bubba682 Posted May 6, 2020 Share Posted May 6, 2020 What do figure the final cost is from start to finish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted May 6, 2020 Author Share Posted May 6, 2020 Let me finish shopping for a new switch, and I’ll give you an updated total. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted May 6, 2020 Author Share Posted May 6, 2020 Well, I've ordered a new switch (the same as Peppie used on his press, visible in one of the photos in THIS COMMENT, although not in the same housing), which should be arriving in about a week. 4 hours ago, bubba682 said: What do figure the final cost is from start to finish. Depending on whether or not you count what I spent on the steel for some of the dies, the total net cost is roughly between $550 and $600. That does not include the 3 HP motor that I bought that turned out not to be quite as effective as I'd hoped, because I'll be able to use that to power my big cutoff saw. However, it does include the cost of materials to run a 240 volt circuit out to the garage to run the bigger motor. Altogether, more than half of the cost is for the motor and the wiring. Keep in mind that I got a pretty incredible deal on the bearing puller that formed the core of this whole thing: $47 + $6 for the assembly that I pulled the pump out of. If I'd built the whole thing from the ground up, it would have been a good bit more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted May 6, 2020 Share Posted May 6, 2020 On 5/5/2020 at 6:25 AM, ThomasPowers said: I could understand removing stuff to make it easier to film and keep the length down---but then he adds in a lot of stuff not in the book that often takes away from his story IMNSHO. On the other hand 2+ hours snugging with my wife on the couch without her smart phone in her hand! For as much as went into the movie I'm mystified about why he screwed with the story so much. Hash is a charitable term. It's a good movie to snuggle to, it's not like getting distracted would take away from it. At least it wasn't that utterly awful animated mess from not long ago to get out of my mind version. Some friends and I actually saw it in a theater. You know a movie is bad when, better living through altered blood chemistry, folks start leaving in the middle. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba682 Posted May 7, 2020 Share Posted May 7, 2020 6 hours ago, JHCC said: Keep in mind that I got a pretty incredible deal on the bearing puller that formed the core of this whole thing: $47 + $6 for the assembly that I pulled the pump out of. If I'd built the whole thing from the ground up, it would have been a good bit more. Well thats a good price so what are you goin to do get a 5hp since the 3hp doesn't work good enough i think mine was around 2400 for parts and material from scratch things are a little more expensive up here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted May 7, 2020 Author Share Posted May 7, 2020 Yes, I just got the 5hp and swopped it with the 3hp. I could theoretically run it now, but the only way to turn it on and off is with the plug at the wall, and that’s not safe. That’s why I’m waiting for the switch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlpservicesinc Posted May 7, 2020 Share Posted May 7, 2020 Your light duty forging press is moving into heavy duty area.. between the higher rpm and the higher horse power you are now going to be forging like a madman.. .:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted May 7, 2020 Author Share Posted May 7, 2020 My experiences with the earlier setups helped me realize a basic truth: if the press can't forge any faster or easier than I can by hand, why bother? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlpservicesinc Posted May 7, 2020 Share Posted May 7, 2020 That is a lesson well learned. While a powerhammer or forging press can increase over hand work it needs to be sized. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted May 7, 2020 Author Share Posted May 7, 2020 The Pressciousss certainly made things a lot easier drawing out that rail anchor that I made into a sitting wage, and while I suspect the time saving wasn’t great, it was certainly easier on my arm. I’m planning to do another once the new setup is running, by way of comparison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlpservicesinc Posted May 7, 2020 Share Posted May 7, 2020 Were you stalling the 3hp before? Same rpm? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted May 7, 2020 Author Share Posted May 7, 2020 Just as a refresher, this is where things stood last September: On 9/13/2019 at 9:29 AM, JHCC said: In the following lists: "Original setup" means 1.5 hp/1725 rpm motor and 0.75 gpm pump "Second setup" means 3.0 hp/3450 rpm motor and 0.75 gpm pump "Current setup" means 3.0 hp/3450 rpm motor with 3.14 gpm pump The new current setup is 5.0 hp/3450 rpm motor with 3.14 gpm pump. Calculated tonnage and speed for those various setups are: Original setup: 21.5 tons at 0.23 inches/second. Second setup: 21.5 tons at 0.46 inches/second. Third setup (the old "current setup): 10.3 tons at 0.96 inches/second. Current setup: 17.2 tons at 0.96 inches/second. And forging at those setups is: Original setup: Much too slow; not effective for forging. Second setup: Better, but still too slow; still not effective for forging. Third setup (the old "current setup): Usable, but a significant drop in tonnage. Moderately effective for forging medium-size stock (max 1/2" x 1"), but not powerful enough for effective forging of anything larger. Current setup: We shall see. My hope is that the increased tonnage will put this in the same ballpark as the 16-ton unit from Coal Iron and make it more productive for forging heavier sections. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted May 7, 2020 Author Share Posted May 7, 2020 8 hours ago, jlpservicesinc said: you are now going to be forging like a madman.. .:) "Finally, the flesh reveals the madness within." -- Remus Lupin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlpservicesinc Posted May 7, 2020 Share Posted May 7, 2020 Oh, I thought you were sticking with the same pump size.. Sorry you have to keep writing the info.. I missed it.. I'm sure you all ready covered this, but why not a dual stage pump? The Coal Iron unit was pretty nice.. that will be handy for sure.. I've started collecting bits for a 100ton press. I don't move to fast though.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted May 7, 2020 Author Share Posted May 7, 2020 No, the change from the second setup to the third was to replace the original pump with one with higher volume. The change from the third setup to the current is to replace the 3 hp motor with 5 hp, but keeping the higher-volume pump. If I were to put the original pump back in and hook up the new 5 hp motor, it would theoretically produce about 71 tons, moving at 0.23 inches per second -- if it didn't blow up first, that is. I don't know what the rating is for the cylinder, but I am NOT going to risk it! I may be mad, but I'm not stupid! As for the two-stage pump, I might put one in at some point, but I don't currently have it in the budget. The original (0.75 gpm) pump and the current (3.14 gpm) pump were both incredibly cheap: the original was part of the press as purchased ($47), and the current was about $6 and came with a whole bunch of very useful pipes and fittings. Also, as far as I can tell, the main advantage of the two-stage pump is that you get the dies in contact with the workpiece faster, without any change to the actual working speed and pressure. Since it's not too hard to position the dies close to the working distance beforehand, I don't know that I want to spend an extra $150 on something that isn't going to do any more actual forging work anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlpservicesinc Posted May 7, 2020 Share Posted May 7, 2020 I'm not trying to convince you.. Just talking.. I think you have done great.. Especially with budget considerations. The 2 stage pumps I looked at had a setting for the ability to change at what pressure the pump went from 1st to 2nd stage.. Kinda like a 2 speed transmission.. So, you get up to 3000 psi on the 1st stage and it switches to the 2nd stage pump.. the speed of engagement and initial press is faster with the larger pump and once the pressure spikes it switches to the 2nd stage will gives you that extra punch. Only reason I'm even mentioning it is the speed factor.. Its a complicated process and you have done a great job at the math and such. Fluid temps, cavitation, losses, etc, etc.. I'll sit back and lurk some more.. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted May 7, 2020 Author Share Posted May 7, 2020 If the new setup works sufficiently, I'll probably leave it as-is and move on to another machinery project (such as getting my big abrasive cutoff saw running). Always happy to bat ideas around, though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted May 8, 2020 Author Share Posted May 8, 2020 Oh, here's a fun thing: the industrial surplus place just put up another hydraulic pump. A little research tells me that it has a displacement of 1.4 cubic inches, which would be 20.9 gpm at 3450 rpm. With the 5 hp motor, that's only 2.6 tons, but at a blazing 6.4 inches/second of ram speed. How do we feel about a hydraulic power hammer? (Not a serious suggestion.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlpservicesinc Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 That is funny. I looked into hydraulic power hammers as they do exist. Super pricey with huge accumulators to run them. I also looked into really fast inches per second ram speeds. I was amazed that once you got to a certain point the fluid would overheat from friction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 I'm convinced that what started out as a garage build of a small Hydraulic system is going to end up as the "Death Star" press where John browns out the Midwest every time he turns it on and it messes up the seismic readings from coast to coast when it hits... Probably start working on his "Mount Doom" gas forge soon... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted May 8, 2020 Author Share Posted May 8, 2020 Well, there is the possibility of getting a gear reducer to run that pump off the current motor. A 5:1 reducer would take the 5 hp motor up to 25 and its 3450 rpm down to 690 rpm. With the 1.4 cubic inch displacement, that's 4.18 gpm for a nice 1.28 inches/second of ram speed. However, I don't think either the pump or the cylinder could handle the resulting 10,250 psi of pressure and 64.4 tons of hydraulic force, although I'm quite confident that Fowllife's welds on the frame would be just fine. As for brownouts and seismic readings, I'm avoiding anything that would sour my relationship with my neighbors. You do want to keep on their good side in a residential neighborhood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted May 10, 2020 Author Share Posted May 10, 2020 Okay, significant update. The new switch arrived earlier than expected, so after purchasing a couple of other bits and pieces, I got everything wired up, fired up the forge, and gave it a whirl. Here are the results. First, I had a go at squaring up a piece of 1-1/2" round. A bit slower than I hoped, but still faster than the previous setup. Then I took a project I'd set aside a while back, where I was drawing out a pair of tongs from a single piece of flat bar. The new setup showed itself to good advantage here, with a good bit more squish than before. I put in about 30-45 minutes of good use, and felt I was starting to get the hang of it. Then things got weird. All of a sudden, the motor started making a very strange noise, and I saw a wisp of smoke coming out of it. I shut everything down immediately, popped off the cover plate where the wires are connected, and took a look. Everything appears to be okay there: no scorch marks or streaking. I tried it again to be on the safe side, and still got the same noise. After quickly shooting a video of turning the motor on and off, I packed everything up and shut down for the night. No point in messing around with things I don't understand and possibly making things worse. So here's the video: Any thoughts what might be the problem? Or should I just contact the seller to exchange the motor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Griffin Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 Is that motor fan cooled? Sounds like the fan hitting the shroud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted May 10, 2020 Author Share Posted May 10, 2020 No, it’s not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba682 Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 Hard to say from the vid it sounds like the shaft is hitting something it can't be the pump if it didn't do it before with the old motor so i would send it back but i'd try the old motor first to make sure its not the pump side of the connection.Nothing worse then sending something back and it wasn't the problem..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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