One piece rose

[TWISTEDWILLOW]

I just got done trying to make on of those one piece roll up roses,

i used 1-1/2” x 1/8” stock, cut 16” long,

I cut the petals 1-1/2” wide an 1” deep

from the top it turned out pretty but it looks kinda boxy from the sides I was wondering how y’all do them to get a better all round look,

 

 

[Frazer]

Ah, yes, the Russian rose. The best way to curl it a little tighter and avoid it becoming boxy is to make it thinner. Then you can use the step (while you're wrapping it up) and a bottom swage (at the end) to round it up further.

It may also help to make the petals a little narrower. When I form the petals I use a hardie to cut them out. This leaves the cuts with a V shape rather than the straight sided slots seen in your picture.

[George N. M.]

Instead of rolling it up straight, try to roll it sort of like a cone so that the bottom is rolled tighter than the top. Also, knock the corners off the tops of the petals and make them more rounded.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

[TWISTEDWILLOW]

I didn’t think about using the swage block that’s a good idea Frazer! 

George, I’ll knock the edges down too, 

I’ll heat it back up and unroll it an see if I can roll it up tighter, 

and I’ll see if I can get the petals a little thinner too! 

thanks for the tips yall!

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

Then apply a sepal to the under side and a leaf to the stem. BTW if that is your first Russian rose good job, you should see my first one.

[TWISTEDWILLOW]

Thanks Randy! Yes that’s my first one
 

But that rose number one didn’t work out…

i got it unrolled and straightened up and started to re roll it tighter and…. Snap…

so i started from scratch and made a second one,

I got it rolled tighter and I got the stem drawn out farther and textured alot better,

I forged the pedals thinner an I used the swage block this time to get a rounder shape, but the bottom end still doesn’t have the cone shape it’s straight across 

Ill just have to keep working at it 

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

Just about every rose I have made also snapped somewhere along the pedals. I just hit them with the wire feed welder and continued on. The first I had heard about the wrapped/Russian rose was in 1999 at Silver Dollar City up in Branson MO. There were two Russian blacksmiths there doing demonstrations and they made a couple of roses. It looked so simple.

When we got back home, the next day, I fired up the forge for the first time in ten or so years to make one from memory. Here is a picture of my third or fourth one taken years later when someone asked me for a picture of one. The link is about the Russian Blacksmiths at World Fest, it has a pdf that can be downloaded with instructions.

https://kirksullens.com/the-russian-rose/

[Frazer]

Most of mine have broken off at the start of the stem, but that's because of what I was trying to do with them (see my Rosa sapiens thread). I also first saw them at a demo, but that was a several months ago at our NYSDB meetings.

[TWISTEDWILLOW]

I just learned about them this morning lol,

I was drinking coffee on the porch before I had to run my son to daycare and I thought about Valentine’s Day coming up an I googled blacksmith rose and a video popped up so I thought I’d give it a shot this afternoon,

Randy thanks for sharing that link that’s a pretty cool story,

Frazer, I looked at your Rosa Sapiens and they are awesome! 

I’m gonna play with these an see if I can tune them In a little better

[Scott NC]

  I think your rose looks fantastic.  I tried making one a couple of times and they came out looking like a wad of crumpled up tinfoil.  I will have to try again because you and Frazer with his Rosa's have inspired me.  I have some ideas for rose themed projects now.....  

[Frazer]

One might call them.... a thorn in your side?

[TWISTEDWILLOW]

Thanks Scott, after I get a better feel for them I thought about incorporating them into other projects too,

would Frazers Rosas by any other name look as sweet?

[Steve Sells]

looks MUCH better than my first ones

[TWISTEDWILLOW]

Thanks Steve!

I’m gonna sniff around my scrap piles today and dig out some more stock to practice working with different sizes,

[Michael]

Nice work TW! I like the texturing on the petals.

Some of my archery friends, who seemed to have made enough knives, cleavers and ulus, just asked me to demonstrate a rolled russian rose.

Did a zoom call with the group a couple weeks ago,  making multiple S hooks come out the same. They are branching out to "practical, useful projects"

I made a ton of these when I started out. One thing that comes to mind (and that I'm gonna try in the next few days) is to make the initial flattened section a tapered wedge shape, so the inner petals are not as tall as the outer petals.  Not describing in well but the idea is the outer petals cover more of the inner rose.

Best of the pile from '06, two years into forging metal

 

 

[TWISTEDWILLOW]

Thanks, here’s the double pein hammer I used to do the texture, I’ve been using this little guy for a lot of projects here lately, 

that sounds like a cool project I can’t wait to see it! 

also your 06 rose looks awesome! 

[anvil]

Good project! I looked at https://kirksullens.com/the-russian-rose/ from above. Kirk is a good guy and Good Smith. 

Lol, to join the crowd, my suggestion is to draw out the top third far more than the bottom third or so. You can do this by using your cross peen and not having it land flat. angle your blow so the "bottom" side of the cross peen barely kisses the bottom of the petal and the "top" side of the cross peen is flush with the top edge of the petal and bites deeper into the petal.  Top and bottom as shown in Kirk's pdf.

[BIGGUNDOCTOR]

To get the bottom to tuck in for a more rounded shape, would making it a J shape before rolling up work? By  J i mean looking at the end profile the whole length. Plus there is a base knob (hip) and the sepals that are indexed between the petals underneath that you are missing. This can be added later, and will cover the base.

[TWISTEDWILLOW]

anvil, thanks I’ll give it a try! 

BIGGUNDOCTOR, im not quite understanding what you mean by J shape? 

[Les L]

Twisted, Great job on you first try. I agree with Frazer to use the hardie to cut the pedals and to start with smaller petals and increase the width as you go. This is a picture of my first try. I think I got lucky because the blacksmith gods knew I was making them for a gift to my mother. I watched a video from Christ Centered Ironworks and followed his directions. I used 3/16 X 1. I also break them sometimes and just weld them back together.

[TWISTEDWILLOW]

Those look awesome Les! 

I got some more 1-1/2” x 1/8” stock To practice with, 

experiment with using different cutters hardy, chisel, handled chisel and see how that looks, 

I’ll  also try starting small an working up to larger petals,

[BIGGUNDOCTOR]

TW,  forge the petals out inline like you did, then roll the entire base part over the edge of the anvil to give it a J shape (actuall more of a rounded L than a J) when looked at from the end. That should round the base of the bud up when rolled , so it won't be squared off.

[JHCC]

It's worth noting that one-piece roses do not have to be fully modeled in all dimensions. Here is one by Edgar Brandt from one of his Art Deco mirror frames:

And another from the front of one of his console tables:

These two are clearly each formed from a single bar, but Brandt also had his workers make piles and piles of "potato chips" that would later be OA welded together to make flowers of all sizes, as with the gilded detail on this firescreen:

[TWISTEDWILLOW]

Those are awesome JHCC! Thanks for sharing! I’ll have to try my hand at those sometime! 

BIGGUNDOCTOR, do you mean fold the LJ shape on the base of the petals? I’m sorry I’m still trying to understand what you mean,

[BIGGUNDOCTOR]

Yes, roll the connected base of the petals over so when it is wound up the base part is tight to the stem, and not simply hanging straight down. Then wind in a helical way so the inner petals are above the outer ones in order to keep the base of each petal tight to the stem.  In my way of thinking the inner petal would be forged shorter, and the outer ones taller - tapering bigger along the length of the bar to compensate for being wound in a tight helix.