Bonnskij Posted May 12, 2021 Author Share Posted May 12, 2021 Didn't manage to find the prune people viking book, but did find the tre tryckare one (Sounds Swedish. In Swedish it would translate to "Three printers" I believe). Looks like a good one. Irondragon: No I can't seem to see any difference between it and steel. The rust pattern is also dimpled rather than the fibrous pattern you'd expect. Thomas: So far I'm doing a pretty poor job of identifying anything based on sparks. This morning I was grinding down a piece of the wagon tyre with a flap disc to prepare for etching and decided to hit a piece of spring steel as well to compare, but couldn't really make out a difference. I have attempted to etch in vinegar, hot vinegar, hot vinegar and salt, apple cider vinegar, coffee and lime juice without much success. I currently have a couple of pieces in a solution of hydrochloric acid out the back, so if that doesn't work I'm out of ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonnskij Posted May 12, 2021 Author Share Posted May 12, 2021 Well my pieces have come out of the acid bath and... I'm not entirely sure what to make of it. The smallest piece is surely not wrought iron. Unsure about the larger one, but i know i did a poor job of sanding and prepping that one for lack of time. Interestingly the smaller wagon tire appears to be mild steel wrapped around a high carbon core. Anybody have any insights on that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted May 12, 2021 Share Posted May 12, 2021 That is interesting! (and the Tre T book is the "prune people" book just look at the drawings of people's faces!) The best way to learn the spark test is to get a series of *KNOWN* alloy samples and using the same equipment compare spark patterns one to one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonnskij Posted May 12, 2021 Author Share Posted May 12, 2021 Aah I see. I was only able to find a picture of the front page and a few pages from inside the book without any people on them, so I didn't see many faces. I also found a book that was just called "The prune people" and it just left me mighty confused. I have only three known alloys in my steel library. But it's a start! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted May 12, 2021 Share Posted May 12, 2021 Reading Norse Mythology leaves me confused. Then again any mythology is confusing. Weird wagon tyre. Maybe it was something that just resembled a wagon tyre? No idea what that may have been but the voices brought up the idea. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonnskij Posted May 12, 2021 Author Share Posted May 12, 2021 It's for sure confusing. I do love it though. Recently read Neil Gaiman's book on Norse mythology and Stephen Fry's book on Greek. Can highly recommend both. It's strange for sure. Judging by the curve it would be the right circumference. It seems rather narrow though. That being said I don't know how narrow wagon wheels could get. It also has a hole in it that seems to be for a bolt of sorts. I don't know if wagon tires ever had that? Could it be from the suspension of a wagon? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted May 12, 2021 Share Posted May 12, 2021 Buggy tyres can be quite narrow. Bolt holes are fairly common. I'll measure the one I got last Saturday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonnskij Posted May 13, 2021 Author Share Posted May 13, 2021 Great! Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 16 hours ago, Bonnskij said: Neil Gaiman's book on Norse Yes, I have the audio release on my Kindle, as well as Scott Lewis's "Mythology: Mega Collection" audio release. The parallels in mythologies makes common events pretty hard to deny. Asian mythologies even have some common elements. The "Mega Collection" is literally a collection of texts and is best taken in stages with a lack of distractions. It was expensive but worth it if you like long in depth texts. Heck, both were expensive and worth it. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonnskij Posted May 15, 2021 Author Share Posted May 15, 2021 My library is going to be so great thanks to you guys. Do you have any examples of parallels? Long ago I used to think most ancient peoples hardly knew of each other and had little interaction. But clearly that's not true, so there was probably a lot of sharing of myths as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnut Posted May 15, 2021 Share Posted May 15, 2021 1 hour ago, Bonnskij said: so there was probably a lot of sharing of myths as well. Or natural events that were happening across cultures that needed explaining like comets etc. Pnut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonnskij Posted May 15, 2021 Author Share Posted May 15, 2021 1 hour ago, pnut said: Or natural events that were happening across cultures that needed explaining like comets etc. Pnut For sure. The Australian aboriginal peoples actually have oral traditions detailing the end of the last ice age. Wonder if other cultures have something of the same sort. (I don't think there is any stories older than the First Australians have, but it would be an interesting comparison). For the record, currently reading little bits of Konungs skuggsja, or the Kings mirror/ Speculum regale, and the insights of the author into the workings of the natural world is very fascinating. I guess that's a bit off topic, but thought it worth mentioning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnut Posted May 15, 2021 Share Posted May 15, 2021 I read an article a few years ago about the Irish god Lugh and how the stories may have been inspired by a comet. I'll post a link if I can find it. I enjoy reading about mythology. Since humans are pretty much the same everywhere across the globe so are their archetypes. Pnut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted May 15, 2021 Share Posted May 15, 2021 The Greek through Roman pantheon and origin stories have parallels throughout Eurasia dating back to the Younger Dryas. The asteroid impact event that caused the Younger Dryas is noted in mythology world wide as is the mini ice age that resulted. I don't know if "parallels" is the right term but boy does much of the mythology sound suspiciously similar. The Younger Dryas impact hypothesis has strong evidence for a cometary or asteroidal air burst and many impacts across the North American region and to a lesser degree the Northern Hemisphere. Much of very early mythology contains descriptions and "explanations" of and for such an event. The archeological and geologic evidence for a flood wiping out "civilizations" along the Black Sea, while controversial is growing. There is also evidence the Mediterranean sea enjoyed a similar deluge when continental drift or similar separated Africa and Spain allowing the Atlantic Ocean passage to the well below sea level Mediterranean basin. I haven't read much about that event but I don't think it was late enough to be part of the human mythos. But maybe, some folk think so. I haven't "researched" these things but I notice similarities and parallels reading. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonnskij Posted May 25, 2021 Author Share Posted May 25, 2021 On 5/16/2021 at 1:16 AM, pnut said: I read an article a few years ago about the Irish god Lugh and how the stories may have been inspired by a comet. I'll post a link if I can find it. I enjoy reading about mythology. Since humans are pretty much the same everywhere across the globe so are their archetypes. Pnut I would be very interested in reading about that. On 5/16/2021 at 2:21 AM, Frosty said: The Greek through Roman pantheon and origin stories have parallels throughout Eurasia dating back to the Younger Dryas. The asteroid impact event that caused the Younger Dryas is noted in mythology world wide as is the mini ice age that resulted. That's all very interesting as well. Would that all have survived as oral traditions through thousands of years do you reckon? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLAG Posted May 25, 2021 Share Posted May 25, 2021 For those interested in the subject. Check out the Gilgamesh Epic, and the flood story. And, also, Dr. Finkelstein's translations of some of the British Museum's vast collection of cuneiform tablets. (more than 400,00 tablets).. SLAG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonnskij Posted May 26, 2021 Author Share Posted May 26, 2021 400 000 tablets?? I hope it's large font, otherwise I'll be reading for a while. Thanks for the suggestions. Some of the things I've been working on. The old viking knives are finished. I decided to finish those with files and a natural stone, figuring there wasn't much sandpaper around 1000 years ago (I don't know how authentic my finish is, but i'm trying). The stone was a Japanese aka-monzen (I think) and has left a pretty dark patina. The kitchen knife should be just about ready for the quench, but I'll fit the handle first. The kiridashis need a bit more time on the files before going in the quench. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonnskij Posted May 28, 2021 Author Share Posted May 28, 2021 Thought I'd just post a glamour shot of the first curved knife. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonnskij Posted May 31, 2021 Author Share Posted May 31, 2021 Picked up a bunch of spanners on a garage sale that I'm wanting to make hooks with. Mostly chrome plated it would seem. Now I've heard a lot of talk about the dangers of chromium poisoning, hexavalent chromium, chromium fumes and the likes. I have spent a few days reading about the subjects and believe I know how to take reasonable precautions. Crucially: -Coating is most likely trivalent chromium, but readily converts to hexavalent chromium at the highest rate between 200 and 300 degrees celsius. -Hexavalent chromium reduces in the presence of organic material (That would be hoomans, but also many other things). -The vapour pressure of chromium is 1 P at 1656 K. If there is something I might be missing here. Please do let me know. I don't want to play silly buggers with my own or others health. Also, I know I am being a bit vague. I do not wish to provide any advice that could put others in danger should I be mistaken and others choose to follow it. Chemistry and medicine are not my fields of science. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted May 31, 2021 Share Posted May 31, 2021 Stripping it in an acid bath is I believe the second safest method of removing chrome plating. The safest method is taking it to a plating shop and having them strip it. The platers will charge of course but it might be cheaper than disposing of the acid containing the chrome nickel and copper safely yourself. It gets pretty toxic you know. I don't recall if vinegar will work. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonnskij Posted May 31, 2021 Author Share Posted May 31, 2021 Thanks Frosty. That does indeed seem to be the case. And yes. I don't know how I would deal with the acid solution afterwards. Can't just neautralise and pour down the sink for that mix I reckon. But there's copper in it? I thought it was just a vanishingly thin layer of chromium on top of Nickel. I tried vinegar (at least I think I did). Didn't seem to do much, but then again. For all I know the chromium could have been stripped away and the nickel could still be there. (The nickel remains shiny right?) I often see it reckommended to grind the plating away, but that seems to be an exceedingly bad idea. It would probably make more airborne chromium particles than if it was forged as is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted May 31, 2021 Share Posted May 31, 2021 Most steel, iron, etc. is plated with copper before other metals. Copper plays well with most other metals so it plates steel well and others plate to it well. I spent some time talking to the guys at the plating shop when I had a custom bumper plated. I was really surprised to discover it'd take 3 sessions in 3 different tanks. Something occurred to me just now, plating is electrolysis using an electrolyte containing metal salts and a sacrificial anode. The current flow carries ion and sticks them to the cathode. Sooooo, I wonder if you were to connect a chromed wrench to the Anode and something you don't mind collecting chrome, nickel and copper to the cathode with an electrolyte, dilute sulfuric acid comes to mind but vinegar might work well ad be less a hazmat hassle. I'm betting with in excess of 50,000 members there are a couple guys who can set me straight on the idea or confirm it. I'm good with whatever, I'd much rather see a correction and know I'm wrong than think I'm right. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonnskij Posted June 1, 2021 Author Share Posted June 1, 2021 That is certainly something that I didn't find during my sleuthing sessions. Copper would certainly pose a bit of a problem if you were to try to forge it as is I imagine. (I'm assuming the chromium might disassociate anyway but...). Definitely good thinking, and I'd never have thought of it but it looks like the reason chromic acid is used is because a chrome anode does not readily go into solution, so a lead anode (or cathode?) is used instead. I wont pretend to understand it, so I hope someone can set me straight on that one as well. I sure like your attitude to the question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 Ahhh EXTREMELY TOXIC waste if you try to unplate it yourself. Have you tried posting a notice that you will trade plated spanners for unplated ones? I preferentially collect unplated ones at fleamarkets and scrapyards for smithing; most folks want the *shiny* ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 Hmmmm, To trade, 0.8 miligrams of beautiful shiny, chrome plated nickel. FREE SPANNER included! Your old rusty spanner gladly accepted in exchange. A little polish and the advert could work, all we need now is a pitch man. I like the no hazmat feature of this idea more than the fun of writing memorably silly ads for posters around the neighborhood. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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