Bjorn makes sharp things. My beginners log book

[Frazer]

We string them along quite nicely.

[Buzzkill]

11 hours ago, Bonnskij said:

Looks like there's a danger of crack formation when welding o1 and I know absolutely nothing about welding.

A couple things:  First off O1 can air harden in thin cross sections.  I've had this happen a few times.  It becomes quite evident when you attempt to drill holes for scale pins and the drill bits just scream at you.

Secondly, the rate of thermal expansion/shrinkage for O1 and mild steel are not the same.  When doing a san mai technique with mild steel on the outside, you really want that central core to be twice the thickness (or more) compared to one of the jacket layers.  The mild steel can literally pull the hardenable steel apart.  I've seen it a couple times where the layers welded together fine, but the hardenable steel core cracked right in the middle rather than at the weld seams.  So again, the way to reduce the likelihood of that happening is using a thicker core and thinner outer layers.

Hope that helps.  Gouda luck!

[Bonnskij]

I don't think I have much to contribute in the whey of cheese related puns, and that's probably just as duddleswell. 

I chose to weld instead of flux for a couple of reasons. I just wanted to try a different approach, I thought I'd have less chance of having parts of my bill oxidise and not weld properly and the flux accumulating on the floor of my forge is getting a bit annoying when I'm not forge welding. 

Thanks for the advise Buzzkill.  I'll keep that in mind for sure. As it stands all my mild steel is either the same thickness or thicker than any high carbon steel I have.

[Buzzkill]

You can always double up the high carbon steel in the middle.  It's another forge weld seam and another potential failure point, but when properly forge welded, two pieces of the same alloy become one solid piece of that alloy.

[Bonnskij]

That is always an option. However I'm forging the billet down to around 3mm, and with mild steel moving easier than o1 under the hammer, don't i risk the mild steel being barely present at the end of the forging?

[Buzzkill]

Sure, it's always a risk with multiple layers.  Keeping the core centered in the billet can be a challenge and takes some practice.  Also, if you grind your bevels rather than forging them you are even more likely to remove a lot of the outer layers.  

In general it's easier to get good forge welds on small surface areas and then draw out the billet rather than trying to forge weld a billet close to your final dimensions.   I prefer billets to start out around 1.5 inches wide and 4 inches long personally.  The size of the finished product, or the number of layers desired in pattern welded billets, determines how thick it needs to be at the start.

Are you doing this technique just for practice, or are you trying for a soft outer shell for toughness purposes?

[Bonnskij]

With the billets being as thin as they are i will probably grind the bevels on these ones. I will leave the sides rough forged though, so there will be plenty of mild steel on the sides.

As for the reason. A little bit of everything I suppose. I think I'm in a sense finding my little niche that I like to focus my forging on, and as far as blades go that is mainly Scandinavian style wood working and outdoor knives (and other bladed tools). Laminated steel is a common feature of many typical Scandinavian knives and so I'm attempting to make a few. I'm not sure the laminated nature of the knives matters much when it comes to something like a sløyd blade that I will be making here, or whether it makes much of a difference when using modern steels for that matter, but I think it makes a nice talking point (and opens up for inlay work later on).

[Bonnskij]

Well here's a problem: I like to finish knives with hand files, but the o1 core has indeed air hardened, so all my files skates off. Bites fine on the jacket though so my attempt filed the jacket and buffed the core. Bit annoying,  but it certainly answered some questions I had about carbon migration. 

(And looking at the photo I took again, I'm seeing where my daughter put the fenugreek jar...)

[JHCC]

Don’t lose the fenugreek!

[Bonnskij]

Certainly won't! Key curry ingredient.  No spice left behind!

[Buzzkill]

You'll need to do some type of annealing to soften up the O1 core.  I suggest heating it up until it's barely glowing but still magnetic and then letting it cool slowly.  This is sometimes referred to as a "sub-critical annealing" process.  It won't be as machinable as the annealing process on an O1 spec sheet would provide, but it should allow you to do your file work and/or drilling.

As for carbon migration, you'd probably have to fold and forge weld 3 or more times before the carbon content is dispersed more or less evenly throughout the billet, but with mild steel being one of the alloys you'd probably end up with a billet unsuitable for keeping a decent edge.

[Bonnskij]

Might have to do something like that. I'm not doing any decorative file work or drilling the tang though, so I'll see if I can get away with finishing the blade shape on the grinder. I'm just better with files than power tools that's all.

I'm recalling a discussion on bladesmithsforum based on a research paper indicating carbon migration happens extremely quickly and that you'd need a layer of nickel between the steel layers to prevent it.  Based on my own anecdotes that doesnseem to be right however.

[ThomasPowers]

Carbon Migration is a function of heat and thickness.  I remember that in thin layers 4 times to welding heat should equalize the carbon across the layers if a carbon blocker is not used.  It's sort of like all the people claiming that forging adds carbon to an alloy---not taking in account that they are probably scaling off steel faster than carbon is migrating into it.

[Bonnskij]

How thin layers are we talking? I would have thought that the carbon would be fairly equalised in that case, yet the core is far harder than the jacket. Could it be due to formation of tungsten carbides in the core steel? (Presumably tungsten doesn't migrate, or at least not at the same rate).

[ThomasPowers]

Well most of my pattern welded blades would be several hundred layers per inch.

[Bonnskij]

Aah. Well that makes a lot more sense that carbon content would equalise fairly quickly in a billet with hundreds of thin layers. Presumably not something I have to worry about with my three layers.

Today I put the billets back in the forge,  brought up to non-magnetic and turned off the forge while insulating as best as I could with the billets still inside. After a quick test, files seem to bite on the core now.

[Bonnskij]

Well I've been made redundant,  so that's absolutely wonderful...

Nevertheless,  man's gotta eat. As does everyone else in the household. Among other ventures I'll attempt a couple of markets before Christmas.  I might not have the skill of most people on here, but at the end of the day, I do like how many of my things looks and with any luck, so does somebody else. And as it turns out there's not a lot of competition in the tropical blacksmith scene.

Here's a few of the things I've finished/ am still working on:

[BIGGUNDOCTOR]

Well that sucks about your job. What field are you in?

Look around your area for a niche that you can fill.  A local pottery studio made plates for a local restaurant. I have another potter friend who has made coffee mugs for a local business. Where I am horses are a big deal as well as other livestock, so items geared towards them might sell well.  Being in OZ  - if the stereotypes are correct -anything beer related could be a good seller.

Try some forks with the tines about half as far apart, as they are a bit more useful all around.  BBQ skewers are an easily made item that doesn't require a lot of stock. Flatter works a bit better as the food does not spin when flipped like with round ones. Campfire forks are fun, the type used for cooking hotdogs, marshmallows, corn.

Maybe decorative wire covid mask hooks that go around the back of the head, and take the strain off of the ears.

 

[Bonnskij]

Yeah. It's a bit of a depressing and surprising turn of events. I'm the last remaining technical staff at the department and the decision to let me go to save money was made by people 400km away from here and earning ten times as much as me. Sounds sensible aye?

I'm in science, but have been accumulating experience that I was hoping I could use to eventually pivot into aquaculture. 

The stereotypes aren't wrong! BBQ's are a big thing here too. Thanks for the tips on the forks and skewers. I'll give it a crack. Hopefully I'll get a good idea of what will sell or not after the first market. I've got about a month to prepare. My contract runs out at the end of the year, so I guess I've got some time to look for a new job too, although the job market is a bit bare bones in my field(s).

[George N. M.]

One thing to be aware of at flea markets and various special events is that you can saturate the market with your goods.  Because we make "durable" goods people do not wear our stuff out and need new ones.  I have gone to local events like an Octoberfest and done very well the first year, OK the 2d year, and poorly the 3 year.  The same people come to the same events each year and unless they are looking for gifts for 3d persons  they have already bought as much of my stuff as they need/want.

The best events are large one where there is a lot of traffic and turnover from day to day and year to year.  They are harder to saturate.

Good luck on your day job hunt.  I had to completely redirect my career mid-life.  I had been a geologist for years and in the early '80s the bottom fell out of the oil and gas and minerals industries.  I ended up going to law school.  What a long, strange journey it has been.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

[ThomasPowers]

Same crash; put me in comp sci after a year unemployed, a year apprenticed to a swordmaker and a couple of years working in a factory.

[Bonnskij]

Good point George. I do take pride in the fact that I make everything with the intent to last for ever, however bad that may be for consistent business over the years. Hoping to capture the christmas gift hunters for the markets. I was a bit late to the party, so I didn't get a spot for most of them, but hopefully a couple will do.

And who knows what new adventures life has in store. I may not have to bank on a second or third year either. Contract runs until the end of the year, and I get 11 weeks severance pay. I also have another couple of small baskets of eggs. I was three weeks away from being able to access my long-service leave though, which really rubs me the wrong way.

And thanks. I don't enjoy the job hunt, but I suppose it's something we all have to do at times. Might be an opportunity or necessity to change my career trajectory.

[George N. M.]

I've always felt that the durable nature of what we make is a minor form of immortality.  I feel that I put a little of myself into everything I make and that bit of me will still be there long after the rest of me is gone.  Maybe that is why I use a touchmark, it ties the piece to me.

"By hammer and hand all arts o stand."

[BIGGUNDOCTOR]

Don't be afraid to look at a new path. I was trained as a machinist, but since I entered the workforce I have worked as a machinist , owned my own machine and fab shop, worked in a foundry, worked as an automotive lift tech, worked at the Jelly Belly Candy Co as all around plant maintenance, warehouse manager for a machine gun dealer, tool maker for a CNC shop, plant maintenance for a commercial bakery, and currently plant maintenance for TH Foods a division of Mitsubishi Industries - we make the Blue Diamond and Crunchmaster snack crackers and go through around 70,000# of rice a day.  I am making the most I ever have pay wise, have really good benefits, yet I have this urge to start another business.  It has been tough punching a clock for others since I closed my shop in 93 when I was 28 years old. Wow, typing that just hit me...that was half of my life ago, as I am 56 now. The business I wanted to get started here before the building was sold was totally unrelated to anything I have yet done. It was to be somewhat of a social hub for my small community.  Whatever you look at doing, make sure you will be happy doing it. I don't care how much you are making money wise, if you are not happy , it isn't worth it.

[George N. M.]

And the size of the paycheck isn't the only criteria for a job or a career IMO.  A person has to feel that they are doing something worthwhile and is satisfying and rewarding in an emotional sense.  Your work environment, people and physically has to be at least OK if not actually pleasant.  It needs to be something you look forward to doing when you get up in the morning.

And you need to be somewhere geographically that you enjoy.  I grew up on the South Side of Chicago and my father never understood why I wanted to go and stay in the West.  Chicago was where the money was and that was about all that mattered for him.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."