Graham Fredeen

As Sam mentioned, working both sides of the blade is key as is working the sections of the length of the blade, overworking one side will cause more material to become displaced and will result in offsets that cause bends and warps. Something I do is to try to keep things as straight as possible through out all the forging steps, to do this, durring each heat, once the blade cools to the point where you can no longer move significant material, I always go and true up the edges and any off bits on the profile, etc with light blows before going into the next heat. This intermediate correction process helps keep the corrections small and keeps them from getting out of hand. Do not use heavy blows at these low temps however, working high carbons and alloys at too low of a temp will not make them happy and bad things like cracks will happen. For straightening a blade that is warped and wavy along its ege, I usually sight down the edge, find a high spot, lay the high spot on the anvil and hit it lightly at its peak a few times (either at a black/dull red heat, or fully annealed), then flip and move onto the next. Once the major waves are corrected, I lay the blade flat on the anvil, or angled on the bevel, then starting at one end use light rapid blows while drawing the blade back across the anvil (thus moving the blows along the edge), then flip to the other side and repeat a few times until everything looks good, usually getting lighter and lighter on each pass. If there are any stubborn waves, individually knock them down. For twisting along the blade length, I go to the vice.

The problem with using mild steel when starting out is that you dont get a feel for the temperature tolerances of the steel. This leads to bad habbits like forging like too cold, that have to be corrected later on, meaning you have to take a step back to fix that before you can take another step forward. I think it wiser to start getting a feel for a good steel as soon as possible. If you are using some old leaf springs or some free/cheap drops from a suspension shop and skrew it up, no loss. You are still learning how to move the steel under the hammer like with mild, 5160 is pretty forgiving and not excessivly hard to move under the hammer like some of the other alloys so its good for beginners, but at the same time you will be forced to develop good forging habbits from the beginning, and if things go well you can take it a few steps further and start learning how to heat treat and finish the blade properly. With mild you are pretty limited to just the shaping processes. Sure you can finish it up and make it look good, but I personally dont find much satisfaction with a pretty piece of steel that isnt good for much else than looking at. Might as well give yourself the option of killing a few birds per blade durring the learning process. I guess my philosophy is to start developing all of the basic skills necessary from the beginning and gradually improve and expand them all as you go, rather than trying to just master one set at a time. Thats why I recomend to start small with knives and work up to bigger and harder blades. You start out with something simple that introduces all the basic skills then as you get proficient start doing more complex things. I think we both agree, yet disagree at the same time . I agree about learning a set of skills and then moving onto other skills, but why not link that learning process of each of the skill sets together, rather than forcing it to be separated due to materials that will not allow the other skills to be learned? Just my two cents.

I have to disagree with this advice. If you want to do blades, don't mess with mild, period. Firstly a proper highcarbon steel suitable for making a sword lengthed blade out of is not very expensive in comparison to the cost of mild steel. Brand new 5160 stock for example, in proper dimensions for blade work can be had for roughly $2-$3 a foot or for enough for a longsword roughly $8-$12. 1075/1080 about $2 a foot. Now something like O1 can become quite pricy, $20 a foot, but that is used mostly for knives. Not up on the current cost of mild flatbar or how the cost varies per region, but awhile ago, Im pretty sure mild steel flat bar in blade-workable dimensions was running up almost close to $2 a foot for new stock where I am. And these prices are the worst case senerio, brand new 5160 drops from a shop that does leaf spring re-arching and other work can usually be had for free if you go and ask nice and explain what you are trying to do, and if not free, pretty cheap. There are also old leaf springs that can be had at the scrap yard for the cost of scrap weight that will work for learning, but I don't recomend old unknown steel after you get some skills down. 5160 is an excelent steel both for beginning to learn to work with high carbon and alloy steels, and for its performance characteristics. Banging out a mild steel sword like object, while it gives you a general feel for how to shape stock, thats really all it does. You will also have to go and re-learn how to work high carbons and alloy steels when you move on to them. They are much more picky about working temperatures and have a whole different feel to them. The sooner you learn to work with these things the better off you will be. Also, for the same amount of work that you put into a mild steel look-alike, you could actually have a sword, something that is heat treatable, will hold an edge, and will perform like a sword. The sooner you start working with the proper materials, the sooner you will be able to develop valuable skills like heat treatment, and the sooner you will be able to advance your skills and become better. But a piece of advice, while you may want to make swords, they are not really the best place to start, and I say this from experience. I started out early on trying to do large pieces and as I learned more and more about the craft I soon reallized that swords take some special skills and I was getting ahead of myself, so I went back and kept things small for awhile. I still don't really do much in the way of swords due to lack of proper HT equipment to handle something as long a sword. I would recomend to keep things small for awhile until you can develop the skills necessary to do something larger, then work your way up. Knives and daggers and the like are much more forgiving and will teach you a whole lot about forging, grinding, heat treatment, and all the finishing steps and will build a good foundation for doing these processes on a larger scale. If you cant do these things on a small knife, you will not be able to do them on something as large and complex as a sword. Heat treating a knife is alot easier than heat treating a sword, and a knife will help you to learn the metallurgy behind what is occuring durring heat treatment, and once that is understood you can work on translating that into what has to happen to successfuly heat treat a sword. Same with grinding/filing/sanding/polishing, a knife is smaller and will take less time, therefore you can spend a bit more time on it to develop the proper skills then take them to something big. And distal taper is a decrease in thickness (tapering) of the blade. So a blade that is thicker at the ricasso/hilt area, and gradually gets thinner as it progresses towards the tip has distal taper.

Some also choose to braze on the bolsters before the HT (usually only with brass bolsters however), or to use low temp silver solder (melts about 400 F or so, so it wont mess up the HT) after HT.

I like to rough the shape of the handle in on the grinder, just to make things go a bit quicker (knock down all the excess and establish the general shape), but once I bring it close, I tend to do the rest by hand, with rasps, files, and sand paper. Grinders eat steel real quick, and they eat softer things like wood, bone, and other grip materials even faster. Its super easy to screw up the grip on a grinder if you don't have a lot of practice. Its harder to mess up when you are doing things slow by hand since you have a great deal more of control of where material is being removed and how quickly. Ultimately it boils down to available equipment, personal pereference, style, and your own individually determined skill and methods. What works beautifully for one smith, may work horribly for you. Experiment a bit, find out what works for you and go for it :)

L6 is an alloy very similar to 15N20 and will produce similar results, but as has been mentioned, the local suppliers probably wont have either. Best to just order some, or if you can find some old band saw blades (not the bi-metallic) they have a chance of being either L6 or 15N20. As for the dog star pattern, yes, it is like a modified ladder pattern, with the cuts moving radially outward from a single point of origin.

Dont forget to include cost of attachments in cost of the grinder. A complete KMG set up with multiple contact wheels, tooling arms, motor, and other attachments (small wheel, etc) will put you out about $2000. The plans from Don Fogg's site are almost a 1-off of the original KMG. The original KMG is constructed with almost exclusivly mechanical fasteners, I think the only welding is on the tracking pivots for the tracking assembly, and on the work rest. Its not a bad way to go if you dont have the welding equip to do it, or if you have a nice CNC set up like beaumont metal works to do all the drilling and tapping for you . Its actually faster and easier (therefore cheaper) for Rob to have the CNC drill and tap, then bolt it all together than it would be to weld the entire assembly. If you have the equipment and skill might as well weld it, I probably would. If you are planning on building the Don Fogg plans, I would suggest that you modify the platen assembly attachment illustrated. Its a much better idea to go with more of a c-shaped mounting plate and to extend the mounting brackets on the platen itself, then you can pull off the platen and have a slack belt with the same set up. With the Don Fogg plans, the straight side of the mounting plate would interfere with grinding.

Just as an update, I recieved an email back from the professor. Unfortunately he says that things on his end have came to a stand still. I guess there were some counseling groups who were going to contact various state Attorney Generals but the proff. has not heard what came of it. He said to keep him posted on anything new from our end and he will let me know if he hears anything else. Too bad there isnt any progress from the counseling groups, it sounded like they had some grounds against the guy due to issuing false licenses without proper accrediation, which I guess really upset the head of the American Counseling Association, and a request for an investigation for consumer fraud was put into the Ohio AG's office. I was hoping that they would have some progress made, and save us a bit of trouble . Oh well, worth the try. As far as the whole lets "get taken" and take them to civil court for fraud plan, better not rush into that too fast. We have to make sure that we can come up with all the proper evidence and know all the law facts first. I don't know enough about laws regarding consumer rights or what power civil courts have in the regulation of "businesses" such as this. I don't know if a civil court has the power or juristiction to shut down this kind of internet scam, or if they would just give you cost of damages. Plus, a law suit in civil court sounds like lawyers are needed and that immediately sounds like a whole lot of money and a big mess. We have to make sure that this plan can work, and that we arent getting ourselves or which ever one voluenteers into a bigger mess than we bargained for. We definatley need to figure out if this kind of thing would give us the grounds to shut them down, if a civil court is the place to get it done, what kind of representation we would need and if we can get someone to represent us without incurring massive financial loss. Like I said, I don't know much about the laws regarding this matter, maybe someone else here does, but before anybody commits, we better make sure we know what we are doing.

Been researching this for awhile since I saw it, and like everyone else here I am pretty angry about the whole thing and want to see this mess stopped. In my research, I found out that apparently the weasel

Thanks guys. Lol Don. I suppose it could be yours . I made this one seriously considering giving it as a gift to an old woodworking friend who gave me a bunch of nice grip woods, including the snakewood and tulip wood used on this blade. I have a couple others in the works that would serve the pourpose equally well. But that is probably where this one is heading, unless someone comes along and just "has to have" this knife .

Its been awhile since I last made any blade related postings, so I thought it would be a good time to finally get to it, that and I just finished up a new one This is a little bird and trout styled knife that I put the finishing touches on yesterday. The first completed blade done on the KMG. I have a handful of others that I have ground on the KMG and ready for HT. Unfortunately I barely get any time to head out to the shop anymore, thats why my presence as of late has been lacking, and my production rates are seriously slow. I can't stand it, makes life horribly difficult to bear . Blade is forged 5160, full hardening and temper 9.5" overall 4.75" blade (tip to bolster) Completly flat ground Brass bolster and pin Snakewood grip Tulip wood and black poly spacers Its got a nice feel in the hand and it is sharp! It would make a trout skin itself . Anyway, hope you all like it, and as always, comments AND criticisms please.

Congratulations on the new KMG! I bought myself a KMG around the beginning of summer and I can tell you that you wont be dissapointed. The KMG is one of the best grinders out there and worth the money for sure. It takes some getting used to, especially if you are used to a different type of grinder, but once you get the hang of it, it makes things go super smooth (I am refering to grinding blades of course which takes some practice, otherwise there isnt much of a learning curve if you are using the KMG to grind something else, just walk up and use it ). I wasnt able to go with the VFD due to available funds, but the step pulleys work sufficiently for me. VFD will only make things better and is on a list of upgrades to be made down the road for me . Anyway, congratulations again, bet you cant wait to go turn some metal into dust . And glad you got all your wiring and electrical figured out and done.

When I used to weld hand rail and other decorative iron work I worked at a couple different shops, one had compressed air piped throughout the shop, the other didnt. The shop that had the compressed air had the pneumatic die grinder and the other had the beefy electric (I think one dewalt and one milwakee), and I have to say that I infanitly prefered the pneumatic (just a plain straight, not 90 deg). Overall it was alot easier to use, the electric die grinders were bulky and had some weight to them and really required two hand operation, whereas the pneumatic you could use with one hand, no problem, it was light weight, ran smoother, and could fit into a lot tighter spaces. Another tool that I found to be super valuable in the fab shop was a band file/belt linisher/"belt file" or whatever you want to call it, This - Small Belt Linisher Those little things are great for cleaning up welds and rounding corners and getting into hard to reach spots. I have also seen them in pneumatic if that is the way you want to go. You can buy the 1/2" wide belts and split them in half and run 1/4" belts for cleaning up welds in corners, and dealing with tight radii areas. A 60 grit belt on one of those will knock down a weld pretty fast. You do end up going through a lot of belts, unless you buy good quality belts (which the shop never did so we burned through a ton of those things). Just thought I would throw that out there too.

Dont know what'd be so bad about that, actually sounds like a dream come true Very nice blade. Looks like one heck of a cutter, and definately has some great practical application. It wouldn't make sense to do a nice finish on a blade thats going to be used and put through its paces, and I think the rough finish is actually more appropriate for the overall look and feel of the blade anyway. Also like that micarta, I have been wanting to play with making some myself some day... when I get the time that is... .

Found a couple of tip charts on a site Hooper Welding Supply - Tip Charts It has material thickness recomendations and psi for the range of tips, both welding and cutting. The thickness recomendations aren't set in stone, you can get some tips to do a bit more or less than what is recomended, but that gives a good guidline. Like if you don't have a number #2, you can probably turn a #1 up enough or a #3 down enough to get the job done, but a #1 isnt going to be able to cut up to what a #3 will. Correct pressure is definately key when cutting, too much or too little and you can get that extra slag that flows back in and seals your cut back up. Additionally proper cutting technique will help as well. When you are cutting, angle the torch slightly into the cut, this allows the preheat flames to provide more heat in front of the cut and will help you keep your cut continuous. Additionally the angle helps to blow the slag out and away from the cut areas towards the colder steel. The cut you just made is hot, and the material in front of the cut is comparitivly not, the hot slag is attracted to the heat and will want to bond with the heat. Cutting with the torch straight down will allow some of the slag to flow back into the heat instead of being blown away. Travel speed is also something that can effect your cut, too slow of a travel speed can cause the slag to build up, too fast and you will loose your cut. A lot of travel speed comes with experience, just knowing how a cut is progressing and what the slag is doing and adjusting to accordance. Also, overheating the material before making the cut can create excess slag as you are allowing the oxidization process to effect more than just your cut area, this will also give uglier cuts with a wider kerf. You should only have to heat the material to about a cherry red at the cut's start and the following oxidization reaction will maintain itself with the heat generated from the process and a little help from the preheat flames. Whenever cutting or welding, you want to keep the preheat flames, or the cone on the welding tip up above the surface of the metal. The exact distance varies slightly depending on what you are doing, closer for a bit more heat, further away for a bit less, but keep the tip of the cone above the surface of the steel. That flame is also more oxidizing and has more "force" beind it, so if welding, you'll get a lot of undercut and porosity and blow out if you are running the cone in the puddle. Not to mention overheating the tip. Usually with an overheated tip, if you let it cool off and clean it up it should work just fine, so long as you didn't overheat to the point of drastic failure and disfigurement. Cutting tips aren't as big of a deal to replace as the whole cutting head, so hopfully thats where the problem lies. And no worries about the advice, always glad to be of help. We all are a pretty tight community and good folks (or at least that's what Id like to think ), and thats what good folks do, try to help when we can or find out where you can get some help. And thats why the forum is here. Graham

John, Most HC railroad spikes only sit around .3% carbon. As far as you heat treat steps go, it is unnecessary to harden the blade, then re-anneal, then re-normailze, then re-harden. You won't really be gaining anything from that except extra practice . When making a blade, after you finish your rough forging, normalize the blade one or two times, then anneal it. You want to anneal it to make it easier to work as you grind and file it. After you finish with the rough grind, then normalize the blade. I usually do about 3 normalization cycles. You will probably want to do at least 2, 3 for good measure, and anything after that probably won't make much of a difference. After the last normalization cycle, there is no need to anneal, just go for your final heat and then hardening quench. With the HC railroad spikes, in order to gain maximum hardness use the fastest quench you can, cold water will give you some hardness, but a brine quench will give you a little more. It still won't be up there with a good high carbon steel, but every little bit counts. Following the hardening quench that is when you temper the blade. 535 F is far too hot for a tempering temperature for such a low carbon steel and is really too hot for most blades and steels. Tempering temperatures vary depending on steel of course, blade length, blade uses, and hardening methods. For example, a sword must be tempered to a higher temperature than a small knife, this is becuase the sword will see greater stress than the knife and must therefore be softer than the knife in order to absorb the additional stresses. If you differentially heat treat a blade (harden only the edge) you may not have to temper at all. For a through hardened spike knife like you have made, you will not have to temper very much due to the lower carbon content, since the blade will not be as hard to begin with, you will not have to reduce the hardness as much inorder to impart the necessary toughness. I would say that about 300F would be about as high as you would want to go. You can always start lower and work your way up. Something you can try is what is known as an edge flex test. Sharpen the blade, then take a brass rod, clamp it in a vice and place the edge on the rod. Apply pressure on the edge to try and flex it, if the edge folds, you know that you tempered too much, if the edge chips, you know that the blade needs to be tempered at a higher temp, if the edge flexes and returns to true, you know you have a good temper. Now the edge may not be hard enough to flex and return to true in its hardened state and may just fold due to the low carbon content, and if thats the case, you can temper the whole blade at a low temperature and call it good, or leave the edge at is maximum hardness, and temper just the spine with a torch (a small little propane torch will to the trick). Clean the blade off so you can see the heat oxidization colors occur, place the blade's edge in water to prevent it from heating, then heat the spine until you see the colors run. Continue heating until the colors move down towards the edge, but not to the edge. That will give you the best of both worlds, hardness and toughness. And is really the best choice for a spike knife. Finally the last bit of advice I can give is to experiment with differenet methods and tempering temperatures until you find one that works best for that particular steel. This of course means destruction testing your blades, which you may not be willing to do at this stage, but its definately something that you should start doing if you plan to be making knives on a more serious level. Hope that helps, feel free to ask for some clarification or expansion if needed and let us know how it turns out. Graham Fredeen

Sorry for not getting back sooner, been kept really busy and havent had the time. As far as burn/flash back, it can be caused by a number of things, some of which can be hard to pinpoint. What is is is combustion which occurs behind the cutting/welding tip, on the inside of the torch. If the torch head has discolored due to heat that far down, that is something serious and very dangerous. Firstly, and this goes for anyone and everone who works with a torch, dont pick it up unless it has flashback arrestors. If you are getting flash back down the torch while its running and you dont have flash back arrestors you run the risk of having that ignition travel back down the torch and through your hoses and that means bad things for you and anyone else who might be around. Anyway, burn back, or pre ignition or what ever name you like to call it by, can occur if you overheat the torch tip while working (getting it too close to your work allowing the radiating heat to heat the tip up), however this will only cause the burnback when you overheat the tip. If it starts up that way and keeps at it, it is definately something else. You can also over heat the torch tip by running the torch at incorrect pressures for the specific tip you are using. Every tip is designed to operate at a certain working pressure, too much or too little and the torch tip can overheat. A simple fix is a tip psi chart or memorizing the psi's. Always make sure when you start the torch up to add acetylene until the point where the flame begins to feather and it stops producing the soot, this is when the torch tip will function at its best. If you have ever worked with a huge rose bud and not given it enough acetylene you will notice that it will pop, indicating burnback. This is because as the acetylene is consumed outside the tip, where it is supposed to be, there must be sufficient acetylene behind it to keep up with the rate of burn or to "force" the flame out of the tip if you will, if there is not enough, the flame will burn at a rate greater than the acetylene comming out of the tip and therefore the flame will burn down inside the tip and burn the oxygen and acetylene that is comming into the mixing chamber, this greater volume of acetylene and oxygen will produce an "explosion" inside the torch, making the poping sound. This rapid combustion consumes all the fuel inside the mixing chamber and the flame is forced back outside the tip, and more oxygen and acetylene fill the mixing chamber, and the flame is alowed to burn outside the tip until it has consumed enough acetylene to overcome its entrance rate and the cycle repeats. Any drop in acetylene and oxygen pressures can cause this to occur. Some of the guys at the shop I used to work at used to grab the hoses when some one was working and put a quick kink in them and make the torch pop to startle the guy using it. So, since it sounds like your burnback is occuring constantly, that means that something is interrupting the gas flow somewhere along the line. A dirty tip will cause that, a loose tip that leaks will cause it, something that has gotten inside the torch body could cause it, manufacturing defects could cause it, bad valves, o-rings, something in the hoses, and all the way back to the regulators even. First thing I would do is try to narrow down where the problem is comming from. First, replace the o-rings since you said they had been ruined. Start up the torch with the cutting head on, if it pops, shut it down. Pull off the cutting head and put on a welding tip, see if it pops then. If it doesn't, its something wrong with the cutting head, if it does, the problem lies elsewhere. If you suspect the cutting head, make sure the cutting tip is clean, make sure that the cutting tip is sealed correctly and tightly against the head. You might even try different cutting tips to see if it is just a bad tip. Make sure you are running the correct pressures. Check the torch body, cutting heads, valves and anything you can see for any defects or damages. Dropping the cutting cutting head can bend tubing and damage seating that can cause your problem. Something I forgot to ask, has the torch done this from day one, or did it start sometime after, like after doing heavy cutting, or dropping the torch, etc? If you overheated it, or put some physical strain or shock to the torch (drop it, drop something on it, etc), you could have caused some serious damage to the guts of the torch and that could be the source of the problem. If it did it from day one, then its either a bad tip, bad cutting head, bad torch, or something to do with the hoses and regulators. Just start working your way down the line trying to narrow down the source and elimanating the others as you go. Also, clean the torch up, take all the heat oxidization off the outside and clean out the inside of the torch body and cutting head, tips, etc. And check the entire setup for leaks using soapy watter at all of the fittings. Start with the clean torch every time as a good basis for your testing, that way you can make sure that what you change afterwards was or was not the problem. Thats your best bet for fixing the issue. Unfortunately, due to the nature of the problem it is difficult to pinpoint an exact cause without going through and trying to narrow things down. And unfortunately if the problem is comming from manufacturing defects or damage, or if the torch has been overheated to a sever extent due to the problem (which it might have been from your description), you may not be able to "find" the source of the issue, and won't be able to fix the torch and will end up having to replace it anyway. Hopefully this will be of some help, and hopefully I did not write and ramble too much , there are just too many variables to put into a short post . Anyway, good luck and I hope you can come to a conclusion about the problem, keep us posted.

Sounds like you must have gotten a defective torch Nate. The HF is not an ideal torch, and certanily wouldn't hold up well in a high abuse area like a welding fab shop, but for things at home and more "gentle use" situations they seem to do just fine, or at least mine does. Certanily if you have the funds buy a good torch like a Victor or Smith, or if you plan for heavy use, but for a starter torch for someone on a budget or for someone with limited need, it is a decent alternative. I have had one for probably 3 or 4 years now and it has never given me any of the problems you have mentioned, in fact I have been pretty pleased with it. The hoses are cheap and short, and tend to start cracking, but as far as the torch it, has done just fine. Never had any o-ring issues, bought a bunch of replacement o-rings thinking there could be issues, but havent had to replace them yet, even after a few years of use. Granted I don't use the torch every day, but for my needs it has served me well. Carbon buildup inside the torch body is not from leaking oxygen at the connection between the torch body and cutting handle, thats from burnback down into the torch body from the tip, or pre-combustion into the torch body, but havent really heard of that problem, usually if a leak occurs at a lower fitting, it will burn on the exterior of the torch at the connection, since the pressure of the gas forces it outwards. Burnback is the mostlikley cause. Oxygen does not cause hydrocarbon build up, that comes from acetyelene, acetylene without enough oxygen to completly burn the hydrocarbons. The popping tip sounds like your cutting tip is leaking, dirty, or defective, allowing for burnback into the cutting head and down the torch body. Burnback/ flashback is dangerous and I would not run that torch again until you correct the issue.

Definately wait and save your money and buy a decent oxy acetylene setup, you will not regret it. However you will probably regret getting that little torch. While $50-$60 for the torch might not seem "bad" when on a budget, you will probably find that you will not be pleased with its performance and inevitabely will want to upgrade. And it is going to cost a lot more than you think to operate. That little oxygen cylinder for that torch only last a few minutes (I have heard only about 15), as in minutes, not hours and at a cost of around $15 a piece, thats crazy, for every hour of use you do you will be spending $60. Cutting will eat oxygen consumption even faster. After using the set up for only about 8 hours, you will have eaten up enough money to have easily bought yourself a regular oxy-acetyelene setup. If you are looking for a cheaper way to get into a regular oxy acetylene set up, HF has complete torch and regulator kits for about $150, and you can buy or lease tanks for different prices, and diffrent sizes for different costs.

You might try contacting Ditch Witch to see if you can find out what the steel alloy of their digging teeth is. Some quick research told me that the Charles Machine Works, Inc produce the teeth for Ditch Witch. 1959 West Fir Avenue Perry, Oklahoma 73077 U.S.A. Telephone: (580) 336-4402 Toll Free: (800) 654-6481 Fax: (580) 572-3527 Web site: Ditch Witch Bucket teeth and anything that works in the dirt is usually made from a wear resistant CrMnMo alloy. I havent been able to pinpoint a specific alloy used in bucket teeth or digging teeth, but a lot of wear resistant steels are air hardening, there are a few that oil harden as well, but you probably have an air hardening steel. Hopefully someone will drop in who has worked around/with these things and knows the alloy or most common one used in these applications.

You dont even have to TIG, unless that is your prefered method of welding. I arc all my billets to their respective handles, and you could MIG them no problem as well. Preheat and Post heating are important to prevent cold failures of the welds. However, I find that regardless of pre/post heat of the welds, if you overstress the hot weld, the material around the weld will still tend to fail. By overstress I mean like bending the material at the weld in opposing directions until stress accumulates to the point of failure. But with proper forging technique and good enough penetration in the weld that problem shouldn't be much of an issue. Lack of penetration is also an issue, like if you did a butt joint and didnt leave sufficient gap and your penetration is lower, then the weld will tend to fail, still usually at the material, not necessarly the weld, but it pulls away from your stock and without enough penetration to hold it you can have them come loose. Keep in mind also that my "experience" with this is using a little 115v HF buzzbox to stick weld the joint, so if I don't gap the joint I definetly wont have enough penetration. Wouldn't be much of an issue with better welding equipment that you can get some decent heat off of. But something to keep in mind none the less. Also, if your weld fails, in my experience it usually wont fail all at once, usually one side will go and give you some warning, rather than your half forged blade going flying across the shop without notice, inevitably into some back corner undersomething flamable thats hard to get to .

Welcome Julius, The first step in gettin started with bladesmithing is research. Learn as much as you absolutley can about the processes involved in bladesmithing before you ever attempt them. While you could go out and take a torch and some makeshift anvil and try to make a blade, it will take a lot longer and be much more difficult, and the end result mostlikley dissapointing if you do not have any background knoweledge to help guide your experimentation and learning. Research as much as you can on the internet, there are huge amounts of websites with great information available, and forums such as this which provide a wealth of knoweledge. However, when it comes to asking questions on forums, be aware that many of the people who are members of these forums are very talented and in many cases professional bladesmiths, with years of hard earned experience and master craftsmen. They had to work to get where they are and had to fight for the knoweledge they have, and it can be taken offensively when someone barges into a forum and wants to be "told" how to make a blade, and wants the answers "given" to them. The majority of smiths are great people and more than willing to help guide persons new to the craft, so long as you make the effort and devote your own time and resources and aren't looking for a handout. Keep that in mind when you are asking your questions, and ask your questions in a professional manner with having researched as much as you can independently, and you will find bladesmiths very nice and helpful, but otherwise you may be rejected. Researching on your own displays your initiative and true desire to learn, it will help you ask the right questions to get the guidance you need and ultimately help you understand the answers to your questions to a higher degree and allow you to impliment them in your work more effectivly. I don't say this to scare you off, only to help prevent you from falling victim to one of the most common and discouraging problems new commers can face. I would also suggest buying, or checking out from the library, as many books on bladesmithing you can. "The complete Bladesmith" by Jim Jim Hrisoulas is highly recomended, as well as any of his other books. The more you can learn before hand the better. Then as you continue your research, start accumulating some of the tools and equipment you will need to start taking your theoretical knoweledge and put it into practice. Build yourself a decent little forge and get yourself something to function as an anvil and start learning how to move steel under the hammer. And if you can, try to find a smith in your area that you can work with and learn from, even if they aren't a bladesmith, it will vastly help you learn. I would recomend that you hold off on pattern welding until you have mastered the basic forging processes. There is no sense in trying learning how to forgeweld a billet before you can actually forge a blade to shape. It is best to start small with something basic and gradually build your skills, rather than trying to start with something advanced and end in failure or dissapointment. You have to learn to crawl before you can walk, and you have to learn to walk before you can run. I think that is about the best advice I can give on starting out. I will be glade to answer any more questions you have as you begin your research, as are most smiths here. Graham

Thanks for that info Dave, thats exactly what I wanted to know. I knew that Hobart was being built by Miller, and that some of their units are the same, but what you stated confirms my reservations toward the little Hobart. The Hobarts are a bit cheaper, but that is usually for a reason. I don't want to have to spend $600-$700 on a new Lincoln or Miller, but would rather spend more for a machine that will hold up better and perform better. There is no rush to get the welder immediately, so I am going to keep my eyes open for a used Lincoln or Miller that might be had at a better price. And thanks to everyone for you inputs, definately helped the decision making easier. Graham

Thanks for the info guys. I have some more to consider now. I used to work as a welder doing ornamental work, rails, stairs, fences, etc, and any other fab jobs that came in. We used the 220v Millermatics in the shop and they were always good. We also had the Miller bobcats on the trucks for the field, and I think there were a couple of suitcases for them, but we primarily stick welded our field welds. This little MIG would be mostly for my own shop usage, and the occasional odd job or need that might need to be welded elsewhere. I am pretty set on 140 amp for a little MIG and wouldnt want to go to a lower amp model. I do want to be able to do a decent bit of fab work with it and not just be limited to thin sheet. 1/4" would be decent enough for my uses. I guess my main concern was whether or not the Hobart held up as well to the competition. I have heard that Hobart is more of a "hobby" grade welder. In addition, there are the various biases that one welding manufacturer is better than the other, etc. And wanted to get some of your opinions on what you all think is best. It seems like the hobart can be a bit less expensive than the Miller and Lincoln models, and wondered if there was any reason to spend a hundred or two extra for lincoln or Miller.

Hey folks, I am really starting to consider getting a little 110/115v MIG. My little HF piece of xxxx buzz box is just not working out too well for me, so I think its time for an upgrade. In the past I have used a little hobart 115v MIG that worked very well, and would run up to about 1/4" thick material. I don't have 220v power in the shop, or I would just go with a nice big millermatic 210 or something of the sort. Plus, it is really handy to have a smaller welder that you can throw in the back of the truck and take places that don't necessarily have 220v access. Someday when the shop gets upgraded I will beef up the power and get some better welding equipment, but thats a long ways off and definately need something in the interim. So I was hoping some of you who have used a number of these little 115v MIGs could steer me towards a good one. Something that performs well (though I am completly aware of 115v limitations), and holds up well. And to clarify, I am after MIG w/shielding gas, not a sole flux core. Like I mentioned, my only experience was with a little Hobart, think it was the 140 model, and it seemed to work pretty darn good for running off 115v. But I wonder if there are better little MIGs out there. Any help is greatly appreciated. Graham