American Piddler Posted November 11, 2017 Share Posted November 11, 2017 Here's a link to my forge burner build! Pretty easy for most who have common tools like a welder and a drill! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted November 11, 2017 Share Posted November 11, 2017 The photo shows a heavily reducing flame. Apparently, this person doesn't even know enough to see what a bad flame is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
American Piddler Posted November 11, 2017 Author Share Posted November 11, 2017 This is a first light photo no adjustment at all! Thanks for the feedback! Feel free to watch the video and you'll understand more! Thanks again for feedback! Pretty sure this is getting the job done! Thats hot enough! This is a great first build for someone just getting into the craft! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timgunn1962 Posted November 11, 2017 Share Posted November 11, 2017 Given that the .023" Mig tip is the smallest available, the burn does look pretty rich (reducing). What it looks like out of a forge is fairly meaningless: there are plenty of rich-running burners doing precisely what they need to do (I don't recall this being specified in the video). With the caveat that digital cameras can really mess with color, that looks like a perfectly adequate forging temperature to me. The video on the other thread looks like a good forging temperature, but probably not a good welding temperature {though I could be wrong). If the forge does what it is intended to do, no changes are needed. There is a lot of Dragons Breath in the video, so if needed there should be scope for increasing the flame temperature with more air relative to the gas. A smaller gas jet would increase air, relative to gas, but is effectively ruled out by smaller mig tips being unavailable. The burner looks very much like a Frosty Tee with some, probably unhelpful, changes. It's not clear why the changes have been made: The build seems to require all the same tools as the Frosty Tee, but with the addition of a welder. It does not seem to offer improved performance in its current form. My guess would be that the hex end cap offers some obstruction to airflow, and that the depth of the hex end cap also causes the gas jet to be further into the throat than is optimum for air induction. If the burner will not achieve the required temperature as it is, there is some scope for trimming back the mig tip to try to increase induction. If this does not get it there, it seems likely that the hex cap will need to be re-welded with a reduced insertion depth to reduce the obstruction to airflow. Between about 12.35 and 12.50, the video tells us not to use Galvanized pipe because welding it is bad for ones health. This is a couple of seconds after welding on a PTFE tape-sealed joint. Scary. I'd suggest the video poster (Ezra?) do a little research into the thermal decomposition products of PTFE and their health effects, then post an appropriate warning with the Youtube video. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
American Piddler Posted November 11, 2017 Author Share Posted November 11, 2017 Thanks for all the information! And yes a warning about PTFE Tape needs to be added! I thank you for the feedback and knowledge you shared and also that you took the time to write the amount you did! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted November 12, 2017 Share Posted November 12, 2017 Ezra: Please don't encourage people to do things YOU don't have a clue about. I don't mind people copying what I put up for an easy effective burner build, that's why I developed the thing and posted illustrated instructions after all. At least follow them will you please? You've made a bunch of pointless changes that make a LOT more work for a less effective and more dangerous device. Let's talk about basic shop safety shall we? Please don't encourage people to drill holes without clamping the work, drilling a 3/4" hole while holding the work in your HAND is a good way to be a blood piddler. Tim covered welding on teflon tape, you MIGHT want to read up on breathing phosgene in any quantity. It's one of the few things that toxicity is more a matter of kind than dosage. At least you're pleased with the aesthetics, there has to be something positive about this video how NOT TO. Frosty The Lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
American Piddler Posted November 12, 2017 Author Share Posted November 12, 2017 Frosty, I have never even looked at your design.... I do appreciate your concern for safety and inregards to efficiency you haven't stopped by to prove or disprove that but I invite you to build both and do a comparison! Thanks again for your feedback! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blacksmith-450 Posted November 12, 2017 Share Posted November 12, 2017 I do not know why but I still be uncomfortable seeing someone take another person's idea and make it their own. Especially when it complicates the initial concept. But it's only me ... BTW Frosty, did you use «USA parts» when you have develop your T-Burner ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted November 12, 2017 Share Posted November 12, 2017 35 minutes ago, blacksmith-450 said: BTW Frosty, did you use «USA parts» when you have develop your T-Burner ? When I was developing it American made was what was available. Now, who knows? I don't really care for affectations, results are all that really matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blacksmith-450 Posted November 12, 2017 Share Posted November 12, 2017 8 hours ago, Ezra Lane said: This is a first light photo no adjustment at all! Thanks for the feedback! Feel free to watch the video and you'll understand more! To say that to Mike is as if Pythagore said to Einstein: "one day you will understand".!!! LOL ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
American Piddler Posted November 12, 2017 Author Share Posted November 12, 2017 I'm starting to understand already...I by no means claimed this as my own or original and didn't try to steal anything or say it was better than someone else's... real warm welcome here lol no worries I enjoyed the build and it does what it was built to do if no one here can see that then that's on them.... 4 hours ago, blacksmith-450 said: I do not know why but I still be uncomfortable seeing someone take another person's idea and make it their own. Especially when it complicates the initial concept. But it's only me ... BTW Frosty, did you use «USA parts» when you have develop your T-Burner ? Btw.... I've never claimed this as my own or that it's better.... I also don't find this complicating anything especially since I don't know what Frosty did but will definitely check it out and may use it instead! 3 hours ago, Frosty said: When I was developing it American made was what was available. Now, who knows? I don't really care for affectations, results are all that really matter. This is true results are all that matter and I'm guessing from what I'm hearing about your design it gets a better result.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genesaika Posted November 12, 2017 Share Posted November 12, 2017 I'm sure nobody is trying to be rude or anything, but Mike literally wrote the book, one of them anyways, on this. Frosty is also a well regarded designer of burners. Neither of their advice should be disregarded. I didn't watch the video with sound so forgive me if you mentioned it, but with the jet being welded in place how can you make fine adjustments to it's angle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
American Piddler Posted November 12, 2017 Author Share Posted November 12, 2017 I most definitely wouldn't take their advice lightly.... I also don't have a way to angle the jet. I can change the tips out and also adjust the air flow and LP flow & pressure.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotoMike Posted November 12, 2017 Share Posted November 12, 2017 Ezra I appreciate your passion. I too am a newbie and in the process of a build, seen here in a different thread. good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
American Piddler Posted November 12, 2017 Author Share Posted November 12, 2017 Mike, I appreciate the kind word's and support! I'll have to check it out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eseemann Posted November 12, 2017 Share Posted November 12, 2017 One more thing, PLEASE for the love of Dog don't make videos welding w/o gloves. I know that some people will do what you are doing here and just make a few welds but there are many people that will look at that and think welding bare handed is OK. I have seen ads for welding equipment showing what can only be described as "beef cake" models welding in a tight fitting black tee-shirt to try and convey the same type of message as the Marlboro Man. "Look at this guy, he is a Man's Man!" People will see your video and identify with you and want to emulate you. I liked the video and you seem like an approachable type people can identify with. That means you have a responsibility to act in the safest manner you can. Overall good video but listen to the people here they have seen many many things. Ernest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
American Piddler Posted November 13, 2017 Author Share Posted November 13, 2017 17 hours ago, eseemann said: One more thing, PLEASE for the love of Dog don't make videos welding w/o gloves. I know that some people will do what you are doing here and just make a few welds but there are many people that will look at that and think welding bare handed is OK. I have seen ads for welding equipment showing what can only be described as "beef cake" models welding in a tight fitting black tee-shirt to try and convey the same type of message as the Marlboro Man. "Look at this guy, he is a Man's Man!" People will see your video and identify with you and want to emulate you. I liked the video and you seem like an approachable type people can identify with. That means you have a responsibility to act in the safest manner you can. Overall good video but listen to the people here they have seen many many things. Ernest Ernest, Very well said! Your concerns about welding gloves makes since yes it was a small weld for a brief moment bit could imply that welding bare handed is okay when it most definitely isn't.... I appreciate your approach & respect your opinion thank you kindly for the feedback & also the kind word's of encouragement at the end with that I will get back to Piddling a little safer this time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 Ezra, if you’re responding to the very last comment, there’s no need to quote the entire thing. If you’re responding to an earlier comment or a small piece of a long one, highlight what you’re addressing and click the “Quote this” button that will pop up. Over-long quotes eat up bandwidth and slow down pages loading for our members who use dial-up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eseemann Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 Good to know, I have a nephew that has a buddy and they watch the King of Random on YouTube and want to build all sort of things like a DIY Plasma cutter and carbon arc welder from stuff around the house. This is the guy that plugs a single wire in to two different 110v outlets to get 220v. These outlets are in his house, where he lives and when I say wire I mean take the type of 3 conductor wire from Home Despot and strip one conductor. And just in case this has not been said, you might want to post your location. People can't turn you on to the good scrap yard action if you don't know what state you live in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcornell Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 In addition to the other comments - the mig tip is not tapped straight - which means it's not pointed down the center line of the burner tube. Using the drill press as tap center trick mentioned in Frosty's blueprints got me past that problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 I think some of this comes down to: Experience! Should one post how to's when they have a fairly low level of it? Myself when I needed surgery this year, I selected a Dr that had literally done thousands of the procedure over 30 years with good rated outcomes. If I was building a propane burner I would try to find the designs worked up by people with decades of experience making and using them. I expect they would be easier and simpler to build and work very well indeed. Now I know the internet is the home of "My opinion is just as good as anyone else's" . But I do not consider that a plus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
American Piddler Posted November 15, 2017 Author Share Posted November 15, 2017 Well I do appreciate all the feedback and look forward to further gaining knowledge! I will say this the burner I built does exactly what it was built to do! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 On 11/11/2017 at 2:40 PM, timgunn1962 said: What it looks like out of a forge is fairly meaningless: there are plenty of rich-running burners doing precisely what they need to do (I don't recall this being specified in the video). Rich flame in equals dragon's breath out. On the other hand, lots of such burners heat forges up just fine, as you stated. This is one of those factors, that isn't necessarily a problem. But something that needs to be understood; not just excepted on the one hand, nor argued about on the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
American Piddler Posted November 15, 2017 Author Share Posted November 15, 2017 Well said Mikey! Again the initial flame shown was literally first light no adjusting flow or pressure to lean it out or richen it up and yes an understanding of rich and lean needs to be there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
American Piddler Posted November 22, 2017 Author Share Posted November 22, 2017 On 11/13/2017 at 12:20 PM, ThomasPowers said: I think some of this comes down to: Experience! Should one post how to's when they have a fairly low level of it? Myself when I needed surgery this year, I selected a Dr that had literally done thousands of the procedure over 30 years with good rated outcomes. If I was building a propane burner I would try to find the designs worked up by people with decades of experience making and using them. Some of chose to believe it takes an expert and others will see the simplicity of it all.... the how to above will do exactly as intended.... somewhere there's always something better so I'll wait for your how to video.... now again until my post here well after the fact I had made a burner I did not know anything about the frost tee.... do I agree that it is a better design with more flexibility for tuning yup.... do I still know that what I built will Get r Hot enough to pound r Hard yup so either way it's a learning experience and if we can't learn then we have some serious troubles ahead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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