Gas forge questions

[B4dWolf]

If i have a double burner and only want to use one. Should i close the air valve on the other? I am learning so please keep the negative answers to yourself.

How long should it take to get up to steel forming temp? Is 10 psi too little?

[Steve Sells]

Making demands of people to keep things to themselves isnt a good way to make friends here, you can turn off the vale for the second burner if you have one, but the foundry may have been designed for 2, and PSI depends on the burner, and how you built your foundry

[ThomasPowers]

You want to block off the burner tube not in use so that it doesn't exhaust hot gasses up into the burner area.

"How long should it take to get steel up to forging temperature?" that depends on how hot your forge is and how large your piece of steel is and how many BTUs you are putting into the forge with your burner.  If speed is a major concern than solid fuel forges are usually faster as the hot fuel is in contact and conduction is faster than radiation for heating.  Induction forges are faster still, you can count the seconds from dead cold to ready to forge with one of them!

Is 10 PSI too little?  Yes, No, Maybe depending on information not provided.  I don't use a gauge on my propane forges. I tune "by ear and by eye" to get the best burn from my set up.  You could have a 10 psi system that burns a gallon of propane an hour or one that burns a gallon of propane a  day; both at 10 psi but the details of the burner would be very different.

If you are in the USA I strongly suggest attending some ABANA affiliate meetings and see what works for the various people hosting them; bring your forge and ask for pointers on improving it. In the UK check out BABA, in Canada check out the groups that put on CanIron, in Germany the groups that put out  Hephaestus, I can't remember off the cuff the groups in France and Australia; sure would help to know what country you are in!

[B4dWolf]

I am in America. And speed isnt really an issue i was just wondering if my forge should take some time to heat to the right temp or if i needed to turn it up more. This is the first forge i have owned but i took 4 yrs of metal fab at a vocational school. It is a very basic forge. Doesnt seem to be getting hot enough.

[B4dWolf]

16 minutes ago, Steve Sells said:

Making demands of people to keep things to themselves isnt a good way to make friends here, you can turn off the vale for the second burner if you have one, but the foundry may have been designed for 2, and PSI depends on the burner, and how you built your foundry

It wasnt a demand. I have just witnessed bashing of people asking questions and am only concerned with actual information.

 

[Steve Sells]

also it seems this has nothing to do with foundry's, but gas forges, so I will move this to where it belongs

[B4dWolf]

5 minutes ago, Steve Sells said:

also it seems this has nothing to do with foundry's, but gas forges, so I will move this to where it belongs

Thanks steve. Realized afterword it was in the wrong spot. I asked mod30 to move it or delete it

[B4dWolf]

Should i use some leftover ceramic blanket to seal up the second burner? And when i said valve i meant the air wafers. Should i close that? Cant seem to take a picture capable of being posted.

[Mikey98118]

Lots of people shut down one of their burners, at times., If you decide to make the change permanent, plugging up the hole is only sensible; otherwise, probably not.

[Latticino]

It is probably best if you ask whoever you bought your forge from.  They are likely the best source of information.  

As others have hinted there are a lot of different forge and burner designs out there, and each is different.  The time it takes for a forge to get up to forging temperature varies based on exactly what chamber temperature you are looking for (some folks forge at just above dull red, others at almost white hot), how much heat your burner/s put out (BTUH), how well that heat transfers to the forge interior (long or short flame, slow or fast flame, flame path <swirl>, doors, etc., how much thermal mass your forge has (castable refractory, hardbrick, etc), and how well insulated your chamber is.  Quite a few variables, but to quantify, my single burner approximately 600 cubic inch forge with 2" of blanket and 3/4" of Kastolite liner and really good doors gets up to adequate forging temperature in under 5 minutes at 0.25 psi.  Of course that is using natural gas and a blown burner.  Yours is likely different.

 

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

1 hour ago, B4dWolf said:

I asked mod30 to move it or delete it

Most moderators don't stay logged on 24/7 so the best way to contact one is to report the post. If you look up to the right you will see ... (three dots) click on that and then report, then put in your request. As far as uploading pictures, I think there are directions in the Read This First thread. Latticino pretty much answered the same way I would have, so it saves me some typing. When you said "air wafers" I think you are talking about the chokes. Unless you can turn off the gas to the burner, I wouldn't recommend that.

[B4dWolf]

I know the picture is terrible. Could not get the size down easily

[pnut]

Is the back of the chamber open like the front? If so you're losing a lot of heat out of both openings. Some firebrick doors might help. You don't want to seal it off completely though. 

Pnut

[Frazer]

It's hard to tell from the picture, but it looks like your ceramic insulation is exposed and hasn't been rigidized. If this is the case I would strongly suggest rigidizing it, both for the longevity of your lining and more importantly to protect your lungs.

Also is that insulating firebrick on the floor of your forge or a hard firebrick? If it's the latter, that will definitely increase the amount of time/fuel required to bring your forge up to temperature. I agree with pnut, doors will also help keep some of the heat in.

 

[B4dWolf]

The back end is closed up and the ceramic is rigidized. Is it normal for the burners to get redhot at the spot where they meet the forge? The unrigidized ceramic you see is extra that i packed around the outside to hold the heat better and help direct the escaping flame

[ThomasPowers]

I am not a fan of vertical placement of burners just for the chimney effect when you turn off a burner or  turn off the forge.  You can overheat orifices and supply hoses that way. Also flame impingement on the workpiece can *cool* it depending on how the burner is tuned and spaced from the floor.

Have you looked up the New England ABANA affiliate to get some in person coaching?

[B4dWolf]

Never heard of it till yesterday to be honest. But i am looking into it. Plenty good at welding and fabrication. But i just got my first forge and its like starting all over from a toddler. 

[ThomasPowers]

When you are starting in a new field it can be very difficult to judge outside information---exp: a LOT of Youtube videos are completely bogus---but people fall for them as they don't know any better!  Same thing with random forum posts.   However on IFI, as you have noticed,  we're pretty good about critiquing things that are not good methods.  Going to an in person Demo where you can see how things are actually supposed to work helps to give you the base to judge outside information on your own.

[Latticino]

2 minutes ago, ThomasPowers said:

critiquing things that are not good methods

Tough to reconcile with specifically being requested not to give any negative answers though.

[Frosty]

Makes it hard to learn if you won't let folks point mistakes. 

Did I just violate the rule?  I'd better just stay away so I don't. 

Frosty The Lucky.

[ThomasPowers]

I've enjoyed talking with smiths in their 90's about their apprentice days and the "physical corrections" they received when they got something wrong.  How the world has changed!   The TOS keeps even our posts in line such that an old time smith would swallow their chaw in amazement!

[Frosty]

I get it, sort of. I grew up in a much softer easier world than my parents and they told stories about how much tougher their parents had it. It's getting to be too much trouble to have to spend more time wording things so as to not hurt feelings over simple things. You can't tell someone they're wrong without them reacting like you're calling them names or beating them up. Being corrected doesn't make you a victim does it?

Frosty The Lucky.

[JHCC]

A big part of the problem is the limits of the medium: without visual or auditory cues, it can be difficult to tell from the text alone what a writer's intentions may be. For someone unused to IFI's particular variety of directness, what may be a perfectly well-intentioned request for further information before answering a question (especially when accompanied by a vivid analogy) can easily come across as dismissive and browbeating sarcasm. As Adlai Stein and I were discussing on Facebook yesterday, the old timers feel like they have earned the knowledge and right to gate-keep because they forgot how much fun it was to be newbies, and the young ones are super excited and feel like they have discovered something new and secret and so don't respect the old ways. At the same time, some of the old timers haven’t adjusted to the ubiquity of knowledge in the Information Age, just as some of the young ones lack the experience of developing a manual skill and thus don’t realize the limits of mere data. A pity, when so many have the opportunity to be both better teachers and better students.

[ThomasPowers]

Tell Adlai that I still tell stories about his learning to smith!  One other factor is tha;t with experience you learn so many ways something can go wrong and sometimes do not want to share info that could lead to severe "life altering" injuries with people who don't seem to take care with what they are already doing.  (Often seen here wrt casting; molten metal is dangerous in ways smithing is not!)

[B4dWolf]

I have tried to apologize multiple times. Nothing I try to post goes through bc of moderation.

 

Mod Comment:  I personally have approved many of your posts within an hour of you making them, but if you want to be this way I will stop approving them, and let you deal with us following your accusations