Laughing Dog Forge Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 I have a customer who had a gate built with rising hinges built by someone else. It is a double gate spanning 17'. The gate opens inward onto a uphill sloping driveway. the rise is 12'' up at the full open swing of one gate (103"). The customer is unhappy with the look of the gates when open, he says they appear broken. Has any one solved this problem before? I was thinking about fabricating a self rising butt hinge but thought the weight would make it difficult to open and wear out sooner since these are manually opened. Then I was brainstorming and thought that if I built hinges that floated up on the pin I could put a wheel touching the ground near the hinge that would force the gate to rise when opened. Or an articulated hinge like on a car hood that would lift up (maybe with a helper spring) then swing open. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLMartin Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 I think the person just needs to have the driveway leveled off or just live with the gates. If you put a wheel on the end and try to let the hinge rise on a long pental I am pretty sure you will just bend the pental. There would be a huge amount of force pushing against it. If both leaves are not perfectly level with each other they will look bad. Trying to get them to raise exactly the same when they are manually opened will be pretty hard and vary expensive. If they really want them to look right have the drive way leveled out and rehang the gates on new post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigred1o1 Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 how about a piston to raise the gate at the hinge before swinging inward that is the only thing i can think of as for a non powder fix to me what he has now is down right brilliant and i am going to try out that idea for gate on a sloped cement slab that always drives me crazy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drewed Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Have the gates swing outward? Perhaps a pannel on the bottom of the gate that would slide up as the gate swings in? Or a lower pannel that swings up? Thats about all I can come up with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 how about a piston to raise the gate at the hinge before swinging inward that is the only thing i can think of as for a non powder fix to me what he has now is down right brilliant and i am going to try out that idea for gate on a sloped cement slab that always drives me crazy This may help if you know how high you want the gate to riseDistance to offset centres of the hinge pins can be calculated by measuring the vertical distance between the hinge points and multiplying this size by the rise required, the result being divided by the length of the gate The other advantage to this is that the gate then becomes self closing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Dave Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 I agree with Drewed to have the gate swing outward. It easily solves the problem and with not a lot of work to change it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughing Dog Forge Posted February 26, 2012 Author Share Posted February 26, 2012 This is the other idea I came across on a mig welding forum.http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=14391&highlight=rising+hinges The drawing made by the member called "the snooper" really intrigue's me but without power would be difficult imho to open manually. I have been thinking along the lines of a folding lower portion. If I cant come up with a reasonable option he needs to step up and make them power then they will always be closed. The road in front is too narrow to open out and sliding could work in one direction which would require making the gate one piece which would be real long and also need power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigred1o1 Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 thats kind of funny i sketched out the same idea but nixed it when you said it had to be opened and closed by hand and my experience with "rise and fall hinges" is when the fall they pick up quite a bit of speed and momentum we had some set up in our squeeze shoot sins the cows could push past them and the gravity would drop them back into place behind after the animal had passed and they really would snap back into place Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 That cam setup probably would work great for an inch or two of rise, but I am doubtful of 12 inches of rise. The slope of the cam would be too steep until the diameter of the cam was interfering with the drive. Some crazy talk here, how about using a hydraulic jack to lift the gate 12 inches, then it opens onto bearing plates. When it is lowered it is rather effectively locked. Put a safety of some type that the hydraulic jack needs to lift over so the gates can't be closed to drop 12 inches at the end. I did say crazy talk. The offset hinge is somewhat elegant in its simplicity. Keeping the offset hinge, what about leaning the entire gate when closed? Too likely to look broken when closed? Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigred1o1 Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 i think the main thing here is that we were talking about un-powered ways to do this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 When building this gate, consider the safety of children playing on or near the gates when the gates are in the raised position. That is a lot of weight, swing momentum, and has several pinch points. You may want to consider a loose swinging panel at the bottom of each gate. As it swings open (and up hill) the panel will drag the ground, then jam into the ground keeping the gate open. To close the gate you would have to lift the panel to clear the ground. This way the gate would swing level and should move easily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughing Dog Forge Posted February 26, 2012 Author Share Posted February 26, 2012 Ok since crazy ideas are now being pondered, here is another one, maybe not so crazy. I hope I can describe this well enough. What if since the posts are hollow one was to put a weight inside the post to act as a counter weight (I know it will be very heavy) with a pulley at the top neatly set almost completely inside with the cable attaching to the gate. Then when one opens the gate one would lift it up on hinges that slide up a long strong hinge pin and swing it open. You could even add a simple gate latch at the bottom to prevent unwanted movement and to maintain gate height alignment when closed. I thought this could also work with a spring kinda like a garage door however it would have to be used as a coil instead of with torsion, just not sure yet how to adjust it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmoothBore Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 OK ..... the problem seems to be that the contour of the driveway interfers with the horizontal movement of the gates. So, don't swing them in a horizontal plane. Instead, rotate them upward, in a vertical plane, pivoting at the bottom of the gate, ... with an adjustable counter-weight, tuned so as to neutralize the weight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianinsa Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 What I'm about to sujest is trickey I know but quite do-able. Frirst you need a pulley on top of the gatepost and a counterweight inside the gatepost about 102% the weight of the leaf.ie. you need to push the gate to close and use a latch to keep closed---- that way you don't get a supersize pinball flipper to whack the unweary into the street(rather safe that sorry)! Secondly you need someone with a cnc lathe to turn up some hinges that work like a nut& bolt slow acme thread --- one turn in 12" is quite some job(read expencive) so it would be ideal to use two as "pivots" albeit rising ones with a pin & tube top hinge. Regards Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 Secondly you need someone hith a cnc lathe to turn up some hinges that work like a nut& bolt slow acme thread --- one turn in 12" is quite some job(read expencive) so it would be ideal to use two as "pivots" albeit rising ones with a pin & tube top hinge. Regards Ian Assuming 12" rise, would not the pitch needed be 48" ? gate opens 90 degrees so 12" would give 3" rise ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianinsa Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 Can't fault you on your observation..... no excuses fingers engaged prior to putting brain in gear! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timothy Miller Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 Tell them to get a gate operator it is cheaper than all of the other options listed. The gates will close themselves when no one is around and they will look normal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grant Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 The customer is unhappy with the look of the gates when open, he says they appear broken. Think about wrapping the gate around the post. There needs more integration between the post and gate elements in the closed position and this would fix that as well. The wrapped portion, especially the bottom, would move down the hill when the gate was opened and the toward the driveway,but this would eliminate the "gate fell off and we leaned it against the post look." It would be a fairly large loop to accommodate the movement and might get ungainly and obviously one would need to rework the hinges to set the gate proud of the post or put a jog in the hinge end of the gates. -grant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 Can't fault you on your observation..... no excuses fingers engaged prior to putting brain in gear! Been there , done that, got the T shirt. Easily done (even when you try not to) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaughnT Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Instead of a tradition pin and knuckle type hinge, what about adapting a ball/socket hinge that would allow a range of motion similar to what you see on a camera tripod? I could see using trailer hitch balls welded to the gate... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Instead of a tradition pin and knuckle type hinge, what about adapting a ball/socket hinge that would allow a range of motion similar to what you see on a camera tripod? I could see using trailer hitch balls welded to the gate... OK, use this for the top hinge, and then build a wide "hinge" that engages a track with something like roller blade wheels (bent angle or C channel? you need something for stability, and probably need the rollers captured so they don't pop out or rack, or otherwise leave the track. Shape the track into an circle that is set off-center so the gate bottom gets pushed out with movement of the gate swinging. If I got my math right (I don't know if I did) the lower hinge needs to push the gate merely an inch at the bottom to gain 12 inches of lift at the far end, allowing for the gate to remain vertical Phil OK, a ring on the gate and an offset ring that is not concentric to the post, on the post, offset uphill the needed amount to gain your lift. Use something as a good bearing for free movement. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughing Dog Forge Posted March 1, 2012 Author Share Posted March 1, 2012 I want to thank everyone for responding to my question, I really enjoyed brainstorming on this subject and I hope others enjoyed it and or learned something new. The driveway only interfered with gate in the last 2' of the swing and needed to rise about 12". Seemed that cost was going to be expensive no matter what. I measured the grade of the drive and he has plenty of room to lower the grade at the gate opening area and spread out the grade change over about 35'. I made the suggestion to check with a paving contractor to see how much that will cost, then we will compare it to making both his in and out gates power, and see what he wants to do from there. More than likely he will want underground operators for the gates. (He has an entry gate that we never discussed that is on level ground, the self rising gate was the driveway exit gate.) Thanks again everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fbcreative Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 I'd have them swing outward or have them slide to the sides. You might need to adjust the posts, add wheels to the gates and add two new posts if you slide them, along with some landscaping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Evans Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 If the roadway is too narrow to open the gates outwards from this position, move the gateposts inwards up the slope by the width of the gate leaf? Suggest to the client that they could then commission a blacksmith to make two panels to run from the posts to roadway....purely in the interest of maintaining their boundary of course! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drewed Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 What if the gates are bi-fold? Would that give enough clearance? Hard to see from the pictures Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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