bluerooster Posted October 29, 2023 Share Posted October 29, 2023 Good work Ya'll! I like the handle on the fire rake. I managed to get my anvil moved yesterday, Now I need to get a new spot for the vise. It was fastened to a stump of Poplar split longways, and set in the ground. Worked pretty well, but has gotten a bit wobbly of late. Found it to have rot starting on it where it was set in the ground. I have another Poplar that was cut down a couple of weeks ago. I can get a stump from it, that's about 3 feet across, and plenty long enough to attach my vise to. (About 38") I think it would be heavy enough to set it on some scrap PT lumber and be good to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savlaka Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 wirerabbit- thanks, it's not entirely unwelded I just didn't squish it to a full round. I welded about 1 inch of the ends solid, then twisted it all and did a light weld for a few inches on each side of where I wanted the "grip" and then untwisted the handle section. Though nowadays I do cheat a little, I tack weld the ends of the rods with my mig welder to keep it all in place while I get things started. for flux I use common borax like you get from the supermarkets laundry section (20 mule team brand in my case). But I also keep lab grade boric acid for when I need something with a stronger cleaning action... I'd like to get some powdered metal to add in, but haven't gotten around to it. You can use all kinds of things as flux, powdered glass, fine sand, and plenty of other things... But if your forge is running slightly on the fuel rich side and you clean everything well before it goes in you can weld without flux... But if it doesn't take the first try usually you gotta reclean all the scale to try again - at least in my experience Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Fox Forge Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 I just finished up a pipe tomahawk today. I forged it out of a peice of 1inch Dom pipe with ¼inch walls, slit it down the middle and forge welded a 1080 bit. The handle is charred hickory with a damascus smoke plug. I put a sliver of leather between the bowl and the handle to create a better seal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 Looks pretty good John, you're getting good at this. W. Rabbit, You can buy 20 Mule Team Borax with the laundry soap in most any supermarket in the US. If you go to a welding supply you can buy proper flux with the gas welding supplies for pretty darned reasonable. I bought a 1lb. can of Peterson's blue flux for a tad over 1/4 the price of "forge welding flux" on a nationally knows blacksmith supply. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wandering_R0gue Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 Banged out a blade this weekend. Got heat treat done, but I was second guessing myself, and ended up doing it a couple of times. I'm still trying to figure out what best temper/heat treat is for knives from this material for best edge retention and durability. Next step is adding handle and finishing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M3F Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 Lookin good! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wandering_R0gue Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 (edited) thanks, this will be my first slab-scale knife. Edited October 30, 2023 by Mod30 Remove @name tag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savlaka Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 White fox- that's a nice tomahawk,I like the Damascus plug I don't see that a lot .. one of these days I should probably try my hand at an axe, hatchet, or tomahawk. Wandering rogue- looks to be a good knife you've got there. I understand about finding the best heat treatment method for something, I don't have a heat treatment oven, so it's often a bit of a game of test and see to figure out what works best for me and my tools. Even if you know the exact prescribed method for a given steel, getting those results with the equipment you have usually requires a bit of testing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wandering_R0gue Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 (edited) I hear you. I run a charcoal forge too, so reaching, and maintaining a proper temperature gets a bit finicky. But, it is all a learning process. Edited October 30, 2023 by Mod30 Remove @name tag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad J. Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 Yesterday installed the bottle tree at an ecstatic customer's house. She'd been looking for someone to make one like that for 12 years. The little harbor frieght welder I bought has been totally worth the money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlpservicesinc Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 That looks great.. Is she going to shoot the bottles off the branches? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 Ahhh, how many times have we seen someone make this very mistake, I sure did though it wasn't a knife. What is the mistake? Putting all that time and effort, not to mention expensive blade stock into forging a knife without knowing how to heat treat it. Even if you finally get it right the repeated heating, quenching and tempering WILL take it's toll on the steel. The answer? Make test coupons BEFORE making the blade and determine the best heat treatment on small pieces, say 1/2" - 3/4" x 2" strips forged to a representative thickness. Harden ONE, test to see if it's hard enough. If yes move to the first temper test, if Not, then set it aside and test the next strip. Make thorough notes on each coupon tested, maybe even keep a few coupons for the future. Testing coupons is cheaper, faster and ZERO risk to a blade. Heck, you might discover that steel is inappropriate for forging or blades or require sophisticated heat treatment equipment. That's a nice looking blade profile My Roguely friend, I like it. It's NOT too late to make and test coupons, you'll need to anneal or at least normalize your blade but at least you'll have a heat treatment procedure that works. Chad: I'm not clear how the bottle tree works either. Do you have pictures or a link maybe? Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 Empty bottles would be slid on to the branch ends. The Origin of the Bottle Tree Most believe that bottle trees got their roots in the Congo area of Africa in the 9th Century A.D. and that the practice was brought over by slaves who hung blue bottles from trees and huts as talismans to ward off evil spirits. I can't control the wind, all I can do is adjust my sail’s. Semper Paratus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 Took me a while to find the picture of one our friend made that took 1st place (Grand Champion) at an art show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlpservicesinc Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 It was a joke of sorts.. I didn't think she was.. You guys can be too literal.. Couldn't you hear the inflection in my voice and my slanted smile on my face.. neighbor'sI can see the neighbors house in the back ground. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 I knew it was tongue in cheek. I can't control the wind, all I can do is adjust my sail’s. Semper Paratus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad J. Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 I totaly would if I didn't live in town myself now that you suggest it Jennifer. It'd make a great target holder. I actually already have some arrows stuck in my compost bin from being so out of practice with my bow. My customer does live in the middle of town as well. I doubt this will be the only one I make of these. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 Bottle trees, COOL. What I envisioned when Jennifer said "shoot them off the branches" were bottles shooting off the branches like the old pump up, water rocket toys. Now I'm thinking of all the cool plants that might make good bottle tree models. Say a bottle Yucca or maybe a bottle palm tree. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wandering_R0gue Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 Wasn't that much of a waste, frosty, but I see your point. Was made with some free coil spring, so no waste there... and, I don't consider anything a failure... simply a learning opportunity. As far as heat treat on this, I have done the same several times on a few different blades/tools with recommendation from another Smith. Able to get this one shaving sharp, so it is at least able to take an edge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 I didn't mean to imply you wasted your time I only suggested a way to do a better job and reduce risk considerably. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wandering_R0gue Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 Fair enough, ad I didn't mean to put any words in your mouth, apologies for that. I see your point 100%, but, in the learning process, I'm willing to take the risks for the sake of learning. Cannot learn without mistakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimw3326 Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 Thought I'd make some dies for the ironworker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Special Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 12 hours ago, Wandering_R0gue said: Banged out a blade this weekend. Got heat treat done, but I was second guessing myself, and ended up doing it a couple of times. I'm still trying to figure out what best temper/heat treat is for knives from this material for best edge retention and durability. Next step is adding handle and finishing. So if that's coil spring, it could be a lot of different materials, but 5160-ish is a good general guess for most coil spring. The good news is that most tend to be an oil quench with a similar heat treat: Normalize first, then heat to non-magnetic plus maybe 100 degrees, quench in oil, temper between 400 to 450 for a couple of hours. Let set from a few hours to overnight and temper again. Of course, with no coupons, that's not a sure thing, but you can test if it hardened by skating a file across it prior to tempering and listening for the glassy sound and seeing if it bites in. If it does and no glassy sound, try again with a more aggressive quench - i.e. water, then brine, then super-quench and devout prayer. Trying multiple quenches has its own issues plus increasing the chance of failure, and of course don't sell anything made from used spring as getting sued when it breaks sucks. Mystery-5160-ite tends to be more forgiving than most steels but has its own issues. For one, 5160 doesn't like to weld to itself...which meant that naturally it was the first thing I ever tried to forge weld, so I thought I was doing everything wrong for the longest time... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimw3326 Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 1 hour ago, Nobody Special said: For one, 5160 doesn't like to weld to itself...which meant that naturally it was the first thing I ever tried to forge weld, so I thought I was doing everything wrong for the longest time... This explains a few things, I wasn't aware of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 It's the chrome in 5160 that makes it harder to weld than simple high carbon steels. Chrome oxidizes almost instantly which forms a non-reactive surface layer and is a serious PITA to weld without aggressive flux usually containing fluorine compounds, fluorite I think. I had decent luck by "wet" sanding with emery cloth and 3in1 oil, the oil prevented contact between on-oxidized chrome and air. Oil also makes a good welding flux by scavenging the oxygen from the joint and steel as it approaches welding temperature. Spring steel is trickier to weld to itself but it's just a little different procedure. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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