What did you do in the shop today?

[anvil]

10 hours ago, Goods said:

I could have upset it, but I find it easier to draw out than upset

Nice handle and details. I agree with you. A long drawn out experience beats an upsetting one most always in my book.    Another approach that is quick and effective is a forgewelded collar. 

Glad you are back playing in the flame, Jen. Nice tong beginnings. Takes me back to Turley Forge,,, forge weld the first day(horse shoe sandwich) and a drop the tongs weld within the next few.

[Goods]

I’m with you on collar welding. It’s one of the forge weld I’m pretty consistent with, but this was 304SS. I don’t have the confidence or aggressive fluxes for that.

Keep it fun, 

David

[jlpservicesinc]

Why does everyone run away from "upsetting".  

Upsetting and forge welding are 2 very important skills, yet most people try to avoid them. 

It's hard to get good at something when mentally it's thought of as something to avoid. 

I embrace upsetting every chance I get..  It's how one gets better at something.  Before one knows it, it's not a big deal at all and it becomes fluid. 

Don't get me wrong there are certainly certain applications that upsetting is not the best way but it also should not be ran from. 

I do understand.. But I also know to embrace difficulty If I really want to learn from it and then it becomes nothing. 

I'm not criticizing.  I'm always hopeful people will move their skill sets forwards.  

Anvil, forge welding as you know is a basic skill and once demystified it opens all sorts of missed opportunities. 

So, the sooner it's embraced the sooner greater skills can be achieved.  For the class there will be chain,  fireplace poker, trivet and maybe a tulip hook if things go well enough. 

I was able to get the tong jaw blanks down to 3heats out of 3/4" sq while demonstrating.  Of course  there was more talking then anything else..  Took a little bit to get going again after lunch..  

It's so rewarding seeing the metal move so fluidly.   

Gazz I have attached several information sheets for the torch. Sadly I have not found an owners manual or instruction sheet.   Just advertisements. 

The unit I have was military and was charged via external air source or pump.   The Civy units had hand pumps. 
 

[Daswulf]

On something like that I would prefer to upset over drawing out that much more. It all really depends on material at hand and what you are making. 

[Frosty]

OH I WANT ONE!  A 3'x30" flame for the Senior and a 4"x36" flame for the Giant! Best of all they arre absolutely safe to use indoors or out!

I like the part about using one to thaw the coal pile or starting a fire in the stove. 

You're one lucky Lady Jennifer having one of these will save you so much work you can take up a couple new hobbies!

Frosty The  Lucky.

[Purple Bullet]

I finally got something done in my shop! After 47 days of "countin' flowers on the wall, that don't bother me at all. Playin' solitaire til dawn with a deck of 51" etcetera, etcetera. I replaced my defunct induction heater (died from my own hand by copper sulfate poisoning) with a new induction unit, this time with a ~5 gallon TIG cooler from US Solid. The induction forge was ~$800US and the cooler ~$400US, both with tax included. It should have taken about an hour to set up, but working from a knee scooter and stopping every time I broke a sweat, it took three days. Now I need to figure out a work flow without putting any weight on my right foot. Or just wait a week when I can put weight (but not walk) on it.

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

I used to hate upsetting until I saw a video by Jennifer JLP Services on making a blacksmith diamond and she made upsetting simple for me. Bob Patrick demonstrated forge welding a collar for items that would need a large upsetting. I use that technique also.

I can't control the wind, all I can do is adjust my sails. ~ Semper Paratus

[BillyBones]

This past weekend i was working on a wall sconce and at the top were 2 rings that needed to be welded. While doing them i was thinking back to my first forge weld. Then at how far i have come from doing everything possible to not have to make a forge weld to today it is just another step in the process. Although i still can not for some reason get that drop tongs down, but i have found work arounds. But something i found intimidating is now just as mundane of a task as setting a rivet or punching a hole.  

[Gazz]

Years ago, I did lots of upsetting for the boss.  We would line up bar stock on standards and the boss would direct flame from the oxy/propane rosebud to the very end.  When hot, I would take one and slam it vertically onto a large steel block on the floor.  Basically you were throwing the bar at the block and letting it rebound up though your hands.  When it got to cold to move the metal it went back on the standards for more heat and you would pick up another to upset.  This created a very fluid looking "foot" to the bar, mostly used for the bottoms of fence or gate pickets.  This was quite the workout when you had 20 or more bars to do.  I tried to find a detail shot but you can see the type of upset here.

[JHCC]

You were working for Albert Paley?

[jlpservicesinc]

5 hours ago, BillyBones said:

But something i found intimidating is now just as mundane of a task as setting a rivet or punching a hole.  

All the skills should become mundane. 

It shows mastery.

Forging to me no matter the items is all the same. 

Some just take longer based on size or complexity.  

Understanding where a skill ot technique is best used with the ability to apply it. 

the thing that im still gaga for is applying hammer blows and watching the metal move rapidly. 

Gazz, very cool.

[JHCC]

1 hour ago, Gazz said:

When hot, I would take one and slam it vertically onto a large steel block on the floor.

I think there's something in Weygers's "The Modern Blacksmith" about embedding an upsetting block in the floor. That way, it's always there and ready to go, but doesn't get in the way when not in use. Easier to set up with a dirt floor, I would imagine.

[Frosty]

Upsetting isn't my favorite process but it's not hard the controlling factors are, isolating the heat, hammer weight and striking longitudinally down the center of the bar. 

The lighter the hammer the shallower the depth of the upset. Striking off the centerline bends the stock. 

I've been hearing a couple terms, "upsetting" and "jumping up" they're synonymous but when I've taught I intuitively differentiated "jumping up" as driving the stock into the anvil or ground anvil / upsetting block. I'm not saying it's a legitimate differentiating but it slips into my conversation when I'm focused on something besides words.

Frosty The Lucky.

[jlpservicesinc]

10 hours ago, Frosty said:

OH I WANT ONE!  A 3'x30" flame for the Senior and a 4"x36" flame for the Giant! Best of all they arre absolutely safe to use indoors or out!

I like the part about using one to thaw the coal pile or starting a fire in the stove. 

You're one lucky Lady Jennifer having one of these will save you so much work you can take up a couple new hobbies!

Frosty The  Lucky.

Frosty, I've been brought up decently.. I'm willing to share mine..  

Funny.. Safe to use inside..    Inside where??? 

The potential for such a tool is perfect around the farmstead. 

I'll need to dial it in though.  

Frosting :Jumping up is used extensively in the horse shoeing trade". 

Making a smaller bar larger or section of bar larger to the next size or Jumpin it up. 

Heel calks. toe weights, laterial offset shoe.. Etc, etc. 

the old farriers would only care 2 sizes of stock in the truck.   So,  Lots of jumping up was done. 

[Frosty]

I appreciate it, thank you. 

I've heard "jumping up" used by smiths other than farriers but wasn't aware it's a common shoeing term. It's in my mental dictionary, thanks.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Daswulf]

Lets see if I can get this and more stuff done tomorrow. Got a show coming up on the 1st. Cut masonry nail crosses usually sell well so I have been making some. Need some new sculptures for table fodder as well. 

[Gazz]

JHCC, yes I did work for him.  I also studied metalsmithing as in jewelry making, holloware etc. with him before working for him.  I did not work on the fence I added the picture of though as that was made before I worked for him.  It was quite an experience.

[JHCC]

I would imagine so!

[anvil]

On 6/26/2023 at 1:44 PM, jlpservicesinc said:

Why does everyone run away from "upsetting".  

You misunderstand, the real deal is realizing that whatever technique you choose, each creates its own aesthetic. You can get there using any, in this case, of the three, but each will get there more efficient, depending on what your final "look" is that you want. . In this case, if you want a long gentile tapering transition from say 5/8" square to a boss over a couple of inches,, then a upset is perfect, but if you want a real tight inside transition from boss to parent stock, then a welded collar is quicker and just automatically makes it happen. If you want a nice rounded say 1/4" radius on the inside transition, then using a spring fuller or your hammer and the edge of the anvil is the way. 

This is the reason we blacksmiths move iron, and just don't fabricate it, to get these different affects in our final product. 

And this, Jen, leads into another way we often end a "debate" on different ways of doing things and "whats best",,, Theres almost always more than one way to do anything, but rarely are all ways created equal.  So, all three techniques need to be mastered so that the choice isn't "difficulty", but "how do I want it to look". 

But without a doubt, I prefer to draw out over upset when there is no reason that one is better than another.

JHCC, I have an upsetting block buried in front of my anvil for just that purpose. And, lol, I do have a dirt floor.

Gazz, pretty cool experience working for Paley! I've had that pic on my wall for inspiration for decades.

 

[jlpservicesinc]

1 hour ago, anvil said:

You misunderstand, the real deal is realizing that whatever technique you choose, each creates its own aesthetic. 

Anvil.

If it's how you create the  aestheticics you want then you can't be wrong. 

They are how you get there and from what you have said you get the results your after.

How can one argue or point out a wrong or right value or attribute.   It's how you get there. Kudos. 

I use my varied skills to get the acitics I'm after. It's pretty simple.

More than likely we are saying the same thing  or not. 

Don't really know. 

Hugs to you.

[Scott NC]

  Is that a small guitar or am I seeing things?

[Frosty]

Looks like a tiny guitar to me too Scott. Aric?

Frosty The Lucky.

[JHCC]

Yes, you are seeing things. One of them is a small guitar.

[alexandr]

As usual, I do several jobs at the same time.

[Daswulf]

1 hour ago, JHCC said:

One of them is a small guitar.

Yup. Had someone mention smaller scale guitars at a show. Thought I would give it a try. Didn't work out quite like i would have liked but it did work out. 

Thinking they could make good bottle openers with a a little more effort. 

Alexandr, beautiful work as always.