Papa Rhino 240lb Anvil

[Greebe]

So I was thinking of getting one of the Holland anvils, but then found this Papa Rhino 240lb Anvil. Looks really nice. The horn being a little blunt is a little bit of a disadvantage, but other then that it looks nice. It is suppose to be hardened throughout the entire anvil to 54HRC. They are $1600 which seems reasonable for a new anvil of this size.

I started out thinking I would get the 125 double Holland, then figured might as well upgrade a few hundred dollars to a 140lb, then from there why not pay a few hundred more and get a 190lb, now thinking why not spend a few hundred more and go up to 240lbs. Slippery slope this anvil business. So I think I have up-sold myself from the $950 Holland 125lb anvil to the $1600 240lb Papa Rhino.

That do you guys think?

[ThomasPowers]

Sort of would depend on what kind of work you plan to do on it and how much of it and your budget.  

If I woke up to find my pillows stuffed with money; I'd get a NIMBA.  Do I need one? NO! Will I get one at "new" prices; *NO*!!!!

I'd like to buy a new Acciaio; just to try it out but that would double my highest cost per pound I've paid for an anvil.

[Davor]

I like it.

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

I would go with the Holland, it's large enough to do whatever the average shop needs to do.

[FlatLiner]

I've never been a fan of the papa rino's overall shape. I second the nimba comment Thomas. I drool over dreaming about getting a nimba anvil lol. But would I buy one new? Not right now. New I would go with Holland or Hoffman, h13 double horn 100 lb+ anvil. Truthfully most of us don't have the need for a 300 lb+ anvil, it's just the cool factor. 

[Greebe]

22 hours ago, ThomasPowers said:

Sort of would depend on what kind of work you plan to do on it and how much of it and your budget.  

If I woke up to find my pillows stuffed with money; I'd get a NIMBA.  Do I need one? NO! Will I get one at "new" prices; *NO*!!!!

I'd like to buy a new Acciaio; just to try it out but that would double my highest cost per pound I've paid for an anvil.

Unfortunately it is buy new or buy nothing these days. Well I could spend $1000 on an old beat up anvil, but that does not seem like a good deal when you can buy new for that. Used anvil prices are crazy these days. All those anvil collectors have goofed the market I guess. 

I am just getting back into smithing after a number of years off. I used to make mostly tomahawks for sale. I also did other small work, and occasionally larger stock up to 1" square. I like making colonial era items. Fire sets, steel strikers, axes, hawks, hardware etc.

As in my other anvil post I have an old Fisher 120lb anvil that I have had for the past 12 years. I would like to upgrade because the heal is broken off and the horn has damage as well. I have wanted a better anvil for the better part of 20 years now. I keep putting it off and they keep getting more expensive.

 

21 hours ago, Irondragon ForgeClay Works said:

I would go with the Holland, it's large enough to do whatever the average shop needs to do.

I like the Holland too. I just don't think I want the shelf on their double horn anvils. I would like a heavier anvil this time around, because my 120lb Fisher tends to walk when working heavier stock on the horn. Wish that Holland made a double horn anvil between their 125 and 260 anvils with no side shelf.

That was where I was thinking this Papa Rhino would be good. It is of decent weight to keep it from walking, and it has no side shelf. I personally like that this anvil has the step by the horn as well like the London pattern. I would not use it to cut, but I do use that step on my current anvil a lot to manipulate steel. It also has the hardie near the heal which I like since I and a righty and work with the horn to the right. That keeps the hardie away from my hammer hand.

[Greebe]

21 hours ago, FlatLiner said:

I've never been a fan of the papa rino's overall shape. I second the nimba comment Thomas. I drool over dreaming about getting a nimba anvil lol. But would I buy one new? Not right now. New I would go with Holland or Hoffman, h13 double horn 100 lb+ anvil. Truthfully most of us don't have the need for a 300 lb+ anvil, it's just the cool factor. 

What do you not like about the Papa Rhino's shape? There are two things that I think would improve it personally. A more pointed horn, and a more pointed heel. As for the Nimba anvils, I just think they look silly. They look like something off of a 1950's sci-fi. Tell me they don't!! LOL! Just messing with you guys!!

As above I do not want to go to a smaller anvil then what I already have. I suppose I could find a heavier base for my 120lb Fisher, but it just seems lighter then I want, and it walks around on my slab. A decade with this anvil and I am finding I want something in better shape and bigger.

I understand what you guys are saying about not wanting to buy right now with prices so high, but they just keep getting higher and higher each year. So the longer I wait to get something the more I will pay. I doubt that prices will ever come down. If I could find a good used anvil I would go that route, but old beat up anvils here in Minnesota are going for over a $1000 for anvils less then 100lbs. I guess I could wait to buy a new anvil, but I think that will just make me pay more.

[FlatLiner]

My anvil stopped walking around on me when I got rid of the stump and built a steel tripod stand. Used anvil prices are ridiculous. That's also why I have been looking at new anvils. I'm also not a fan of the side shelf. I prefer my anvils without one.

As to the papa rino anvil I'm not a fan of both horn shapes and the shelf. I love the look of the classic north and south German anvils. I don't mind the nimbas shao either  But that's just me. To each their own.

[Rojo Pedro]

The cost of used anvils in SOAZ is what caused me to buy new.

I like the fact that nobody has abused it but me. 
 

no regrets except I wish I had saved a bit more and bought American but I am happy with the quality and I wanted a forged anvil for some unquantified reasons. 

[George N. M.]

I think the rise is anvil prices is due less to collectors and more to a sudden rise in popularity in smithing due to the Forged in Fire and other TV programs.  A LOT of people watch those shows and are inspired to try it themselves.  I would bet that a fair number of the folk here on IFI who have started smithing in the last few years got inspired that way.  Having more people in the craft is a good thing but it drives up the cost of a limited number of used anvils.

I do have a problem with folk who have a dozen or 50 or 100 anvils in their shed or barn and use maybe 2 or 3 but its their money and their right to do what they want.  Personally, I'd start and Anvils to Poor Beginners program if I had access to a large number of anvils.  Also, I know some people who teach keep a supply of anvils to pass on to deserving students. 

In interests of full disclosure, I have 2 anvils, a 100# Vulcan that I started on 40+ years ago and a 200# Peter Wright that I got 30 years ago plus a HF 55# ASO and several improvised anvils.

Given that it is reasonably cheap to start on an improvised anvil it isn't so bad for a beginner but is more expensive for someone already in the craft to upgrade cheaply.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

[Frazer]

For me it was YouTube since I don't watch TV... But same idea. I can't really blame people for wanting to do it since it is a lot of fun and becomes very addicting. 

However, finding an anvil that's in good shape and priced reasonably can be a challenge. It took me 8 months or so to get my 151# Soderfors. It was worth the wait in the end since I got the anvil, a 4" post vise, a bench vise, a brass hammer and a bottom fuller for $700. Depending on how you price the other stuff that puts the anvil somewhere between 3-4 dollars per pound. Not bad for a cast steel anvil, even if it was made in 1920. Decent deals are out there, sometimes you just have to make a mini road trip to find them or try to talk them down off their crazy asking price. 

If I were buying new (and money wasn't an object) I would get a 275# Refflinghaus No. 58... Some day.

[FlatLiner]

What anvil did you buy Rojo Pedro?

[Greebe]

So back to my original post, mainly I am looking to see if there are any opinions on the quality of the Papa Rhino. The handful of things I have seen from people with these anvil love them. I have yet to find a bad review. The only negative I have found is that the horn is not super pointy, but then they mention it was not that big of a deal for them. I personally like that it is kind of a hybrid anvil.

Different designs suite different people and this is the design that I desire. Mostly I just wanted to see if anyone knew of the quality of the product and the service, or had first hand experience with these anvils.

Thanks,

Greebe

[Frosty]

I've never heard anything bad about a Papa Rhino. Some folk prefer a different shape but nothing bad about the quality.

One of our guys bought a Nimba because buying an old one half it's weight cost more up here shipping included.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

I did a google search like this "papa rhino iforgeiron.com" (without the quotes) and there a few threads about them going back to 2009, unfortunately the pictures on the older threads are lost but still interesting reading.

[Greebe]

21 minutes ago, Frosty said:

I've never heard anything bad about a Papa Rhino. Some folk prefer a different shape but nothing bad about the quality.

One of our guys bought a Nimba because buying an old one half it's weight cost more up here shipping included.

Frosty The Lucky.

Am I missing something about the shape? Seems like several people here have mentioned not liking the shape, but have not said why. Is there some design feature of this anvil other then the less then pointy horn that I am not seeing that would be a disadvantage in some way? Thanks!

[Frosty]

I've never struck one. I'm just saying what I've heard said, I think some of the guys here have said what they do and don't like about the shape. 

Personally I don't need a shelf, I'll make a bridge if I need something thin. Nor do I like an upsetting shelf, MAYBE if I upset a LOT of 10 lengths but I don't. Heck I've never used a double horn anvil enough to see a use for two. MAN, I live a sheltered life.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

8 minutes ago, Greebe said:

less then pointy horn

The first time you backed into one, you would realize why so many anvils have had the pointed horn blunted.

[Frosty]

SHHHHHH! Spoil sport!

Frosty The Lucky.

[Greebe]

Thanks again for all the replies. I really do appreciate it. Having only used London pattern anvils,   is there ever a time that it is better not to have the step on the face down to the horn? I personally use that step at various times when forging, but maybe I would find more uses between the face and horn with a smooth transition like the German patterns? Sorry to have so many questions, I just want to make sure I make the right decision when spending this kind of money on an anvil that I plan to be married to for the rest of my life.

[Frosty]

I use the step regularly, especially upsetting lengths to long to do on the face. I lay them in line with the horn and strike horizontally. I use the angle to start sockets, etc. I do NOT cut on it with a chisel!

Frosty The Lucky.

[Chelonian]

Personally I'm not a fan of the patterns that have an artificially wide face by having it flare out at the top like that. I prefer having a narrower working face to begin with, and I like having flat sides for some operations. I myself would go with the Holland, but I'm sure either anvil would work fine.

[Greebe]

Good points. I feel so confused. I just wanted to buy a new anvil.

I feel like I am car shopping, or even worse, work boot shopping(I have wide feet and can never find the perfect boot). Someone just buy me a big anvil that fits all my needs and I will send you a check. LOL! The money really does not worry me, I just want to get what fits my needs and is gooooood!!

Again, my thanks go out to you for your thoughts, opinions, and added confusion in selecting a new anvil. Hehe!

[ThomasPowers]

We get people reporting getting a good anvil at a great price on a fairly steady basis here.   Generally it  is by NOT hunting online from people trying to get the most money for an anvil.  My analogy is to folks looking for a wedding ring and only going to Tiffany's and then complaining that wedding rings are too expensive. I think all of my students have managed to find ones using the TPAAAT.

I currently have a half dollar bruise on my inner thigh from a nice blunt anvil horn; watching the hot metal and not where I was going; again.

I'm wearing about a 13 EEEE and I lucked onto some German Combat boots size 47 at the fleamarket. I bought 4 pairs brand new in boxes for US$3 a pair.---Nobody along the border has big fat feet and the guy was happy to sell off the ones he had bought when the Germans stopped training out of Fort Bliss in El Paso and auctioned off their exchange stuff.

[rustyanchor]

OK, got you a 300lb anvil, HB I think. Not sure exactly how much the seller wants, but it is over $5 a pound. I'll say $3000 will get it to your doorstep.

When do you want it?