trinculo

Where o where Induction Forge

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Grant sent all of the machines out tweeked for use as a forge, It took some time to get the manufacture to make adjustments and Grant to solve some of the issues with using the machines as they came. Grants methods are what resulted in the success of the machines he offered and the reason why he has such a good track record. I was lucky enough to be in on the machine set up and that information is more or less a trade secret.... Grant has over 300 machines in operation and the results speak of his methods...

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Dr. Sarver ran his off a phase converter. I believe he said you could get away with a 20 h.p. for the 25 kw. You could go check out the archives at the NWBA site, lot of info. He also posted a DIY wand not too far back.

Sooo happy LLL is picking up the ball on this one. I was thinking about getting a backup, now its back to scheming about a bigger one.

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Induction heaters

I have been selling 18 KW single phase 220v induction heaters for about 5 years. Out of repect for Grant I didn't really make that well known here.
I understand that some folks have been seeking a supplier for units of this size.

Please visist www.courtiron.com to see what I have to offer.

I have demonstrated the unit I sell at the Quadstate Round up for the last couple of years and have been at the last two UMRBC conferences as well.

paul sperbeck
Courtright Iron Works LLC
[email protected]

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Hi Larry,

Thanks for telling us what you can about the modifications. I understand that you can't say much. I've been very happy with my unit, and happy to learn it has the appropriate Grant magic built in. Like Nuge, I'll go back to dreaming about the bigger one. I know I asked Grant before to elaborate on power requirements and chiller requirements for the larger unit, its all here somewhere...

-Tod

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Paul,

I took a look at your website -- interesting to me because the unit is unlike the rather 'standard' unit one sees everywhere. Web site is extremely sparse, unless I'm missing something. Still, the coils you have are quite interesting. Care to comment on the 2 coils on the right in your diagram and their uses? Or about the siliconized sleeve? I may actually be interested in buying a coil or two, as my attempt at making a more complex shape didn't work out well -- somehow that pancake coil is tricky. Anyway, I for one think there is a lot of value in friendly competition, and hope you'll tell us more about your units!

-Tod

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Hey Tod

I am afraid you are not missing anything... I started to build the site and got distracted. It's a good thing lots of other things got done...

I have been meaning to update the coil info as well. The two right hand coils were an attempt to build a coil that can be used to heat a flat sheet of metal in the center (not just an edge). They did not work well. I have since wound a coil that is fairly effective at heating sheet metal.

I have built a flex hose that is about 24" long, and functions fairly well. I understood that Grant had a hose extention available as well. They are a compromise, and while they work they can have problems.

I wind my coils to fit my machine, and while the might work on someone elses' system, I cannot guarantee it.
I will tell you the safest method of matching a coil to the heater though. I use a digital volt ohm meter that has a frequency counter function built in. Wind the coil and connect it. If the frequency the machine selects to resonate the coil falls in the range of the manufactures specified range you're done. If it is to low, remove a turn or increase the spacing of the turns, and if it is too high add some turns or space the coils more closely.

The siliconized sleeving is applied over the coils after they are formed and before they are brazed in the connectors that I use. I prefer flared connections instead of compression fittings... much better electrical connection. This makes a difference at the kind of currents that occur in induction heater coils (possibly as high as 1000 amps).

My machine looks different due to the removeable side covers to allow easy cleaning of the interior, you can just see the lock and key near the top on the left hand side.... need better pics... the cleaning should be done on a regular basis.

I also DO NOT recomnend anything other than soft water and anitfreeze with a anti-foaming agent (pick it up at AutoZone) be used in my machines. Never use DEIONIZED OR R-O WATER. If this is used without antifreeze you will digest every piece of metal in the machine, antifreeze helps forstall this, but I still do not recomend it.

paul

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Wasn't Larry's post about selling Grant's line of forges in a separate thread originally? If it was merged, could it be put back in its original thread? It might be easier to find in the search function in the future that way.

If it wasn't, never mind. It's just my memory playing tricks on me.

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Hmm.

I understand the need to keep spammers from just trolling for free advertising, or from playing favorites, but I'd have liked a bit of perspective. You're a regular, productive member of this foum, and you made a relevant post in the right section about something that was on a lot of people's minds. You didn't post pricing, or go overboard. You simply made a "press release" to the target audience. I didn't find it inappropriate.

Just my opinion.

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Good Morning,

I bought my 15kw from Grant. I asked what he was using for a pump for the cooler and he said that it was a pump from a carpet cleaner that he got from Grainger. I tried a bunch of different pumps, that didn't work, not enough pressure. I am using a simple gear style bilge pump (like an automotive oil pump) that I bought from a used Marine salvage yard. NOTHING FANCY!!! 1/3hp electric motor, drives a 2 1/2" single shive pulley and a 6" pulley on the pump. The pump now turns slow enough to NOT overload the motor. I am using tap water in a drum (we don't have calcium in our water) and after about 4-5 hours the water is too warm and the overtemp circuit cuts it off. If I put a radiator and a fan in the return lines it would work longer. It doesn't bother me to take a break, so I do.

When I picked up the heater, Grant took the cover off and made sure all the connections were tight and pushed together properly. He said that he had a couple problems with a connection slipping apart. He put an electrical box on the back of the machine that had an approved electrical sticker on it. The sticker was on the box when he bought the box. There might even be one on the cover plate for the box.

Just my $0.02.

Thanks a lot Larry, for picking up the ball.

Neil Gustafson

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There were two threads and I merged them as the discussion was similar.

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I use the tig cooler that grant reccomended on my 15kw heater.

Very occasionally it does not build enough pressure. (the unit will not operate with low pressure) I have found that a slight flow restriction in the coolant return lines ups the pressure in the induction heater, and it then functions fine. (ie, nip the hose a little!)

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Larry,

What are the voltages of the 25 kv units and capacity to heat? What size are you using on your breaker points?


the 25KW is available in both 220V and 380V ( Mine is a 380V and it runs fine at 440 but it wont run on 480V you would have to use a transformer) Capacity is a big subject and its hard to define. I heat 3" round excavator breaker points in mine but I would say that is a ways out of optimum... It takes a bit to get them good and hot, it has a much easier time with a 2.5"... How close the coil fits and how well its made play a big part

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This is interesting and thanks, Larry, for taking this over. I am a couple months away from the small unit.

I assume it comes with at least one coil?

How much are extra coils?

How expensive is the recommended cooling unit?

Are there other expenses involved with getting a unit into service?

Thanks,

Dave

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Its pretty minimal Dave,  It comes with three coils and parts to make three custom coils.   The nuts are a couple bucks each and you can use standard copper tube to make your own coils.    I have bought used TIG coolers for as little as a $100,  If you have to buy a new one the hard way plan on spending $600-$800 depending on brand and shipping.   I like the Miller coolmate 4 as its a 4 gallon where most are 3.   I also really like the Dynaflux units which is what I run on my big machine.     There are some hoses and fittings you need to plumb the two units together and a power cord and plug but the cost is low for those parts.    It takes about 3 weeks to get one, sometimes I have one in stock ( I just sold the last one I had at Daves Swap meet last weekend)

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I've seen Grant Sarver's youtube videos, and especially the ones where he uses the Induction Forge.  That Unit is Chinese made, and it seems to work very nicely!   

If you look further, You might find similar demo videos by Mr. Mark Aspery, too.  

 I have tried unsuccessfully , to inquire as to who might sell this machine, (Centaur Forge?,.... etc.?)  No one seems interested, or bold enough to respond, or reply!    What might be the problem?.....    Surely, SOMEONE must sell this unit here in the USA!!!!!....

The one USA company that I've found that does sell this, is one based in New Jersey, called "Across International", an Industrial machine import company (?).

If ANYONE Knows of a Blacksmith, or Blacksmithing Supply Company that would like to sell some of these types of machines, then, PLEASE post/say something, as I'm NOT the only one out here that would LOVE to own one of these machines, or something that is tailor-made for us Blacksmiths/Metalsmiths/Bladesmiths!....

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What do i need to buy!? I'm not electronics  savvy, and I don't know, what's going to do the job. I've been bladesmithing for a little while now. Good friend of mine suggested an induction coil. I really like the idea, but, I  have no idea what to buy. I  have drawn a blank with my research. Low voltage, 240 volts, $1500, or $50. What do I buy? Water cooled stuff? Like a tig welder? No thank you. But i would like to stop burning propane. I really loathe the idea of joining a forum, but I cannot find, the information I need elsewhere. Would appreciate some pointers.  Thx 

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Pointer 1: list your location so we don't waste time directly you to places on the other side of the earth! (We have over 100 countries participating here.)

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Good Morning PwD,

I have been using one that I bought from Grant, in 2011. 220v single phase, has a 15 amp breaker on the back. You can plug it in to your electric stove circuit, clothes dryer circuit, or welder plug. It is not an expensive consumer of electricity. You can make your own coils from 1/4" copper tubing. I use an old boat bilge pump to supply the coolant pressure for cooling the coils and transformer. I use automotive anti-freeze for the coolant (I am a mechanic, I salvage old anti-freeze).

The only way I can explain the operation of the Induction Forge/Heater is, simply magical!! No excess heat to warm up your work space, no carbon monoxide problems. no problems in a breeze, no problems if someone interupts you while you are working, no waiting for your Forge to heat up before you can start work. Start the coolant pump, turn the power on for the Heater, Press the button to start when you have your piece inside the coil, WATCH MAGIC HAPPEN. Start forging, continue as required.

I can heat a 1 1/8" solid bar to forging temperature in 65 seconds. A 2" solid square bar takes 2 minutes. You can move your piece in and along your piece to get a longer heat, by moving back and forth.

There is NO down-side. other than initial purchase price. I figured it would save me propane costs and take 1 1/2 years to pay for itself.

Neil

 

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One of the New Mexico Artist Blacksmith Association members uses an induction forge.   He's on the east side of the mountains next to Albuquerque. You may want to contact that group and meet up with him.

I've been to the Trinity site  several times---not much there---which means it WORKED!

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