problems punching holes in flat bar

[yves]

A sharp punch will cut the slug out easily. Dull edges on a punch do not work as well. I just noticed that the edges of the holes of my bolster plate have become dull. I have to make a new one.

[pnut]

It went much better today. I think I was having a couple issues. First I was trying to punch out the slug from the back while it was  too hot and still too plastic so it was stretching. Secondly I let loose and gave it some hard hits. I think I was holding back a little too much. 

They're not perfect square holes but not too bad. I'm sure I'll improve quite a bit I learned what I think I need to know between the answers that were posted here and putting them into practice at the anvil. I reread this thread while the charcoal was getting ready before I tried again today. Thanks to all and I'll post a pic when I can get some WiFi. I'm nearly out of data for the month.

Pnut

Edited July 20, 2019 by pnut

[pnut]

I've had much better results after taking the advice gained here to the forge. I have another question for the brain trust and that is what size stock requires lube? I punched 1/4 and 1/8 stock with and without it and couldn't tell any significant difference. I was wondering if it should be used  every time you punch a hole no matter the thickness of the stock or at what point is it advisable or necessary? I haven't really been able to find an answer so was going on the assumption I should use it every time but decided to try it without it on thin stock and was surprised when it didn't seem to make a difference. The punch didn't try to stick and went through the material just as easily.  With thin stock is it really personal preference? At what thickness does it become necessary?

Pnut

 

[JHCC]

I generally only use punch lube when I'm making hammers. Like you, I haven't found it particularly useful for thinner stock (1/2" or less). That's just an observation, though, not a recommendation; others with greater experience may have a different perspective.

[Les L]

Pnut, I'm a beginner like you, so my response is based on my very limited experience, but when I took my hammer and tool class we were punching 1 3/8 and 2 1/4 round stock without lube. I think the shape of your punch may make a difference, we were using Brian Brazeal punches. I've been punching 1/8 - 1/2 since the class without lube, with no problems, but I plan on making some lube to use this weekend on project where I'll be punching several holes, I'll report back with my findings next week.

[Mr Moose]

I second JHCC. 

[anvil]

I dont use lube, even on 1" or better, at least not a bought lube. A pinch of coal fines from around your fire put in when your hole is deep enough works fine. As it burns in the hole, the punch compresses the gasses and this usually generates enough pressure to loosen your punch. You may need a little tap with your hammer, but thats it. 

[Frosty]

Coal in a punch hole work so well because there isn't enough oxy for complete combustion and few things make soot like smoldery coal. Soot is very slippery and makes a fine release agent. 

I have a plastic jar of graphite that got left here by I don't know who years ago, I figure my great grandkids'll have top shelf punch lube to give their kids. 

Frosty The Lucky.

[pnut]

I was under the impression it was the volatile gasses that acted as a lube when using green coal also. I didn't consider the incomplete combustion products. Hmm learned something new. I wonder if lamp black might be useful.

Pnut

[JHCC]

Volatility is a measure of how rapidly a substance evaporates from solid or liquid to gas; gasses by definition cannot be volatile.

[pnut]

Perhaps I should have said, " It is the volatiles becoming gaseous that creates the lubricating effect.", Touche good sir.

Pnut

Edited August 30, 2019 by pnut

[Les L]

I made some salt lube this weekend and punched holes in 3/8 and 1/4 plate. It did seem to help release the punch. The biggest difference was the mess I made on my anvil, where I dripped the lube before it dried on the punch, and the shop floor after I knocked my can of lube over, yeah, I'm a little clumsy at times.  NO more salt lube for me, next batch will be something solid so I can pick it back up after I knock it over and continue using it.

[pnut]

I've been wondering how graphite mixed into melted wax or coal mixed into melted wax would work. If it does it would be much less messy after the initial mixing and you could just paint it on like a crayon. I was wondering about charcoal too but I don't know if it would work since all the volatiles have been driven off already.

Pnut

[JHCC]

Lube isn't added before the hole is punched, but once it has been started. You either dribble a powered lube (coal dust, graphite, or powdered charcoal) into the hole or dip your punch into a liquid/semisolid/meltable lube in a separate container.

I use a graphite/beeswax mix for my punch lube, kept in a can next to my anvil. The initial punching heats it up enough to melt the wax, which carries the graphite to the surface of the punch. Hit, hit, repeat. (This can also help to cool the punch a bit, although not quite as much as using water.)

Powdered charcoal and graphite are both almost pure carbon, so you could use charcoal fines without any problem. In the low-oxygen environment of the hole, combustion turns the carbon into a mixture of carbon dioxide, carbon monoxide, and uncombusted carbon -- i.e., soot.

[pnut]

I was meaning to use it like a crayon on the punch. The Same way URI Hofi described in the bp section but with different ingredients . I have plenty of charcoal on hand.   Rub the lube on the punch and start punching. Reapply every time you remove the punch.

Pnut

[JHCC]

The advantage of keeping it in the can is that you don't have to do anything other than dip in the business end of the tool; no picking up the crayon, scrubbing it on the punch, putting it back down again, picking your hammer back up, etc. Just dip and done.

That's my experience, anyway. Try it, and let us know how it works for you.

[pnut]

I was thinking less stuff to spill but  You do have a point about just dipping the punch. A can does seem better. I'm at work and just skimmed the post, but I'm off now so it's to the forge I go.

Pnut

Edited September 3, 2019 by pnut

[JHCC]

I drop the can all the time, and nothing spills (the only problem is finding again). Once you take the punch out, whatever's left in the can resolidifies almost immediately.

[pnut]

I was doing too many things at once and only skimmed your post. I'm off work now though. Spilling the can was in regards to Les L. saying he made a mess with salt lube. 

Pnut

[Frosty]

Like multi taskers that actually do more than one job well? Years ago I made up a largish batch of Alex Bealer's: wax, soot, oil and turps finish. There was an acet bottle at work that had a damaged tank valve, the stem was bent, it didn't leak but it was red tagged so we couldn't use it. Rather than return it to the supplier nearly full I burned it off through a small brazing tip into a collector. (Upside down paint can.) I had to keep it turned down really low or the soot got out and I had to clean the can out daily.

Anyway, I made up his finish but used paraffin wax and Neats foot oil rather than bees wax and the oil he recommended. The stuff works beautifully, I have hooks on the barn and porches that've been outside for better than 20 years without sign of rust, even the contact point holding stuff. 

The other thing I discovered it does REALLY well is as a punch lube. As John says you just touch the hot punch to the waxy stuff after the first drive and it's coated. Punches, slitters, drifts, etc. are all slipperyized nicely.

Sorry for the long tale and I changed finish a long time ago but I still have almost a gallon of punch lube that makes a nice finish.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Mr Moose]

I tried the crayon approach and did not care for it.  Took to much time and poor results.  I have been using a store bought anti seize with great results.  Like John said... Dip and go. Nice and easy.  Don't take much either. 

[pnut]

I've been leaning towards using a tin or tub instead of making a crayon. It's so obvious I can't believe I didn't think of it from the beginning. I used to make little pucks of wax in paper cups when I was a kid for skateboarding. 

Pnut

[BillyBones]

Glad i am not the only one using anti-seize. I let it sit and drain some oil off it so it is a little dry. 

[JHCC]

My lube can fits in its own little bracket on the corner of my anvil stand:

[Les L]

JHCC, I will be making one of the holders, thanks for showing us. Sometimes a solution is right in front of your face, but it's so simple you can't see it.