dan_m

Thanks for sharing, that's a cool video. I like the centering arms on their press, I'd never seen them before but thought about that same idea while working on my press. The hydraulic system are already there, it'd just be a matter of using two small cylinders on the sides with a good flow divider. It wouldn't work with my i-beam frame, but no reason not to have that on a four post press. Watching this kind of stuff makes me want to do all sorts of unnecessary things. Most of us don't work at the scale where a manipulator is necessary, but the clamping grip and controlled rotation would be great. You could get the same effect on a smaller scale press by having a rotary table set up vertically in front of it on a mill table,with stepper motors hooked up to both tables. Something like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHKbUYn_61o&feature=fvwrel, but you could move it back a forth from the press. Stick a scrolling four jaw chuck on there and you'd be all set. Completely unnecessary for the work most people on here do, but it would be great for a small production shop and wouldn't be too difficult to set up. I'm going to go work on my press now, instead of dreaming up more things I don't need for it.

Ugh, it's been stalled pretty much since I posted last. I've been super busy with the rest of my life and have barely gotten to work in the shop the past two months. The frame is done though, and I finished the guides last week. I still need to fit the top plate between the guides and attach it, and then I'll mount the cylinders and weld the stand. I have to start bugging my landlord to replace the forklift, it died right after I started the build. I have a hoist hanging from a beam over the edge of my table, which lets me manipulate on the table and take it on and off of the floor, but once I set it on the stand I want the forklift to move it across the room. It's way too top heavy for me to feel comfortable rolling it or using a pallet jack. I'll post pictures when I mount the top plate on the guides, hopefully later this week. I ended up getting a mill about a month ago, and I'm thinking about milling t-slots for clamping down dies, and also for auxiliary attachments like depth stops etc. I'll have to take the bottom plate off though. Always more work.... I'm using channel on the bottom of the stand too, it only makes sense. I'm using foot pedals, but I'm not going to set mine up fancy like Eric's. Just a simple up and down, since I really don't need the automated feature. I've thought about hooking up a DRO, but I'll wait and see if it necessitates itself once it's in use. Easy enough to add one on later.

Here's a link to a thread with pictures of what you're asking about: I like Larry's setup, it must be alot more versatile to use it on the platen table, plus it doesn't take up floor space while idle.

Ptree, that makes sense about not speeding the oil up with multiple baffles. And I won't paint the inside. I am going to put a drain in, though I hadn't thought making the bottom of the tank a sloping vee, but will do that now. I'm assuming it should slope down towards the side where the return flow enters, to help keep debris away from the pump inlet. Would you use a separate magnetic plug uphill from the drain to stop debris from clogging the ball valve, or is that not a concern? Also, what type of filter are you referring to from the auto parts store? I don't really know anything about auto stuff, but the oil filters I've always used don't seem to breathe, they have a solid shell and a rubber gasket, like this one: I'll return my filler/breather and go with your suggestion, I'm just not exactly sure what I'm looking for at the store. I have a picture in my head of what you are probably talking about, but don't know how to ask for it. And I'm going to put a sight glass and thermometer in also. I do see why it's much easier to just buy a tank, but I have a sheet and a half of 1/8" plate that's not rusty, so I figured it's worth the savings to just put it together myself. Looked like something prefabbed in the size I need would run upwards of $500.

You can also use google to search a specific site for your search terms. Type whatever you're looking for, followed by "site:iforgeiron.com". But without the quotes. That will only return results from this site. An example would be: Scrolls collars site:iforgeiron.com

Thanks, here's a link to the building I'm in: http://globedyeworks.com/. Pouring is not my job, but neither is forging, yet. I'm in the process of transitioning it from a hobby into a job, and pouring bronze will probably figure into that somehow, I have to build a better burnout kiln first though. Using the electric pottery kiln was a cheap way to get started, but it requires constant monitoring as the temperature is difficult to stabilize, and it can only fit two or three molds at a time. It's terribly inefficient to go through the entire process for so few molds, considering the kiln has to run for over two days and my furnace can melt 30 pounds of bronze in 45 minutes from a cold start. In the next few months I'm going to build a gas kiln with modular walls so I can adjust its size up to around 20 cubic feet, and use a ramp/soak controller so I can just program a burnout schedule and leave it alone. Plus it'll double as a heat treating oven for hammer and press dies.

Thanks guys, I guess I'll go with a 60 gallon tank, that eight cubic feet and I have more than enough 1/8" plate in the shop already. Steve, thanks for the link to the subplate specs. Let us know how it works out if you switch to D08. You should post some pictures of your press if you have time, I'd love to see it. Ptree, my return filter is rated at 55 GPM, and has a bypass. Would it be advisable to put two offset baffles in the tank instead of one in the center? Seems like it would help, but let me know if I'm missing anything. I'm building the tank myself, so it'd be no trouble to do. Here's a picture of what I mean: EDIT: Just remembered the flow is supposed to go over the baffle, not around it (I think). Let me know, I can't remember offhand where I was reading about tank design. Thanks again for all the help.

Also, my cylinders have 9/16" ports! Makes me wish I'd done more research before purchasing them, but that was my way of committing myself to the project. At this point I'm stuck with the 9/16" ports though, the cylinders were surplus so I can't return them and I don't have another use for ones that large. I didn't build the reservoir yet, so I'll make that larger than the 30 gallons I had figured on to help compensate. Worst case I could always put a coil around the return line and stick a little pump on the side of my slack tub to draw some heat off.

Thanks for the detailed info Steve. I'll be running my pump at the full 28 GPM, should move it just under 2 in/sec before the pump shifts gears. Are you sure my solenoid valve has 7/16" ports, or is that what D05 means? I can't find the port size on the Bailey site now, which seems odd, but I'll go down to the shop after dinner and try to check. The D05 manifold I ordered with it has 3/4" P&T ports and 1/2" A&B ports, here's the link: https://baileynet.com/index.php?page=Search&id=14&srchsrc=SearchBox&sbmfrmas=Submit&baileynum=220-498. Now that we're talking about the manifold, do you know what I'm supposed to do with the second valve station? Can I just make a steel or aluminum cap plate to bolt on and stick a rubber gasket in between?

I've got little experience learning from anyone else, but I really can't imagine a better teacher than Brian, except for the combination of Brian & Lyle. My week there was the most productive educational experience I've had in my life, regardless of the subject matter.

Happy Brianday! You probably didn't even take the day off...

That came out great Randy, makes me even more excited for getting the press built.

I need a 3" OD pulley for the motor on the hammer I'm fixing, to run a 3" flat belt. The shaft is 1 3/8". McMaster has paper pulleys, but they don't have a 3x3 with a large enough shaft size, and they are pretty expensive at just over $100 for the closest size they have to what I need. I just talked to a guy at Paper Pulleys in Tennessee, and they are making me a custom pulley to my specs for under $60. And they'll get it to me sometime next week. Just thought I'd share in case anyone needs flat belt pulleys for a reasonable price. Their site is http://www.paperpulleys.com/pages/home.html

Another thing you can try before welding onto the tool is to loosen it with vibration. After you've soaked it with penetrating oil for a while, use a rotary hammer set on hammer-only mode and put a wood block between the bit and the tool to protect them both.

It will have to happen sooner rather than later. I have a 1.5 ton chainfall on loan, and I'll build a rolling gantry for it. I'd like to make a large one, but I have a 6' drop from the I-beam and that's a good use for it. The I-beam frame weighs 525 pounds, and me and a friend can just barely manipulate it into different positions and slide it off the table to stand it up. Yesterday we cut all of the plate to length, and it weighs another 460 pounds: Today we fitted the plates for the ram guides, and tomorrow they'll get bolted together. The flange on WF 8x35 beams is supposed to be .495" so I cut 1/2" plates for the spacer, but I didn't realize what poor tolerances structural steel like that has. All of the flanges have a slight arc to them, so that as it goes away from the web it curves away from the beam by more than .005". We added an additional 1/16" spacer and it's a good fit on three of the four slides, and one will have to get switched out for something thinner before it's bolted together. The sliding action is very pleasing. So it won't bind the other way, we gave it a little horizontal play by cutting foil tape into strips and sticking them to one side of the beam before we clamped the plates together. The guides can't go into place with both sides attached, so one side on each had to be fitted in place, and this was easier than trying to hold a shim in place between it and the frame while we assembled. I guess you could glue it, but the tape has its own adhesive.

Gotcha, thanks for the info and the sketch. That makes sense. The beams are already welded together, but I'll put the bevel all the way through the material when I weld on the reinforcing plates today.

The horizontal pieces were beveled halfway through the material at 45* on one side wherever the flanges met the verticals: Is this what you meant? Also, they are top mounted because bottom mounting would put the dies too high. The cylinders have a 20" stroke, and the retracted length is 31", so even disregarding the frame and die plates that puts it at 51". It'll go on a stand to get the working height correct.

I finished welding the frame today and got all of plates cut, but had limited time in the shop so nothing worthy of pictures happened. Tomorrow I'll weld the reinforcing plates and lower platen onto the frame, and get started on, hopefully finish, the ram guides. Dkunkler, good idea but I'll wait to see if it works well as is first before doing extra work. Im pretty confident it should be alright, but we'll see

Thanks Randy. There'll be 3/4" plates welded over the horizontal I-beams as in the SketchUp drawing, but the ends of each of those plates is actually welded to the inner flange of the vertical beams, which I think will help a lot. And a 1/2" plate will be welded over the entire top as a cap, and the bottom as well. I'll use half inch bolt to attach the press frame to a stand, I guess it'll be something like Eric's but I haven't drawn it out yet. I usually use 2" or 3" square tubing for that kind of thing. I like the idea of mounting it on wheels, but the total height with the frame and stand will be approaching 9 feet, so it's not really an option. I'll weld two pieces of channel under the stand though, so whenever my building finally decides to get a new forklift I can easily move it with that if I need to.

I began work on the press this afternoon. It was really nice to start to do something with it after a few months of research and playing with SketchUp on the computer. I've posted a few threads with questions about it in the last week, but I'll restate what I'm doing so later on when people look at this thread it will make more sense. I'll do my best to document each part of the build as thoroughly as I can including photos, hopefully it'll help someone out down the road. It will be a 70 ton press, two 6" cylinders at 2500 PSI, with a 20" stroke. The frame is WF 8x35 I-beams...the reason I chose this size in particular is that the flanges are .495" thick, allowing me to use the flanges to guide the ram with a .5" spacer. Here's a screenshot from my SketchUp drawing that shows how that will work: The frame and ram guides are basically a copy of the one Eric Fleming built (photos of his here:http://www.flemingkn.../largepress.htm). I've never corresponded with him, so I don't know if it's his original design or not, but it seems simple and appears to work well. I abandoned the SketchUp file when I got closer to finishing up the design and working more on details that don't need to be drawn on the computer. The 3D model was mostly to give myself a better look at how the ideas in my head would actually work out spatially, and to verify dimensions for each of the frame components. Here's how I left it about a month ago: The frame is two 72.5" pieces of the I-beam oriented vertically, spaced by two 17.25" inches of the same beam, a flange facing the interior of the frame on each piece. The vertical flanges will be the slides that the ram guides move along, the lower spacer will have a 2" plate attached to the top (the bottom dies will mount on it), and the cylinders will be mounted on the top spacer, with a another 2" plate/die holder being driven by the rods. I'll explain each part as I go, too much to explain all of it at once and I'm tired. But I've got it planned out most of the way through, and already have most of the components I need, so this should go rather quick (shooting for two weeks). Pretty much all I have left to order is the oil, lines, and fittings. Today all I did was work on the frame, laid everything out square and did most of the welding. I don't have a hoist or a gantry in my shop, and it was a PITA manipulating the frame around as it already weighs over 500 pounds. Fortunately I've got a friend visiting for the next ten days, so he'll be helping me out, and I'll try to get all of the welding done and have it mounted on its base while I've got the help. Tomorrow I've got another hour or so of welding the I-beams, and then I'll start on the ram guides. Here are a few pictures from today, nothing too exciting, but I'm trying to be thorough: Tomorrow I'll post pictures of the completed frame and whatever progress I've made on the ram guides.

Thanks Randy! I don't have a choice as far as mounting the cylinders on top, since mine have a 20" stroke. They're about 31" in length retracted, which means that even if you don't account for vertical space taken up by the frame, the top die (if they were bottom-mounted) would be at 51". Add the frame to that, and it'd be right about eye level. I would have preferred the cylinders on the bottom for the reasons you mentioned, but I wanted a long stroke so I could use drifts, and though 20" is overkill the cylinders were surplus so I went with what was available for pretty cheap. And I'm going with rigid lines instead of hoses, so I'll just put guards over the fittings to prevent any leaks at the joints from contacting hot metal.

I'm going to see how it works without a flow divider and add one if necessary. Starting the build tomorrow, I'll make a new thread and post pictures as I'm going.

Phil, any chance you could get me a part number on that? The last catalog I got from them was #284. In my catalog there's only one rotary flow divider (a Delta), rated at 21 GPM for the expensive version, but my pump is 28 GPM. The non-rotary, non-priority flow dividers seem to have GPM ranges, none of which work for me as I'm using a two stage pump, so 28 or 7 depending on the stage, and the ranges generally aren't that wide. One thing I looked at was just using a separate flow control on each cylinder, and setting them each to 14 GPM to divide the flow 50/50. I know nowhere near enough about this stuff to know if that's something that would work though.

Ditto. I learned how to weld with O/A from someone who really knew how to explain what to do, and its translated seamlessly to all those types of welding. No further instruction whatsoever, it's all basically the same once you understand it. I personally find stick the most difficult to do well, but its also the one I have the least experience with, and fortunately I have little need for it anymore. If you have a set of torches, I'd recommend trying them out for welding...it's obviously less efficient than arc welding, but everything moves a little slower and it's easier to see what's going on as it's happening. Master that and you're golden for all the rest.

I sent Larry an email last night since he doesn't seem to be on here too much lately. He said that he wouldn't worry about using a flow divider, that (and this is assuming I interpreted his explanation correctly, ie not to quote him) because the cylinders are so close together one can't push too much past the other one without the flow then running mostly to the one that's lagging, as the cylinder out in front is experiencing greater resistance, hence the equalization. He didn't think the cylinders running slightly apart would do any damage to the frame that couldn't happen anyway (poorly or underbuilt frame). Given that, and the fact that Randy has a nicely-working example of parallel cylinders with nothing but a mechanical connection, I'm just going to go for it. I can always add a flow divider if needed.