

Here in the UK seems to be very different to the US with regard to the value of older tooling of all descriptions, probably the result of the political revolution where service industries are replacing manufacturing, and the pursuit of maximum money for minimum effort seems to be the mantra,

john,
I would be very reluctant to auction your tools of in one go.
you should have a look on ebay and see what stuff is fetching on an open market . we are cheap in the uk but blackmsiths at an auction are cheaper.....

[basher]

And yes It does take a bit of cash and /or skill and time .

Bladesmithing has been described as the worlds most expensive hobby (I think steam enthusiasts would disagree!!)

[Mark Emig]

As a professional I have a small fortune invested in tooling. But, when I was a hobbyist-newly married-no money-I got set up for very little thanks to the kindness of others looking to help a new hobbyist. I had a "loaner" anvil for 3 or 4 years, $50 post vise and a few pairs of tongs and a "loaner" forge. With very little money (relatively speaking) and equipment you CAN get a start and make some nice stuff, and have a bunch of fun. Fast forward 20 years and 30 thousand dollars, here I am. I have "paid it forward" an occasion helping a newbie-loaned anvils-let them work in my shop-sold post vices for 50 bucks to a person with low dollars for a new hobby. A lot of the high costs of smithing are due to people buying tools, then doubling and tripling their cost to resell and make money (which is OK-everybody's got to eat)-not a fact I care for, but it's the way of the world. Now off my soapbox and get to work.

[Gobae]

It doesn't have to take money to get into blacksmithing.



Bellows wood - scrap
Bellows leather - from the deer from last hunting season
Tuyere - clay from local swamp
Anvil - block of scrap
Hammers - scrap
Stock - scrap & smelted magnetite and/or geothite (also from local swamp)

Cost $0

[ianinsa]

You cant honesty call your self a blacksmith if you use a CNC press/roller/twister etc... You have firmly entered the realm of fabricator/manufacturer. Not a value judgment just a definition of a word.

I think the point I was trying to make is most "blacksmithing equipment is relatively cheap" in comparison to "modern"(ie. up to date) equipment.
I was not intending to start the ludite or not debate again ie. stone tied to stick v powerhammer or forgewelded using sand v tig etc.

[Timothy Miller]

I think the point I was trying to make is most "blacksmithing equipment is relatively cheap" in comparison to "modern"(ie. up to date) equipment.
I was not intending to start the ludite or not debate again ie. stone tied to stick v powerhammer or forgewelded using sand v tig etc.

Neither am I but a blacksmith forges metal hot using their brain and hands to guide the process. I am a professional smith I love technology I have a induction forge air hammer and CAD software. I spend lots of time tiring to set my work apart from mass produced commodity ironwork. I regularly spend hours looking at spread sheets analyzing job costs and quoting. CNC benders hebo machines and the like are not blacksmith tools.

[postleg]

One way to sum it up is if I were to win the powerball or mega millions lotteries. What would I do? I would keepon smithing untill I was broke.

[dablacksmith]

It doesn't have to take money to get into blacksmithing.

Bellows wood - scrap
Bellows leather - from the deer from last hunting season
Tuyere - clay from local swamp
Anvil - block of scrap
Hammers - scrap
Stock - scrap & smelted magnetite and/or geothite (also from local swamp)

Cost $0

time spent isnt money?????

[Neil Blythin]

... And finally we sell out, perhaps at sacrifice pricing.

I have been very, very fortunate to run into this on a couple of occasions. Its how I got my first real anvil, post vise, coal forge, and a whole selection of hammers, punches, etc. not to mention some stock.

When first starting out, I was getting frustrated trying to find all of the 'stuff', and was saving up to buy new, when fate put two older smiths in my path, who were selling out. One was a hobbiest, downsizing; the other a professional who was retiring. In both cases, they wanted the majority of their tools to go to people who would use and appreciate them. They purposely posted ads on Kijiji, craigslist, etc. of things that would only be of interest to a smith (i.e. don't post an anvil for sale - as you'll get the antique dealers & tool collectors). When you arrive, they say "so what else do you need?". They charged prices that were somewhere between very fair, and bargan basement. And I can tell you, it was very much appreciated! The advice they gave while chatting was priceless, and the tools are all being put to good use.

Of course, you can never expect that - but those who are fair when selling off, really do inspire the next generation.

[pkrankow]

time spent isnt money?????

If it is a hobby, for fun, then ...hmm, good question.

If it is for a business, then time is money.

Phil

[Gobae]

time spent isnt money?????

Nope, not when it's a hobby. You're paying an "opportunity cost" (just as with everything you do), but that doesn't necessarily mean literal cash.

[Gundog48]

As someone who has only recently got into blacksmithing, I have to disagree. If you are a hobbyist, you can get away with investing next to nothing, just a little time. A 55 forge is easy to build with an old barrel which you should be able to scrounge for free, some cast-off scaffold poles and some old angle for legs. I had to buy the legs which cost £7. An anvil can be improvised out of some railway track, or a lump of reasonably high carbon steel which I managed to find for free. Alternatively, you could buy a used anvil which cost me £80 for a 1cwt anvil in great condition. A blower can be made, or improvised from a car heater fan like I did, which you should be able to get for free. As for tools, most of us probably have a basic hammer which will allow you to forge the tools you need and eventually forge a better hammer. The materials themselves can normally be acquired by asking round garages and scrapyards. A lot of the time you could get it for free.

In short, for a hobbyist, blacksmithing can cost as little or as much as you want. If you want to save some effort, you can buy bits and pieces, but if you are willing to put in some time and make do with simple gear, you could do it for next to nothing. Sure, you may want to upgrade some parts or buy a proper anvil, but £87 total investment isn't exactly an outrageous amount of money! For setting up a business however, that is a different story!

[Dixie]

dablacksmith,
I can understand, that you would not want to have an aprrentice, but I am just wondering if a student, came to you with their own tools and such, would you then be willing to apprentice them, or would you know someone that would, be willing to apprentice someone that came with their own tools and forge? As I am looking at getting into the profession, and the school I am looking at, once you are done their course, you get to keep all your tools, as when you pay for your tuition fees, that part of it, is all of your tools to start up, your own business. I'm Just asking, as I would really, really like to get into the business, and I am well aware that this profession, is not a cheap one.