Found Iron Blobs by old Railroad track

[C-1ToolSteel]

I was taking a stroll down some old RR tracks the other day (rail is marked 1920s I believe) and came across several quite sizable (pic is of the smallest one) blobs of what looks to me like molten iron that was poured on the ground many moons ago.  My best guess is that they were from an intermediate stage of the iron industry, being transported for further melting/casting and rolled off the train, sealing their fate as useless but historically intriguing blobs of iron.  Anyone familiar (or clueless) with the old (actually pretty new) iron-making processes want to weigh in?

[Steve Sells]

you do realize you just publicly admitted to committing a felony, by taking RR property, right?

[arkie]

Possibly runoff and slag from thermite rail welding?

[Donal Harris]

Possibly what Arkie said. But if the rails are connected by fishplates and not continuous as if all one piece, it would be doubtful. 
 

We used to walk and play along the tracks when I was a kid. It was cool waving at the engineers and such as the trains passed. We would look for whiskey bottles—there were plenty—spikes, rail anchors and coal. No way I could do that as an adult. The engineer would think I was an escaped convict or someone looking to do mischief. A deputy sheriff would be waiting for me at the next crossing. This I know from experience to be true. 

[Frosty]

What does a magnet say?

Frosty The Lucky.

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

The front 1/4 mile of my property line is an abandoned RR line that reverted back to private property (rail's & ties were torn up years before). I found a lot of old spikes, plates and such. Because the train was coal fired, I found a lot of large clinkers and coal chunks too.

[ThomasPowers]

After 9-11  things got a lot more "fussy" around Rail Roads and a lot of often archaic RR laws were enforced.  If you think about it; Railroads haul dangerous materials BY THE TON  Often right through the middle of cities.  I am not distressed by the more stringent watch on RR's. (Some of my students have had unpleasant run ins with the RR Police; yup they exist and have some very strong powers!  I tell them to do what I do and buy RR steel at the scrapyard, 20 USCents a pound is not bad compared to getting a record!

In general you don't ship items made at a steel mill to a steel mill; you would just toss them back in the input hopper.   I would wonder more about thermite and that clinker and furnace remnants were often used to make the RR road bed.

[Frosty]

As kids we'd walk the tracks looking for torpedoes, once in a while one would fall off as the train approached and not get fired. Tossing one onto a busy road was fun. You could lay one on the rail, hit it with a hammer and set it off.  One elementary school kid lost an eye and two boys with him took shrapnel, they'd stacked IIRC 3 and hit it with a hammer.

After that everybody in every school in the LA area got to sit through a film about the dangers of playing on the tracks. "Blood On The Tracks" IIRC. Lots of safety films were titled "Blood On The x x" I don't think a rail road has used torpedoes in decades. 

The last spikes I got off the tracks were given to me by a maintenance crew. 

Frosty The Lucky.

[Scott NC]

  If that's an abandoned line or spur it may be worth your time to find out who owns it and get permission.  I did that years ago and boy did it pay off.  I got it in writing with a signature btw.    It might not be so possible nowadays, though.  I found a coupler knuckle that flew off a train and got wedged on a bridge between a beam and the girder plate and it took some of my hide and a lot of poking and prying to get loose, but it was my first "anvil" for a few years.  They are not flat and probably why all my projects came out odd looking but it got me going.  There was one stretch where a train left the rails at some point in time...   I had to leave most of that hoard behind when I moved but I am keeping my eye peeled here.

[JHCC]

There’s also the difference between physically abandoned and legally abandoned. I’m no lawyer, but I think I remember reading something about railroad rights-of-way easements not automatically reverting through disuse. 

[George N. M.]

There is a federal process through the US Department of Transportation that must be followed to legally abandon a railroad right of way.  The railroad has to file a petition to abandon the railroad which is granted after a comment period if the feds don't believe that it is in the public interest for the rail line to remain available for future railroad use.

Once there is a notice of abandonment local governments have 1 year to claim the right of way for a road or trail through the Rails to Trails program.  Then, depending on  how the railroad originally obtained the right of way it reverts to private land owners.  If the right of way was acquired from a private land owner it reverts to that land owner's successor.  Often, there is a reverter clause in the grant of right of way to the railroad.  If the right of way was obtained from the United States it reverts to the successor of the adjoining land who would have had the property under the homestead act without the grant to the railroad.  If the US still owns the adjoining property it reverts to the US.  Sometimes the railroad owns the right of way property in fee which means it continues in the railroad's ownership.

That is the current process.  Old abandonments would have followed a similar process but without the federal approval procedure.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

 

[JHCC]

Wow — my memory for a legal matter was actually kinda correct. 

5 hours ago, George N. M. said:

The railroad has to file a petition

George, what happens if the railroad that was granted the right-of-way no longer exists as a legal entity?

[ThomasPowers]

I have a friend where the RR was put through his family's ranch back when the mines were running up in the hills.  When the mines stopped and the RR spur was discontinued, the RR sold their easement land to "outsiders".  Most of which have found that owning a narrow strip totally enclosed in someone else's land didn't pay off.  The ranch is gradually getting it back in tax auctions...

[JHCC]

My first fundraising job was for a seminary that had at one point been given what looked on paper to be a valuable plot of land. Whoever accepted the gift violated Rule #1 of real estate gifts, which is "Go look at it in person!" It turned out that the only "point of access" went directly over a forty-foot cliff, and none of the surrounding landowners was willing either to buy the parcel or to grant a right-of-way through their own property, making the whole parcel worthless. 

[George N. M.]

John,  my answer is a typical lawyer answer, "It depends."  If the extinct railroad was absorbed by a different railroad, e.g the Hooterville and Western was absorbed by the Pennsylvania RR, the property rights would go to the new entity.  On the other hand if the old RR just dissolved or went bankrupt the assets would have been disbursed to the stock holders or creditors.  The right of way may have been acquired by someone or it may have just been abandoned.  As real property the owner of the right of way would have had to pay property taxes on it and if they didn't it could have been sold at a tax sale or reverted to the county.  Or, if the RR had owned it in fee it could have been transferred to someone else like any other piece of property.  All of this would be recorded in the county property records but sometimes it is pretty obscure.

I would say that if the abandonment was years ago and no one has asserted any property rights to the old right of way that it would be considered abandoned and the present owner of the property burdened by the right of way is the owner.  If nothing else, he or she would have a right to it through adverse possession.  That is where someone who has asserted control of property "adversely" for a period of years can go to court and be awarded the actual title to the property. (BTW, you can't assert adverse possession against the government, only another private land owner).

In you example of the useless property with no access the seminary could have probably asserted a private right of condemnation to acquire access.  The law does not like land locked and useless parcels and there is a process to get access to anything that is isolated.  The seminary would have had to pay fair market value for an access easement but it could have been forced on the intervening property owner(s) and would have had to be done through court.  If the property had been split off from another property in the past which had access to a public road there would be an "implied easement" for access even if the deed did not mention it.

I never thought that my legal background would get a workout on a blacksmithing forum.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

[ThomasPowers]

My current house's property contains explicit easements to allow people to use a certain width on the north and west sides to travel on.  I actually do "own the road"!

My Grandfather, not the Marine, the other one,  once bought a few acres buried in a larger plot on speculation....turns out there was a corporation wanting to build a factory out there and wanted the entire plot to site it on.  They ended up paying quite a bit for Grandfathers few acres...

[arkie]

George, your scholarly comments on certain legal matters here on the forum are not only entertaining, but are of considerable value in a general sense.  You have often imparted information that the general lay person would have never considered in certain matters.  Keep 'em coming!!

[M.J.Lampert]

On 6/1/2021 at 2:54 PM, Frosty said:

As kids we'd walk the tracks looking for torpedoes, once in a while one would fall off as the train approached and not get fired.

what they transported live torpedo's via rail one would think that they would have enough sense to activate them one loaded on the vessel or is there some kind of land torpedo i dont know about?

M.J.Lampert

[ThomasPowers]

Wikipedia: A railway detonator (torpedo in North America) is a coin-sized device that is used as a loud warning signal to train drivers. It is placed on the top of the rail, usually secured with two lead straps, one on each side. When the wheel of the train passes over, it explodes, emitting a loud bang.

[George N. M.]

Yes, as Thomas says, a RR torpedo is a signalling device that goes bang when a train runs over it to signal the train crew.  They were used pre-electronic communications.  NOT, a naval torpedo used to sink ships.  During the American Civil War, 1861-65, explosive devices triggered by contact or remotely were known as torpedoes.  Modern usage would be sea or land mines.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

[M.J.Lampert]

ah ok not quite so dangerous as i thought

M.J.Lampert

[LeeJustice]

What was the purpose of that signal?  Wake up?  You are approaching a populated area.

[ThomasPowers]

STOP! DANGER AHEAD!

[LeeJustice]

Thank you

[JHCC]

16 hours ago, George N. M. said:

During the American Civil War, 1861-65, explosive devices triggered by contact or remotely were known as torpedoes.  Modern usage would be sea or land mines.

As in Admiral Farragut's (attributed) command at the Battle of Mobile Bay (1864) on being told that the harbor was mined: "[Disregard] the torpedoes! Full speed ahead!"

On 6/2/2021 at 8:38 PM, arkie said:

George, your scholarly comments on certain legal matters here on the forum are not only entertaining, but are of considerable value in a general sense. 

Heartily agree. Although not a lawyer myself (if intermittently involved in the occasional trusts and estates issue), I find the structure and internal logic of the law fascinating. Good mental exercise and a healthy corrective to some of the emotional nonsense people occasionally spout in public.

On 6/2/2021 at 2:20 PM, George N. M. said:

John,  my answer is a typical lawyer answer, "It depends." 

Well, I expected that! Thanks for laying out some of the possible situations and solutions, though. Makes a lot of sense.