South german anvil ID

[tylerdewitt]

Snagged this south german anvil which come up rarely in my area. It was painted, and I should clean it more to be sure, but it would appear the only mark is the weight. Face is very hard. Any info regarding age,make,history appreciated.
155kg, 5 1/4 inch face, 13" tall. 

Edited March 11, 2020 by Mod30
Resize large photos.

[tanglediver]

Nice find, that will keep you busy for a bit! 

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

14 hours ago, tylerdewitt said:

rarely in my area

Where might that be, knowing may help with an ID? Have you read this thread?  READ THIS FIRST   It addresses using the forum with tips like editing your profile to show you location, resizing large pictures, using the quote feature and others that could help with staying off the moderators radar.

[tylerdewitt]

Updated my profile location to Toronto Canada. Thanks for resizing photos, will keep that in mind next time.

[Old Crew]

I have a beautiful 559# south German anvil with a side wing and an upset block

it also is s unmarked except for the kilo weight stamp

I was told that many of the anvils produced in Germany during both world wars were unmarked except for weight. I don’t know if that is true or not but it does make sense. The company’s were pressed into service so why take the extra time or provide something with their brand.

i also have a 442#   S and H  or Soding  und  Halbach  anvil.  The shape and details look almost identical to its larger brother but it has their logo the weight in kilos and the date of manufacture all stamped into it.  The smaller one was made in 1910

both have excellent rebound you will enjoy your new anvil even if you can’t find out exactly who made it . There were quite a few good anvil makers in Germany and from what I have seen each had a slightly different style so you might be able to make an accurate guess by comparing yours with ones that look the same and are branded

[Chris C]

I get kind of sick at my stomach every time someone says the have heavy anvils such as yours, Old Crew.    Took me quite a while to find my "little" 100# Fisher.  Haven't gotten to use it yet, but it's going to have to do unless I find a monster anvil left at my front gate out by the road some day...................which is most highly unlikely.  But I sure do drool when I hear about or see one of those big brutes. 

[Old Crew]

Chris

I have a small but active steel fab business. At the end of each year I look at the books. If we have had a good year I can either pay more taxes or I can purchase equipment. So I am in the fortunate position that the business can buy me toys (tools) and I can write them off. I purchased both anvils and a large double leg post vice . The anvils were a little less than 3$ per pound and the vices was about 505 plus freight . it’s biggg.

The  S and H anvil I bought as a project the side wing has some damage. My plan is to repair it with the Gunther - Shuler method and resell it to recoup some of the costs. Everyone here is very negative about anvil repair and I understand that most people that are on the site or view the site are not capable of doing the repair correctly . Having been a certified welder since 1985 I am going to give it a go.

As for your anvil  the things I have seen that you have posted have been knives. They have been very nice your attention to detail and woodworking skill are excellent. When you start forging your own blades I am sure that you will have enough anvil.

Keep making beautiful things with what you have plenty of.

Talent and a desire to create good things.

[Chris C]

Old Crew, I fully understand.  My family owned a Plastic Manufacturing business that never paid taxes.  We bought equipment and paid our employees exorbitant bonuses.  One year was so good we gave every hourly employee a bonus equaling their yearly income from the plant. Mighty proud of that.  But I didn't get to buy toys.  (of course, I wasn't hoping to become a blacksmith or bladesmith back then) 

25 minutes ago, Old Crew said:

As for your anvil  the things I have seen that you have posted have been knives. They have been very nice your attention to detail and woodworking skill are excellent. When you start forging your own blades I am sure that you will have enough anvil.

Thank you for the compliment.  My knives are forged, Old Crew.............just don't have my own forge up and running yet.  I'm still at the borrowing/mooching stage.    (though I hope to have that corrected this week or next)

[ThomasPowers]

Having seen so many anvils trashed by bad repairs, I was totally down on them---Until SOFA moved to their new building that included a multi forge set up for use around meetings and for classes.  I was amazed at how many *MINT* anvils they had managed to find only to learn they were all repaired CORRECTLY and after many years, several decades now, they have held up well.  Now I will take anvils to an anvil repair day put on by my local ABANA Affiliate who will do it *right*.

OTOH I am still very down on folks who tell me that a local machinist or welder wants to re-do their anvil...

[Marc1]

6 hours ago, ThomasPowers said:

OTOH I am still very down on folks who tell me that a local machinist or welder wants to re-do their anvil...

But but ... don't you need sharp edges and flat face and needle sharp horn? 

[Old Crew]

I have not so much as wire brushed any part of my larger anvil.  It feels like the horn is needle sharp. Last week is was walking past the anvil before I got to it someone distracted me. I spoke to them for a couple minutes  turned around and rammed my thigh into the horn. I have a bruise the size of a softball with a small round dot in the middle. The horn comes to a point slightly smaller that my pinky finger.

The anvil that might need repair or possibly surgery has had the side wing abused. The hard plate is damaged at the front of the wing and where the wing was forge welded to the body of the anvil is cracked on one side. The rest of the anvil is in good shape. So there are 3 options    Leave it alone    Fix it   or remove the side shelf

[ThomasPowers]

I've seen a lot of anvils where the tip of the horn has been crudely pounded flat.  I've often thought that they might have been involved in an incident like yours Old Crew.   Look on the bright side, could have been several inches over!

[tanglediver]

My first good quality anvil, (a 99# Mousehole still in moth balls), has suffered blunt force trauma accompanied by slight mushrooming to the tip of the horn. I came very close to sanding down the mushroom, then stopped short. 

 

My only question regarding repairs has to do with rod selection, EXACT rod selection. I started late in life into welding, but things got heated up when both the weldors from work left for greener pastures. I vote, (even though no vote was called for), for a weld repair to old crews side shelf. The Stoody 'hardfacing' rods I chose lead to spiderweb cracking.

[CtG]

Which rods? 

The high abrasion resistive ones almost always spiderweb from my experience. The high impact resistant ones have been less likely from my experience, if you keep runs short. 

http://www.anvilmag.com/smith/anvilres.htm

 

Seems to be the accepted method, has specific rod number recommendations.

[Nobody Special]

For ID, you might hit up technicus joe/ joey van der steeg.  He hangs out here occasionally, as well as the book of faces on the blacksmithing forums, and he kind of has a passion for german anvils.  

[Old Crew]

This is the horn of the anvil upon which I unhappily impaled my thigh

[Chris C]

Ah-h-h-h-h, "blunt" impaling.  Not a pleasant thing, to say the least.  I'd rather be impaled with a pick.

[Old Crew]

Here are a couple pictures of the anvil that I may or may not repair.

It is an S and H  made in 1911 Every thing on it is in good shape except for the side wing. Below on the upset block it is marked with the weight 210 KG and the  marking N 25 I believe that might be the style?  Under the makers mark I think the N 25 is there again just worn.

Here are pictures of the damage. I had originally thought that the only damage was the portion of the hard plate at the edge of the wing was gone. 

[Old Crew]

Upon closer inspection there is a crack that runs the full height of the wing on one side. The crack does not run under the wing where it attaches to the main body. At some point someone put some type of filler in the crack possibly to disguise the damage ?

[Frosty]

Oooh OUCH  Old Crew! Better than being impaled by a 2" x 4" anyway. 

I've given myself some darned deep bruises on my anvil's horn and it's frighteningly pointy, think lightly worn pencil eraser. But actually impaling myself is making me cringe when I think about it. How long did you limp?

Frosty The Lucky.

[Old Crew]

I only limped for a day or so but it hurt for several and the bruise took about 2 weeks to fade.

[Frosty]

So it didn't break the skin and penetrate. Impale sort of implies bleeding and stitches you know. No matter how much it feels like you've been pierced for a door knocker.

The Sorceress has made me limp for a couple days and left her mark for weeks too and it didn't take much of a bump. I must say though, I haven't walked into an anvil horn since her second lesson. You just become so much more aware of things that hurt that much.

Frosty The Lucky. 

[Les L]

On ‎3‎/‎15‎/‎2020 at 1:59 AM, tanglediver said:

 suffered blunt force trauma accompanied by slight mushrooming to the tip of the horn.

Mine is like this also, I have seen several Mouse Holes with the horn looking the same and was wondering if it was a factory feature or just caused by work.

[ThomasPowers]

I have seen a large number of anvils of a large number of different brands with mushroomed horn tips.  My take is that it is probably a combination of trying to use the tip for drifting a punched or slit hole larger and what happens when you accidentally slam a sharp tip of an anvil horn into your upper thigh or crotch while holding a hammer in your hand....

Accordingly I suggest to smiths that if they need a fairly fine point to work with; they make a Bick for their hardy hole and use it rather than re-dress the point back and run the risk of the second aforementioned  hazard!  (I have seen putting a red rubber clown nose on the end of the horn to warn/buffer the point as well.)

[Judson Yaggy]

Sherman blunted all the horns!  

Citations needed before suggesting that purposeful abuse was more likely than the very common exercise of using the tip to enlarge an eye or turn a small curve, weld a whatnot, use it as a small fuller.  We all miss sometimes, I suggest that in 100 or 200 years of 12 hours a day 6 days a week use mis-strikes happened frequently.  As modern smiths we underestimate wildly how often an anvil in a production shop was struck.  2000 times a day?  10,00?  With strikers?  No wonder we see worn tools!

Also some anvils were made with blunter horns, look at some of the German anvils.

Bicks are bouncy, lack mass, and inefficient for forging.  They do work well for some operations, but given the choice I'll work over the tip of the horn any day.  And would fire/kick out of the shop any apprentice or journeyperson who purposely degraded a well made tool.