Sask Mark Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 I have a 100 pound Lakeside made in 1907 (sn 146473). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Dean Posted January 29, 2009 Author Share Posted January 29, 2009 I have a 100 pound Lakeside made in 1907 (sn 146473). Please, how did you come up with that date? I could not find Lakeside serial #s showing dates made. Thanks for any help. Could you help date Finn's anvil? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sask Mark Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 Please, how did you come up with that date? I could not find Lakeside serial #s showing dates made. Thanks for any help. Could you help date Finn's anvil? I made the assumption that the Lakesides just fit into Hay Budden's serial number scheme, since I thought the anvil would be a routine Hay Budden production item, just stamped differently for a different customer. I used the Hay Budden serial number/date chart from Anvils In America to come up with this date. Perhaps I'm wrong with this assumption. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Dean Posted January 29, 2009 Author Share Posted January 29, 2009 I will double check when I get home, but I think that they are off some from the Hay Budden #'s. I had thought, like you, that was how they did it but the #'s don't line up that way. Look at the Lakeside listed on page 289 and 354 and you'll see what I am referring to. BUT! I sure could be wrong too!:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLOB Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 I have a 204lb Hay-Budden. picked it up for $300 last year. I forget what the serial number is but someone told me it was made in 1912. (I think thats what they said.) I have the AIA book now but havent had the time to double check the numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irnsrgn Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 115139 - 1906 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sask Mark Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 (edited) I will double check when I get home, but I think that they are off some from the Hay Budden #'s. I had thought, like you, that was how they did it but the #'s don't line up that way. Look at the Lakeside listed on page 289 and 354 and you'll see what I am referring to. BUT! I sure could be wrong too! I see what you mean. Mine seems to fit within the Hay Budden serial number scheme. As you suggested earlier, is it possible that Finnr's Lakeside anvil is a Trenton? I have seen a picture of his anvil in the 'It Followed Me Home' thread and I agree that it does look like a Hay Budden. However, on page 339 of AIA Mr. Postman states that he has recorded a few Trentons with a letter preceeding the serial number. These letters varied (a theory is that the letter is the anvil maker's intial). He never mentioned the letter 'L' (as is on Finnr's anvil), but he also never stated that the letter was restricted to a few specific letters. The letter 'A' preceeded the serial number of later Hay Buddens (starting approx. 1918). But no other letters seem to have been used on Hay Buddens. If Finnr's anvil is a Trenton, it would be made in 1910 (boy do I love Anvils in America!). Regardless of what brand it is, it is a very nice anvil! Edited February 1, 2009 by Sask Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Dean Posted February 1, 2009 Author Share Posted February 1, 2009 I see what you mean. Mine seems to fit within the Hay Budden serial number scheme. As you suggested earlier, is it possible that Finnr's Lakeside anvil is a Trenton? I have seen a picture of his anvil in the 'It Followed Me Home' thread and I agree that it does look like a Hay Budden. However, on page 339 of AIA Mr. Postman states that he has recorded a few Trentons with a letter preceeding the serial number. These letters varied (a theory is that the letter is the anvil maker's intial). He never mentioned the letter 'L' (as is on Finnr's anvil), but he also never stated that the letter was restricted to a few specific letters. The letter 'A' preceeded the serial number of later Hay Buddens (starting approx. 1918). But no other letters seem to have been used on Hay Buddens. If Finnr's anvil is a Trenton, it would be made in 1910 (boy do I love Anvils in America!). Regardless of what brand it is, it is a very nice anvil! I also thought that maybe the letter "L" could have been a #6 but that would be the only number it could be, I think. Definitely a head scratcher for me, either way it's a good anvil. I got my AIA at the Saltfork conference back in Oct. It had been put in the auction by Mike Sweany from up around Tulsa, OK. Mr. Postman had signed and dated it--"Enjoy!" Richard Postman August 2008. I paid more than I had hoped to but still very happy with it! Sure glad Sweany put it in the auction! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sask Mark Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 I was also wondering if the 'L' might be something else. However, I don't think that either manufacturer used the number '6' at the beginning of their serial numbers. My wife bought me AIA for Christmas this year. Like you Thomas, I am still getting to know it, but so far it has been thoroughly entertaining. Sorry for getting off topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riverrat Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 I just picked up a 203 # HB with at least a 200 # base. I'm just getting started and am pretty excited about being able to use this anvil. As best as I can tell the numbers on it are 40921. Anyone willing to look it up and tell me the year? I would really appreciate it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irnsrgn Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 40921 - 1898 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riverrat Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 Thanks Irnsrgn for taking the time to look this up. Gary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winston Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 I have a 227.4# (according to the bathroom scales) Hay Budden. I am a new blacksmith. Got my forge 4 weeks ago. I have an anvil that was my great grandfathers so I never have looked for one or learned about them. I decided tonight to figure out what kind it was. Went out and scraped the surface rust off and found a "HA... BU..." over "Manu..." over "Brooklyn NY". Thanks to google I figured out what kind it was. I didn't have a clue about anvil types. I guess it turn out the granddad bought good stuff. I can't read the serial number though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Dean Posted March 6, 2009 Author Share Posted March 6, 2009 Keep cleaning, I'm sure it's there! What a treasure you have, good for you. Welcome to IFI also! If I may, how about clicking on "User CP" in the tan bar at the top of the page and update your profile giving your location. It can help sometimes with getting you to so folks in your area that can give personal assistance. We will do all we can here at IFI but sometime a real live person can help so much more. Also check out the blacksmith group in your area and join them. We all enjoy having new folks join our groups. Again, welcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 Welcome aboard Winston, glad to have ya. What a score! I have some of my Father's machinist's tools and instrumentation and my Grandfather's gold pocket watch and a little beat to pieces anvil that is SUPPOSED to have come off one of the clan's farms but that's about it. Another fellow here is just putting his Grandfather's smithy back into action, his most recent question is the "questions about firepot depth" thread. The subject line is close to that anyway. Just so you know, this is an addictive craft, it'll only take a couple fires at most and you'll be hopelessly hooked. Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finnr Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 Number for sure on the Lakeside is L97100. Just did the chalk thing over it and it shows up plain as day. Maybe the mystery anvil is Trenton made. Thanks a bunch Guys Finnr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Bly Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 Frosty, I'm hopelessly hooked as it is and I haven't even got a forge yet. So what was so special about the Hay Budden that everyone is talking about? I don't meen to stir up a bees nest with my ignorance. Just curious because I don't know if I'm going to have to save the box tops off my cereal boxes to buy one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guinness59 Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 I also have an HB serial nr 21049,or it could be 21019 not sure.Any clues? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merl Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 Jeff Bly, I'm pretty much a newbe to blacksmithing my self although I'm not new to making my liveing with high quality tools. I have Hey-Bud 11243, 134# and confirmed to be 115 years old according to the guys on this thread and Anvils in America. Knowing how old it is I can understand why the top plate is only about 3/8 thick but, is in very good shape with good edges for most of it. It has some nicks in it but they are very shallow and don't show up it the work. There is only a slight depresion in one area and it's kind of handy sometimes when I need to flaten a piece. The horn is somewhat dinged up but, that is understandable since it is solid wrought iron. The tip of the horn even has a little crook in it, probably from beeing struck repeatedly. How many thousands of blows would you think it would take to do that to an anvil horn and not break it off? My anvil is just a standard London/American pattern, nothing fancy but it sure does make me happy when I use it. I belong to an antique power club that has a large blacksmith shop with several anvils. When ever I use one of those I always wish for my H-B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Bly Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 But what makes the Hay Budden special/unique? What makes this particular anvil stand out above others? I've also heard people mention the Trenton as being a pretty good anvil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merl Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 I don't know enough about anvils or blacksmithing to even speculate what makes one anvil more highly sought after at some time than another. I do know that of the handfull of anvils I have used, I like my H-B the best. It is probably nothing more than the mass it has (317# with the "inertia block" it has on it) I am also big into "the good old days" and, knowing this anvils age, working on it spaks the imagination and gives me a feeling of beeing conected with my family history. For me I don't think it is the Hay-Budden name that makes my anvil any better than any other. Three years ago I was just as happy with my "Russian" pattern from Harbor Frieght. However, as my skills developed, I quickly felt the need for a bigger anvil and this happens to be the one I found. I very foolishly passed on a much larger anvil that was going so cheap ($1.50/#) I was sure there was something wrong with it. Turns out the guy who sold it just wanted to get rid of his stall at the antique mall and didn't want to have to move it again... It is what ever YOU deside is the best anvil... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metalmangeler Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 Hello Jeff Hay Budden anvils were made in the USA which is good if you live here. They were wrought with a steel face welded on. The face seems to be harder than some of the old anvils and maybe thicker so they seem to not sway as much as some. There is plenty of rebound due to the hard face, but that contributed to the edges chipping some. They made both blacksmith and farrier anvils and some that are kind of a cross i.e. they have a larger horn and thinner heel than you would likely find on say a Peter Wright, that is a mixed blessing depending on what you are doing. Mine is 184# the serial number is mashed enough that I cannot make it out. It is my main shop anvil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Bly Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 I'm beginning to get the sense, and please correct me if I am wrong, that the rebound of the hammer blow is in relation to the hardness of the face of the anvil. For example; Harder = More Rebound = Better. Is that Correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sask Mark Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 The composition of the anvil body also affects hammer rebound. The cast iron anvil bodies absorbed and dampened a lot of the energy due to the carbon structure (higher carbon content) than the very low carbon wrought iron bodies. Some of the IFI members better versed in metallurgy can explain this better than I can. Hay Buddens are considered a quality anvil as many of them (empirical evidence) seem to have stood up very well over many years of use. The later Hay Buddens had the entire top half made of steel (not wrought with a steel plate), so there wouldn't have been a risk of the plate delaminating from the body. If you want a good summary of the qualities of many different brands of anvils and why/how the author judges their quality, try to get your hands on a copy of Anvils in America by Richard Postman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 HB's are one of the top American brands, always good to get one of the best even if it's used. If you wander across the street to anvilfire.com you can find the ball bearing test a quick and esay way to judge the *relative* hardness of an anvil and be able to make an educated guess on if the face has been through a fire or been milled off or badly built up or even if an anvil with no discernable name on it is a good one or not. It's basically dropping a 1" ball bearing on the anvil face and seeing how high it rebounds with values for different anvils listed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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