JHCC Posted June 30, 2020 Author Share Posted June 30, 2020 On 6/17/2020 at 10:41 AM, JHCC said: There's a slightly less expensive version from the same manufacturer with 10.94 gpm in the first stage, which would give me the same 4.08 tons, but at 2.85 inches/second; the second stage numbers remain the same (2.9 gpm, 18.57 tons, 0.85 inches/second). I've ordered this version from Northern Tool and plan to pick up the motor in the next couple of days. Then, we squish! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 Getting ready for the black walnut harvest? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted July 2, 2020 Author Share Posted July 2, 2020 Now you've got me thinking about a nutcracking jig.... Motor is back from the service place and the pump has shipped from Northern Tool. Might be able to start squishing by Monday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlpservicesinc Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 What's your first project? What was the quote for the motor work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted July 3, 2020 Author Share Posted July 3, 2020 The total with tax was $214.14. They had to special order the capacitor, which was of an unusual size. Not yet sure what my first project will be. I have some chunks of 2-1/2" round 4140 that I'd like to square up for hammer blanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted July 6, 2020 Author Share Posted July 6, 2020 The new pump arrived today, and I have installed it in The Pressciousss. I am VERY unhappy, as it does not appear to be working properly at all. By my calculations, it should be traveling at about 2.85”/sec unloaded, but I’m only getting 0.56”/sec. Also, when it reaches the upper and lower limits, the pump bypasses completely, and there appears to be no squeeze at all. Here’s a video: Northern Tool is sending a replacement, and I really, really hope this was just a bad pump. Is there any way that the internal pressure of the system would be exceeding the 650 psi threshold to go from stage 1 to stage 2? Any thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted July 7, 2020 Author Share Posted July 7, 2020 Addendum: in the "Hydraulic Forging Press" group on Facebook, Nathaniel Brandt of Coal Iron suggests that the pump might be stuck in the second stage because of a tight ram or something binding somewhere. Since it's been pretty humid lately and The Pressciousss hasn't been getting much use, I wonder if some corrosion on the surfaces of the guides might be part of the problem. I think the next step would be to extend the ram all the way and unscrew it from the bottom carriage. If it moves faster when running on its own, then the slide is the problem, and I should be able to fix that with some polishing and appropriate lubrication. Fingers crossed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlpservicesinc Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 If there was no binding before all this.. Then binding should not be an issue.. With this said.. Have you checked all clearances to make sure nothing has bent or a weld or 2 pop? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted July 7, 2020 Author Share Posted July 7, 2020 Haven't checked yet; that's on the docket for after work. Seeing how the ram runs when there's no load at all should be interesting and informative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 If it were stuck in the second stage it'd have max squish when the dies meet and you can tell by the motor sound it does't. Were I to guess I'd say a bypass valve has some crud blocking it partway open. This would allow enough pressure to move the piston but no significant pressure on the dies. If a bypass were stuck open the piston wouldn't move except maybe settle / drift down. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted July 7, 2020 Author Share Posted July 7, 2020 Good to know. I will check the guides and movement with no load anyway (hey, why not?), but hopefully switching out the pump will fix the problem, if its cause is indeed as Frosty describes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 Could be in the control valve body, that's what I'd check first. Can you do a reverse flow by swapping hoses? It could be s simple as a shaving that didn't get flushed out during manufacture, it happens occasionally. and there's no telling where it will hang except the worst place available. Thank Mr. Murphy. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted July 7, 2020 Author Share Posted July 7, 2020 The speed is the same on both open and close, so I don't know if that would be the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 No, I'm talking about back flushing the valves by reversing the direction of the oil through the valve body. Up and down are different flow circuits. If you do, run the outflow into a coffee filter so you don't just recycle possible crud through the system. The coffee filter will capture any debris and indicate if that was a possible cause. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted July 7, 2020 Author Share Posted July 7, 2020 I’m not sure I can do that, since the inlet to the valve (from the pump) is a solid tube rather than a flexible hose. Sounds like it might be a good idea to filter all the fluid (when I drain the system to switch out the pump), just to be on the safe side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted July 8, 2020 Author Share Posted July 8, 2020 3 hours ago, Frosty said: I'm talking about back flushing the valves by reversing the direction of the oil through the valve body. Okay, figured out a way to make it happen. Also ran some more fluid through the system while it was set up in reverse. Filtered the used fluid through some paper towels: Which produced a fair amount of crud: I’ve removed the pump and will install the replacement when that arrives. Fingers crossed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 Don't you have a filter? Did you flush the USED tank before using it? If you have it drained put a quart of gasoline in the tank and slosh it till your arms are sore, drain it, do it again though you only have to slosh it enough to rinse the oily gas out. Dry it completely before hooking it back up and filling with NEW hydraulic fluid. Then disconnect the return line from the tank and flush NEW fluid through the hoses and valve till it's all clean new fluid. Reconnect the return hose, top the tank off and it should be good to go. Did I forget to tell you to flush the heck out of that system when you got it? If not it's MY BAD, you NEVER use an old system without flushing the BE Jeebers out of it. If it does't have a filter put one in, pistons produce a surprising amount of . . .stuff. It does't need to be a super duper one but it needs to be better than the screen over the pickup. I'm really sorry John, working on, adapting, repairing and rebuilding hydraulic systems was my eat and drink on the drill crew. Flushing the crud from the old system should've been the #1 thing I suggested. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlpservicesinc Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 Hydraulics don't like anything in the system/lines.. I thought that they were fairly robust and they are in use.. Just not when it comes to dirt, dust, and debris in the system.. They need to be nearly spotless both in fluid and storage. I learned this the hardway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted July 8, 2020 Author Share Posted July 8, 2020 11 hours ago, Frosty said: It does't need to be a super duper one but it needs to be better than the screen over the pickup. Okay, I've been doing a little quick online research for filters, and there's something I don't understand. I get the gpm ratings (and why it's better to have a lot more capacity than you really need) and I understand the size of particle the filter will capture, but it seems like most of the filters out there (at least at first glance) have much lower operating pressures (~150-200 psi) than The Pressciousss cranks out. Do I need to look further to find something with a 3000 psi rating, or does the return side of the system really have that much lower pressure? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlpservicesinc Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 Filter is in the return line and /or pickup line. Most are return line and have a pressure guage so can see when back pressure becomes excessive showing a plugged filter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazer Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 Sorry I'm not familiar enough with the overall build of The Pressciousss, hydraulics I can say a thing or two about. There is generally a primary pressure filter that filters the lubricant through the delivery section prior to entering the hydraulic device, in this case the press, which would need to be rated for your operating pressures. Manufacturers, especially of hydraulic equipment, add their own safety factor in their stated pressure and gpm ratings, but adding your own is not a bad idea. There is also a filter on the low pressure return side to clean the lubricant before it's returned the reservoir. Like Jennifer said, your return side should be metered to know what pressure your system is operating at. There are many ways to to squish a cat and different systems use different filtration methods. I know you have documented your build here in the forum so maybe I can educate myself a bit more and let you know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted July 8, 2020 Author Share Posted July 8, 2020 Yeah, it's quite a saga. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fowllife Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 The other issue you may run into is lack of reservoir capacity for your now larger pump flow. If I'm not mistaken you have a small 1 Qt ? reservoir tank on your setup, with a 13 gpm pump you may end up starving the pump and creating too much pressure on the return side. I think I mentioned in one of my PM's awhile back that the old rule of thumb is 1 gallon of reservoir capacity for each GPM of pump flow (my tractors all seem to be about 1.5x flow rate, 18 gpm @ 25 gal & 22 gpm @ 35 gal tank). My pump and motor are the same as yours are right now, but I have a 3 gallon tank with a filter between the tank and the pump return port. As said above, filter between the reservoir tank and the pump return. The pump you have only has a 1/2" return with makes me wonder if it setup with a low pressure return? Most pump that size will have a 1" return port (low pressure barb/hose clamp fitting.) I would think you will end up building some pressure with that small of a return line, maybe this wont be a problem though. I would lean more towards a bad pump, hopefully. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted July 8, 2020 Author Share Posted July 8, 2020 So, would that be the flow rate at the first stage or the second? That is, an 11-gallon tank, or a 3? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fowllife Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 I went with matching the high pressure side and put on a 3 gallon tank. It's fast, but I haven't had the time to finish the rest and see how it will perform. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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