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Where o where Induction Forge

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I am looking to the possibility of obtaining an induction forge. I had been talking to Grant about this just before his passing and had decided on the 15kw single phase model he was selling. He told me that he modded a few things on the forge to make them more reliable and I believe more oriented for blacksmithing type applications.

I talked to the folks at blacksmith depot and they are not sure if they will be dealing with the induction forges at all, in fact David told me it was quite likely that they wouldn't due to the impracticalities of servicing then. I do know that they are Chinese imports and that Grant recommend running them with a tig cooler.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/15KW-30-80KHz-Mid-Frequency-Induction-Heater-Heating-Melting-Furnace-System-/190554903261?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c5df512dd#ht_3773wt_1059

I've seen the same basic units on ebay and even talked to one importer today. Clearly hobby blacksmiths are not their main demographic, but I did at least get someone with technical knowledge of the unit on the phone today. He asked me was size "part" I was going to be heating, what amount of time and how many per day. And if I needed Hi, mid or low frequency.
Well of course i want to be able to all sizes as fast as I can(afford or power with single phase).

He seemed to think if I was occasionally heating stuff, I could go up to a few inchs of 1" solid bar with the 15kw machine. He said most people just ran tap water through them to cool them.

Does anyone know what Grant did to the machines he sold?
Has anyone purchased one from ebay or another importer and has advise or info?
Anybody got a used one they want to sell?
Anyone had one of these things have problems?

I'd like hear what those in the know think about them.

thanks,

dw

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This is important ! Somebody needs to "pick up the ball " and continue the development of our peculiar demands on this technology.

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I have the 15KW I bought from Grant. Love it! Use the TIG cooler. Grant said tap water will build up deposits in the machine and cause trouble. I made a cooler from a 20 gal barrel with copper tubing coiled inside. Took forever and was not cheap by the time I finished buying fittings, etc. At my usual $3.00 per hour rate It would have been as cheap to buy the cooler and would have looked a heck of a lot better. I was not aware that Grant modified the machines so can't help you there. I agree that you can heat up to a few inches of 1" bar with this machine. You can make your own custom shaped heating coils out of 1/4" copper tubing. You need to find a source of the proper metric flare nuts. I bought extras from Grant. My machine developed problems in the first week. Grant said send it back. He was unable to fix it and sent me another new machine which has worked fine with no problems.

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How odd is this or should I say how timely ...I was on youtube last night looking at this and wondering what it might cost and if it could be homebuilt....The ebay listing answered the cost question. I saved one of the youtube videos and here it is

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myL8QA2KlAI I was looking at this from the standpoint of heat treating applications,but at $4000 it's doubtful I'll purchase one for the limited use I might need it for.

The specs say the circulating water temp needs to be 45* or less.... an inexpensive cooler might be an old coke dispenser that has chiller plates with a built in pump. I have one that was slated for use as a Tig welder cooler...I figured if plain water was good then chilled would be even better (besides I had it) but for one of these induction heaters it sounds like a chiller would be manditory.

Interesting subject...Thanks for bringing it up..

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I would happily arrange for one time importing a supply of these from one of the Chinese companies I spoke to five-six years ago.
I was set to do this and then saw that others were doing the same thing...and then Ebay listings came up.

I ended up finding some US made unit at an industrial auction and stopped looking in to the endeavor.

Not sure what Grant had changed..I see stickers in English on the ones he sold, but I think to really know if anything inside was altered one would have to compare the newly imported to the ones sold...from the same company.

What I learned was that these smaller 15KW units are designed for work we do not do....much like the the Model A and T Fords were not designed for use as a plow tractor, but formers used them as such. Industry is concerned with efficiency and we just want it to get hot faster and cheaper than a gas forge.

Basic rules:
--The lower the Hz rate the higher the costs. 60hz is for industrial melting where deep penetration is needed and 100,000hz is a skin heat used for sealing the foil on tamper proof caps...like those on medicine bottles.
--The larger the range of heating the higher the costs.
--The lower the freq the deeper the penetration of the eddy current which is making the material in the coil make the heat.
--The better the water the better the system works long term (de-ionized, kept within the working temp range,no steel fittings in line...stainless is OK as are bronze and plastic, but mush else and you get electrolysis in action)
--The size of the coupling coil (the place to place the steel) has its limits in inside diameter,number of wraps,shape for a given heat/part and the copper tube itself can be optimized for the work with some research and R&D...but in general you are always playing some game of "it is not ideal, but OK given the situation"
--I noticed also that the English was much better in wanting to buy then when wanting to know what it was really capable of....I would think servicing was not an option..even though I was told it was.

One of the issues is that the profit margins are small on these and one service issues and there would be zero profit...so the incentive to import and offer after sale support..... is very small.

Ric

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Its a scary world now without Grant. I bought my unit from Grant, and it worked great for 4 or 5 months, and then failed to heat metal, making a strange noise. I sent it back to Grant (my expense) and he fixed it and sent it back to me (his expense). I must say it was a horrible feeling before he fixed it -- quite a lot of money for something that doesn't work! But, the feeling when it does work is just the opposite -- these machines really are amazing! I sure hope my unit does not fail again -- I've had it for about a year and a half now... I've opened it up, there isn't much in there... but nothing I would have any idea how to repair.

-Tod

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I was back in NC last weekend and went by BS Depot and talked to Steve and David and asked them again if they were thinking about the induction forges and they said they probably would not be doing them. We looked at one of the machines they have running (MF-15-A) in their shop, but the only branding lables are OCP stuff. I have researched getting these from China direct and have the technical knowledge to support them, but like many other import tools you can have 3 or 4 companies making them and they will look the same on the outside but not be anything a like on the inside from a quality standpoint. Does anyone know where Grant was sourcing his machines?

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Me and David (youngdylan) were itching to get induction heaters a couple of years ago in the UK and diddnt know where to start, We were conversing with Grant by email on and off for a couple of months and we were happy to buy from Grant ( OCP ) , He jokingly answered questions with questions knowing how interested we were in the technology, then one day he just gave us all the information for his suppliers, technical specs, the names of the guys to talk to etc so we could buy direct, with nothing more than a wink and instruction to ask him if we needed any more help. Wouldnt take a dime from us. Just a small example of the mans generosity.


^They do

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I am going to pick up where Grant left off with the Induction machines... In a few weeks I will be brining in the first batch of new machines and doing the same tweeks as Grant did to facilitate use as a forge... The pricing will be the same as what Grant charged... $2995 for the 15KW machine and $4500 for a high voltate 25KW and $4700 for a low voltate 25KW... I can also set up the machines and build custom coils for a fee...

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I have decided to pick up Grants Induction Forge line and will be importing and updating the machines in the same maner Grant did... I will offer the same warrenty, 1 year parts and labor and stand behind the product.



You can refer any questions to me at [email protected]

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Good to hear. An induction forge is definitely on my wish list and it's reassuring that there is a reliable source for when I'm able to pull the trigger.

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I have the 15KW I bought from Grant. Love it! Use the TIG cooler. Grant said tap water will build up deposits in the machine and cause trouble. I made a cooler from a 20 gal barrel with copper tubing coiled inside. Took forever and was not cheap by the time I finished buying fittings, etc. At my usual $3.00 per hour rate It would have been as cheap to buy the cooler and would have looked a heck of a lot better. I was not aware that Grant modified the machines so can't help you there. I agree that you can heat up to a few inches of 1" bar with this machine. You can make your own custom shaped heating coils out of 1/4" copper tubing. You need to find a source of the proper metric flare nuts. I bought extras from Grant. My machine developed problems in the first week. Grant said send it back. He was unable to fix it and sent me another new machine which has worked fine with no problems.

So what do you use for a coolant?

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Great!!!
I'm glad you are able to do this, I'm not in the market for one now but Grant was the only place to find such a forge small shops. I wondered from whom and where we would get these if somebody like you didn't taken over. Thanks and good luck.

Doc

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Good move Larry will you be offering parts for and servicing the units grant sold? I would hate to have mine beak and not know where to turn. I have come to rely on it heavily.

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Great to hear this Larry. I'll be in touch about a wand after you get this set up (and I
finally get the power for the forge set up).

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Thanks Larry! I'm glad to see you keeping this in the family so to speak. One of these days I'd like to add one to my shop, maybe once I get my poop grouped again.

Frosty The Lucky

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I knew I should have been more patient before spending a chunk of the money I had saved. Well, I've only set myself back about 6-8 months, so look for me to be contacting you at the end of the year.

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Great news Larry! Do you have Grant's records? I'm curious if the machine I purchased fron Grant was modified for blacksmithing? Do you know when he started doing the modifications? I'm also curious about the modification? Can you elaborate on what it is (frequency change?) .. if there are machines out there without the mod, can they be modded after the fact?I had not heard that Grant was modifying machines until just recently. One day I'll be looking for the 25KW unit, but that day is still probably a few years away, :-)

Thanks!
-Tod

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