Making a solid steel anvil

[Jclick45]

Before anyone asks "why"?? The answer is just because I can and like building things. I want a 300lb anvil for my heavy work.

I have read and seen many homemade anvils but I have yet to see one done as I'm thinking, and I'm not sure why! 

I have a full machine shop, so my idea is to take block of solid tool steel, run out my anvil design on the shaper and mill, then send it out for heat treating. 

Most I've seen are welded up chunks, or mild steel with hardfacing, or steel with a tool top arc welded on. Machining one from solid seems like the simplest way and the only way to get the performance of a quality manufactured anvil. 

 Is there a reason this isn't done that I'm not thinking of?

And last, any advice on steel or how to request the heat treat done? Doesn't need to be fully through hardened just the top or would there be benefit to through hardening? I will as thinking of maybe a 4140 tool 

[Glenn]

A drawing or list of the features you want in your anvil would depend on what you want to be able to do with the anvil.  One horn vs a double horn, one or multiple hardie holes, step between the horn and face, an upsetting 5th foot, mounting holes in the feet, turning cams on the side or the back of the anvil, square clip horn, round clip horn, thick or thin heel, thick or thin waist, etc. Once you have a drawing, please post it so we can comment further.  And there is nothing that says you can have only one anvil

Consider the steels available and their properties, choosing what fits your project.  It may be to your advantage to have the anvil cast. 

[Latticino]

I would assume the main drawback would be cost.  I suspect if you factor in the minimum 25% material loss that will be required to machine an anvil shape out of a steel block, the wear and tear on the equipment and tooling, labor cost, shipping and the cost to heat treat, a cast H-13 anvil from Holland will start to look pretty attractive.  If you are just doing heavy work, you might want to consider just getting a block anvil and grinding some radiuses on the top (ala Brian Brazeal).

[JHCC]

In addition to the above, the thing that immediately springs to mind is that you'll be committing a LOT of time, money, effort, and tool wear to something that may turn out to be different from what you really need, unless you're copying an existing anvil.

[George N. M.]

As the previous folk have said, your design will depend on what you intend to do with it.  An anvil is just a block of steel upon which you hammer hot metal.  The London or double horn European patterns are good for general, all around purposes.  If you are doing a lot of one thing you may want a specialized anvil such as a farrier's or sawyer's anvil.

Machining a 300 pound plus hunk of steel is going to be interesting.  You must have some LARGE machines and manipulators available.

Before I started on such a project I would check with heat treaters first to make sure they can do what you want done and at what price, plus the hassle of transportation.

It sounds like an interesting project in and of itself but not many folk would want to undertake such a job.  IMO, most smiths, if they can afford it, would buy an anvil and move on to hitting hot metal as soon as possible but if this sounds like a fun time for you, definitely go for it.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

[Goods]

I would talk to the heat treatment company you would plan to use. If you tell the the size and shape of the anvil and what characteristics you are looking for they would be able to make good material recommendations for you. Some steels are very shape sensitive and may warp or crack in the heat treatment. If the heat treater has induction hardening capabilities, that may be a cost effective solution as well. Bringing the whole anvil up to temperature and cool that large of a mass at a set rate could get expensive.

Just a couple thoughts.

Keep it fun,

David

[Jclick45]

Excellent replies all, thank you! You guys are way more sensible than the FB folk lol. I have talked to the heat treat company I use and getting some ideas. I even considered an air hardening steel and HT myself but if I'm going to have that much invested, I want it to work REALLY well, not just spend hours shaping steel and then having a really big ASO. 

Cost of steel alone is about 1800 bucks, so it's getting up there with buying a nice big anvil all said and done. If steel wasn't so darn expensive......

I could get a block that size for almost nothing in mild steel, but then I'm right back to the troubles of home-made anvils, welded top, hard face etc. 

As someone mentioned, casting I think is the way to go! I know a guy that did that and it was an awesome anvil. I suppose that's the best way to go if you want custom......I could do all the machine work to shape and finish a cast anvil, so possibly a route to go. But, may be just as expensive as buying! Thanks forged in fire, for jacking up the prices of all the tools .....

[George N. M.]

I recall reading about some guys in California hardening an anvil by heating it up in a large beach bonfire for hours and then picking it up with chains and poles and carrying it out into the surf to quench it in the Pacific Ociean.  A BIG slack tub.

GNM

[JHCC]

The problem with quenching in the ocean is twofold: first, a brine quench is generally faster than plain water, so you run the risk of cracking. Second, you really want some good wave action to help break up the vapor jacket, but that makes wading through the surf somewhat more hazardous.

[Frosty]

Very true John but an anvil has significant thermal mass to continuously draw down brittleness / temper. Finding the spot on the beach that provides plenty of fast moving water is a matter of picking the right spot and tide. A beach topography that promotes rip tides or waterfall tide pools come to mind or perhaps a place where a stream enters the ocean which would help reduce salinity. 

I had a small waterfall picked out but never built an anvil. I heard (read?) a story about a couple guys quenching their anvil by dragging it behind their boat. I think that one might call for some salt.

Frosty The Lucky.

[JHCC]

Also, Hereford, Arizona is some distance from the ocean. Maybe a sand-and-sagebrush quench?

[Frosty]

Un huh, I don't think he wants to anneal it to finish. Where I live now we're only maybe 14 lane miles from Cook Inlet with the 30' tides but getting to the water means crossing mud flats that tend to behave like quicksand carrying an anvil so I came up with another method. 

The project I was contemplating was hard brazing a Vascowear grader edge "face" to a cheap cast iron ASO that was dropped here some years ago. The brazing rod I was going to use has a liquidus just above the hardening temp for Vascowear (carbon content of 1.5%+)

I know the owner of the gravel pit well and planned on preheating and brazing the grader edge "face" to the ASO by the large gravel pit pond in his old pit. Quenching it from critical by dunking it in the pond wouldn't work for vapor jacketing. So I planned on taking a page out of Soderfors play book and use a 2" trash pump with the outlet hose connected to a step ladder over the anvil and just let the water flow at approx. 300gpm straight down on the face. Redirect the flow and check for temper colors by filing the face see how the colors run and when I like it let the pump finish chilling it.

While I never did that, the plan is still on the shelf and I share it when it might work for somebody. Soderfors used a flume of specific size from a water tower that contained THE correct amount of water to quench it's anvils, allowing residual heat temper the face. They produced so any it was all by the book.

Frosty The Lucky.

[JHCC]

Mousehole Forge (aka The Undisputed Kings of Anvilmakers) also used a flume system (using the same dammed-up stream that supplied the water power for their trip hammers), although I don't know if they had the time and volume so carefully calculated as the Swedes.

[gewoon ik]

Look to where they manufacture big engine parts. And with big I mean oceangoing big.

Near me they have a facility that is making gears for gearboxes that goes in ships.

If you can make, heat and quench a gear with the diameter of 4m, a 300pound (135kg) block is peanuts.

It is spectacular to see them dropping the piece in oil. 

[Jclick45]

Yes I am a long way from the ocean haha, although the "drag behind the boat" idea is great! As long as something didn't come loose that would be more expensive and heartbreaking than just paying to have it treated!

[Frosty]

Like the transom? 

Frosty The Lucky.

[anvil]

I saw a youtube vid where he heat treated the new face on his anvil on the bank of a lake. He used a gin pole and a winch. Where theres a will, theres a way

[caotropheus]

Indeed I built a couple of anvils by welding together several chunks of mild steel and I hardfaced the working surfaces. In my case I only bought welding rods, angle grinder disks and the electricity, so I built for my self fairly cheap anvils.

It does not sound logic to me to take a big enough chunk of steel and machine it to an anvil shape, mass 150 kg, for all the reasons other people already pointed out.  After that, heat treatment by a specialized company is not going to be cheap.  It will be cheaper to buy a new anvil, 150 kg, from a top brand.

But well, I am no professional, not even an amateur, I just play with iron in my backyard!

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

I have seen the anvils you made and posted here. Very nice anvils indeed and should last several lifetimes.

I can't control the wind, all I can do is adjust my sails. ~ Semper Paratus