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If you're going to spend the money on a new anvil I would go with either the Hoffman or a Nimba in the same size. A 110lb anvil on a 100-200lb base would be a very serviceable unit and likely hold or increase its value as long as you take care of it.(that means NO GRINDING ON IT)

My question would be " If you can't drill the hole how do you expect to make the threads in it too?" Can you just weld a nut on the end and then grind the flats off to hide it? I have been a skilled machinist for nearly 30 years and if I needed a threaded hole in the end as you do but, didn't have the tools to do the job, I would find someone that could do it the right way or modify the design to eliminate the threaded hole if I could. Could it be cross pined?

I guess I'll throw my .02 cents in too on the HF stuff. I tried one of the "Ugly Ivan" 110lb anvils a few years ago and liked it quite a bit. I went right out and got one for myself and for the $90. I paid for it I should have got two more for my two boys to start on. I waited a few months and found they no longer carried them so I just got a couple of the 55lb ASO's (after all they are only 4 and 6 years old) The Russian pattern is good except for the obvious horn issues and I made a heavy wooden stand for it that lets me add 150lbs (two zink ingets) to the over all weight that helps keep it from jumping around too much. I put the two 55lb ASO's on stumps that are short enough for my two boys and got them a set of HF ball peen hammers. I keep a spool of soft 14 ga. steel wire in the shop that they can hammer on cold when they want to "help Dad blacksmith". By the way, they both wear child size wrap around safety glasses in the shop and have a corner away from my work space but wear I can watch them. I have since replaced my Russian with a fine old Hay-Bud but keep it for my number two anvil and also use it for my traveling anvil. Considering what a descent anvil costs I figure when the kids are old enough, and want to really work some hot metal, I'll put a slab of 1045 on their little ASO's and see if they are serious befor investing in a real anvil for them.

I thought that is why it is called a "cutting table"? Granted, you can't usualy use a hold down if you're on the cutting table but, I use it all the time. Now to be perfectly honest I don't cut on the Hay-Bud but I do on the Russian all the time. One thing my Hay-Bud is good for is teaching a painfull lesson to you if you miss the work and hit the face. Last week I was trying to make a slight tapper to the edge of a piece and had my face too close to the anvil face. I made a miss hit and was rewarded with a lite ding to my fore head. Fortunatly it was only a 20oz. ball peen but, you get the picture...

"Twine wrapt around the hammer handle" That is a very interesting idea Caleb, I may have to try that. Anyway, I use a lite weight leather glove, like you might use for TIG welding, on my holding hand most of the time. I never use or, I should say, carple tunnle prevents me from ever useing a glove on my hammer hand. My hammer handels are all taken on the belt sander to shape them down to fit my hand just right and prevent the pain and numbness of CT. A blacksmith mentor of mine showd me that when a hammer handle fits your hand correctly you should be able to wrap your second and third fingers around it and just be able to touch the base of your thumb without strain. If the handle feels too thick then I keep taking some off the sides untill it's right. No room for a glove in there I find too if I try to use a glove on my hammer hand I have to grip the hammer much tighter and my hand and arm get tired faster. I want to add that I always use a pair of clip on sunglasses of my safety glasses for looking into the fire, and just quickly flip them up out of the way when not needed.

Nick, consider that if you have a gas forge you likely won't have problems with smoke or odor like you would useing a solid fuel(coal, coke, or charcoal). I live a ways out in the counrty with my nearest neighbour about a 1/4 mile away. My smithy is in the back 1/3 of a former livestock barn that's probably around 200 yards from the house. This alows me to work very late at nite if I want to and keeps the smoke and dirt from the house. We have a set of two way radios if needed. I use hardwood charcoal to start my coal forge and sometimes the fire flees going up the flue make me nervous when it's dry in the summer. Frosty, I'm glad to see your avitar finely got up and did something. :rolleyes:

I don't know enough about anvils or blacksmithing to even speculate what makes one anvil more highly sought after at some time than another. I do know that of the handfull of anvils I have used, I like my H-B the best. It is probably nothing more than the mass it has (317# with the "inertia block" it has on it) I am also big into "the good old days" and, knowing this anvils age, working on it spaks the imagination and gives me a feeling of beeing conected with my family history. For me I don't think it is the Hay-Budden name that makes my anvil any better than any other. Three years ago I was just as happy with my "Russian" pattern from Harbor Frieght. However, as my skills developed, I quickly felt the need for a bigger anvil and this happens to be the one I found. I very foolishly passed on a much larger anvil that was going so cheap ($1.50/#) I was sure there was something wrong with it. Turns out the guy who sold it just wanted to get rid of his stall at the antique mall and didn't want to have to move it again... It is what ever YOU deside is the best anvil...

Yes Warren, I actualy use those in my fish farming operation. I generaly don't call them that because most people are not familier with that word.

There is "shop air " and then there is "plant air". Shop air seems to be what is usualy supplied by an under powerd piston compressor that is often purchased with the up front cost as the priority. It seems that no matter how big your piston compressor is, it will end up being too small at some point and that will keep happening more and more as your shop gets more ambitious. Plant air is something that is figured in to the cost of doing business, and should be part of your calculation for determining the shop rate ect... If you already have a compressed air system that has to run all the time anyway and, IF it has the capacity to run these additional air devices (what was said? 250-300 cu.ft./min. x up to 7 units) along with all the other air users in the plant. As Frosty suggests, the air indusers will do a good job in this situation and, depending on your shop layout, it may be the only safe alternitive to supplying air to all these forges, rather than individuale blowers. The shop were I work doesn't even allow radios and personal fans because of the inheirant danger of all the elctrical cords (electrical cords and sharp, black hot metal chips don't mix). Every machine has a line for an air blow gun and two more for air grinders ect... In a large plant, compressed air is the way to go. At home I use a Champ 400 on my coal forge. If I ever needed a compressor to run machines at home ie, an air powerd hammer, I would invest in a screw compressor and run a line to every building, as that would be the "tipping point" for me as far as effiecancy goes.

Jeff Bly, I'm pretty much a newbe to blacksmithing my self although I'm not new to making my liveing with high quality tools. I have Hey-Bud 11243, 134# and confirmed to be 115 years old according to the guys on this thread and Anvils in America. Knowing how old it is I can understand why the top plate is only about 3/8 thick but, is in very good shape with good edges for most of it. It has some nicks in it but they are very shallow and don't show up it the work. There is only a slight depresion in one area and it's kind of handy sometimes when I need to flaten a piece. The horn is somewhat dinged up but, that is understandable since it is solid wrought iron. The tip of the horn even has a little crook in it, probably from beeing struck repeatedly. How many thousands of blows would you think it would take to do that to an anvil horn and not break it off? My anvil is just a standard London/American pattern, nothing fancy but it sure does make me happy when I use it. I belong to an antique power club that has a large blacksmith shop with several anvils. When ever I use one of those I always wish for my H-B.

An easy way to get stop action photography is with an industrial strobe light. They are usualy veriable from 10 to several thousand flashes per second. We used one at a shop I worked at to observe chip loading and discharge on the planer tools. Pretty cool.

Finely ,here are the pictures I promised. The first two are my Hay-Bud with the 8x8x10 base block. The third is my "Ugly Ivan" Russian pattern anvil with the strap and turn buckle setup.

Mr. Hofi, that post was the best laugh I have had all day "moove a side please..." My wife even laughed at that one! Thanks

Frosty, I'm from N.E. Wisconsin. That line is from one of my favorite Nick Park claymation movies(Chicken Run) that my kids and I have seen many times. My family came over from Cornwall in the late 1800's so there was still some conection to the way that phrase sounded "ferrin". Go ahead, rib away... I'll try to post some pics tomorrow.

If the chips in the edge of your anvil face are a problem for you or interfear with the work you are trying to do, you might consider makeing a hardy tool that would amount to the equivelant of a new anvil face. I have a 100lb Peter Wright that I want to use for demos. It has seen very little use and the top plate edges are perfect. However, the face of the top plate is pitted from rust and has two quarter sized by 3/8 deep pock marks in it (probably from someone useing a torch on it) For general work and drawing out it will be fine but, when I need a smooth surface to work on I'll put on a 1" thick piece of 1018 that has a piece welded on to fit in the hardy and covers the rest of the top plate. As long as I don't do any cold work on it, this sub plate should do fine untill I come up with a piece of harder material. IMHO

"Ooh Hoo! That's champion, that is!" THANKS for the instructions Frosty! I'll try to get a couple of pictures on but, my work week starts Friday (Friday Saturday Sunday, take four days off and repeat!!) (Big Smile) so they may not get up untill Monday. One of the worst obsessions I have is having to log on to sites like this every day to see what people are talking about... The weather is finely getting nice with highs of 35 F and I'll be spending most of my time out in the smithy for the rest of the year. I hate to think about it but I may have to go to a heated shop to get anything done in the winter.

Barnaby, The anvil weighs 134lbs and the base block is 183lbs another 30 for the wood block riser that all sits on to bring it to my working higth I guess that adds up to just shy of 350lbs. I'll try to get some pictures posted. Glenn, how does that work to post a picture here? You know instead of wood I would use a chunk of angle iron for a hold down. I think if you're going to have a wood stand the chains and turn buckle would be good (or straps and turn buckle) but, if you want to try the inertia block set up like mine the two need to be to be really tight with no chance of loosening up while in use. My 2cents... Frosty, I wish you wouldn't encourage my obsessive behaviors (grin)

Frosty, No I had not thought of that!!... But now that you metion it I do have accsess to an optical lapping maching that would be large enough to do the job...(hee hee) You have to relize what was going on at the time. It started out as a simple project but, I had a dead line to get done by and it seemed for a while everything I tried made no difference and that is what made me go a bit over board. You know what you say when you're obsessive. "If ,at first, you don't succeed. Obsess, obsess untill you do!" Glenn, as for epoxy, we have some stuff at work we use to glue aluminum armor plate together with but, I wanted to be able to get them appart if I needed to so, that was not an option for me. That might be a good idea for future projects though...

To follow on what Frosty said about evening up the bottom of the anvil to increase the contact area, Here is what I ended up doing to fit my anvil and base block together. Bear in mind that I wouldn't do this for every anvil as it was alot of work. The 8x8x10 block I have was cut from a 10" thick plate of A-36 ( it was undersize and so was scraped) The top and bottom on the 10" side were nice and flat from the steel mill so I only had to clean them up a little with a 4" grinder. The bottom of the anvil was a bit rougher and was suprizingly hard to grind but , I used a precision straight edge to help take off the high spots with the 4" grinder again. When I thought I had it pretty flat I would rub it on the base block and look for rub marks on the bottom of the anvil and then keep touching them up untill there were more and more rub marks. This indicated that more and more of the two surfaces were touching. For some reason I became obsesed with getting a full contact and decided the two surfaces needed to be hand scraped. So I got out the machine bed scrapers and took them bothe to 10 points per inch! Thats not much for a typical machine bed but is probably the most any anvil has ever seen. I then made a frame from 1x1 bar stock that went around the waist over the feet and is through bolted 4" deep into the base block with 5/8-11 grade 5 bolts. Think that did the job? Heck no! No matter ware I struck the anvil it would "buzz" and give me a shock right back through the hammer handle. I finely figured out the anvil was still bouncing off the block no matter how hard it was tightend down. The force of the hammer blow was going through the anvil to the block and being kicked back at me because of the different weights and dencities of the two masses. So I figured that the 1x1 frame was flexing and allowing this to happen. I then made some very heavy wall spacers to go under the 1x1 frame and only allow me to pull the frame down about 1/16" after it touched on the anvil and not allow it to keep bending. Although this helped it didn't solve the problem completely. I then decided that no matter how tight I fastend the anvil and block together they would never act as one piece and continue to kick back at me. Someone did suggest putting a sheet of lead between the two but, not haveing any and not wanting to have a potential lead dust hazerd in the shop I stripped off enough 10 gage solid copper wire to cover the surface of the base block and then tightend the anvil down on that( chained the whole works to the bench to get it as tight as I could). Problem solved. If you use an "inertia block " as one learned smith calls it, you need to put something between them that will compress slightly and then hold that shape indefinatly. One thing I notice on your stand is, while you trap the anvil from moving side to side very nicely, you don't have it strapped down to the stand. My own little bit of expeirience has shown me the anvil needs to be firmly attached to the base. Some may disagree but, IMHO, it is best that way. I like Frosty's suggestion of the Bondo on the base of the anvil. That could be faired into a nice, smooth and level surface if that 's what you need. A bit long winded but, I hope it will help you. BTW I wouldn't try welding on a wrought iron any thing. I think the slag inclusions in the iron will just give you hell and you may cause brittleness in your nice old anvil. Again that's MHO...

That's a nice spoon but, if you feel you're haveing trouble forming them over a stake you will find pounding them down into a spoon depression is much easier. When I make a spoon I use bar stock and make an egg shaped ball on the end then I go and draw out the handle. I flaten out the "egg" to the thickness I'm looking for plus a little for finish grinding. Your peice should look like a flattend spoon but with the sides a little wider. Now I'll take a medium ball peen with a smooth radious ground on it and knock it down into a custom spoon form I made for the hardy. You will see that this leaves some dimples on the inside so I then take it to the inside rounding stake (just a polished RR spike) and planish it from the out side. Grind the outside smooth and a seasond oil finish (I use olive oil) as you suggested and call it done. I was trying to do the whole thing over a stake but it was a misery, and someone very wise told me "why do you think swage blocks have spoon holes in them?"

At the risk of sounding like a know-it-all, isn't that anvil probably solid wrought iron? At least the base I would think. You need to have mass, mass, mass for that anvil to work right. The stand is part of that. I relize it needs to be portable but, it should be heavy too. I have a portable stand for my demo anvil (100lb) and I find it lets the anvil jump around too much. When I was helping clean up my wifes grandparents estate some years ago I found two 50lb Zinc ingets in the garage that grandpa used for weight in the car for winter. Now I use them for extra weight on my portable stand and I made an inconspicuous bracket on the stand so I can attatch a set of wheels and an axil to it to help move it to and from the truck. I had the same problem with my 134lb Hay-Bud. It's a sweet anvil but I just wanted something heavier. A freind gave me an 8x8x10" block of A-36 and I made a hold down bracket to fasten the two together and now the whole thing weighs 317lbs! No Problems! Maybe (don't bite my head off!) you could consider makeing the base so heavy that it couldn't be moved (or stoleden) and then make an all weather cover/ enclosure for it and then enclose your entire smithing set-up in a Gazzabo and leave it in the back yard all the time. Would the neighbores be any the wiser? Other wise the sand is a good idea I have a freind that has a set-up like that and likes it alot.

This same discussion was just had on another blacksmithing site earlier this winter. Here is what I came up with for my 1894 Hay-Bud and my unheated NE Wisconsin shop. I have a 8x8x10" block of A-36 bolted to the base of my anvil for extra mass and I include it in the mass of the anvil. So I decided to get a 20' heat tape (like you would wrap your pipes with) and start at the horn and go around the heel and the waist and make the rest of it around the base block a couple of times. I leave it pluged in all the time when I'm not useing the anvil and I made a cover out of that silver backed "bubble wrap" insulation that fits closely and tie it on with bungy cords. The heat tape has a built in thermostat that keeps the anvil at about 40F. When I plan on doing some thin work (I often make rustic flatware) I will use my big "weed burner" torch to heat the anvil from the waist up so that the top plate is just warm to the touch. This is usualy not enough to dry the condensation off so I always wipe it down. My second anvil is a Russian pattern that I don't baby like the H-B (it aint 115 years old either!) and it is noticeably colder and more difficult to work on like that. This winter we had several weeks in a row that were only a high of around 0 F and I was less inclined to work out there but, when I did the pre-heated anvil made all the differance. I also found the recomended floating type stock tank heater kept my slack tub free of ice as well. Don't forget to replenish the water every so often due to evaporation. I guess I don't worry about the equipment made from modern steels so much but, that Hay-Bud is irreplacable to me so I do what I feel is needed...

What exactly is "Iron in the Hat" ? I have heard this mentioned many times else ware but never sure what the purpose of it is.

Great post, Forgemaster. It's true, steam is always more powerfull than compressed air. I wish it was easier to produce. Well lets say "more practical" to produce. I'm always daydreaming of a way to make a water tube type boiler that would be a "turn key" operation and practical for use in a small shop for guys that want a line shaft setup...

Hey Ironcreations, I don't call myself a gunsmith anymore but, I took my tool and die makers apprenticeship from a guy named Klause Horstkemp ( now deceased but Google him anyway and see what you get...) He was the owner of State Arms Gun Co and basicly invented the first sucsessful single shot rifle to use the .50 bmg round. We provided rifles to the military and police agencies as well as to serious western game hunters. We also made .50 BMG hand loads that used a solid bronze bullet turned on a cnc lathe. Wickedly acurate but, kind of pricey at $5.00/ea. (that was back in the 80's) Man the stories I could tell about that guy... While I worked there I fell under his Firearms Manufacturer licence and was able to do any thing in the way of gun and "accessory" making that I wanted to as long as it was cleared by him and had the correct paper work filled out if for sale. At one time, befor the ban, a well known class three dealer offerd to sell me a nearly new never been fired Maramont M60 with spare barrel and everything (no tri-pod though) for $6000. I couldn't come up with the money and had to let it pass but, I just saw one of those guns for sale not to long ago for $47,000 !! Ohh well... Those sure were good times working for him. I sure do miss him.