Robin447 Posted October 5, 2017 Posted October 5, 2017 I'm attempting to create a design for new forging tongs for my Product Design (DT) GCSE, it consists of normal versatile wolf jaw-like tongs with a clamping mechanism that locks over the top so as to lock pieces into place, and I am also attempting to incorporate a hardy-hole attachment so as to allow it to be hands-free, but I am currently having problems comming up with a way to keep it flush to the anvil. I would really appreciate it if you would evaluate this initial design and tell me any problems with it and thinks like how likely you are to use it and, if so how much you would be willing to pay for it hypothetically, thank you . Quote
Latticino Posted October 5, 2017 Posted October 5, 2017 The reason that a typical tong clamp/ring is at the end of the handle, in my estimation, is functionality. If at the front (where you have put it) it will get hot while heating the stock, be difficult to operate, potentially distort the threading mechanism (which is complicated, offset which will torque the rivet joint, and prone to failure), and adds weight to the tong where you don't want it. The hardy insert is problematic as it will only work with a limited type of stock configuration. It is an interesting idea, but have you done much forging yourself? I think more practical experience would help influence your design in a more positive direction. I could see a detachable hardy based 3 axis clamp being quite helpful, if you can figure a way to make it quickly and easily operable and integrate it into your tong design. The concept certainly has potential, but I think you need more development and testing before evaluation. As regards price of the current design, I would not be interested, so expect any price would be too high. Sounds like a classroom assignment, not an actual product though, so I would estimate that if it could be produced as a well functioning tool a price in the $100 range wouldn't be too far out of line. Quote
JHCC Posted October 5, 2017 Posted October 5, 2017 What Latticino said is all true. I would add that the open joint (presumably to allow longer stock to pass through the center) is interesting, but potentially problematic. Two riveted joints is twice as many mechanisms to get jammed. Most current designs for holding longer stock have some kind of offset, so that you can just grab where you need to grab, without having to thread the tongs over the length of the rod. I like Latticino's idea of the detachable 3-axis clamp to mount in the hardy. For that, I'd suggest some kind of quick-release that clamps onto a specific spot on the reins (one without any protruding lugs or sharp corners to mess with your tong hand when not in use) for fast and positive locking. One advantage of that would be the ability to put the tongs in exactly the same spot on the anvil for multiple heats, without having to reposition every time. Quote
Al Stephens Posted October 5, 2017 Posted October 5, 2017 My first thought is that by the time you have the work positioned in the tongs and everything locked in place, you won't have enough heat left to get much work done. I would think a simple chain hold down would be much faster and versatile. Al Quote
ThomasPowers Posted October 5, 2017 Posted October 5, 2017 There's been about 2000 years of research done in this area; hard to come up with something new that's better if that's a requirement. I also felt that your background in smithing needs more depth. Quote
Judson Yaggy Posted October 5, 2017 Posted October 5, 2017 Rings and clips on the bitter end of reins also create maximum clamping force, and allow the spring in the reins to absorb hammering impact without working loose. They also don't get in the way of rotating the tongs and work on the face of the anvil. Offset tongs allow the same function as your pass thru design while having a more simple and robust design. Only one rivet in the boss. You might be on to something with the hardy hole tong holder thou! Good idea. Quote
Latticino Posted October 6, 2017 Posted October 6, 2017 @Robin447: Perhaps I'm feeling particularly needy today, but it would be nice if after folks take the time to review, analyze and respond to your inquiries that you at least acknowledge their feedback. Are you suggesting that 26 hours is too long to wait a reply ? Quote
John in Oly, WA Posted October 6, 2017 Posted October 6, 2017 No Latticino, you're not feeling needy, just expecting a bit of (un?)common courtesy. Quote
jeremy k Posted October 6, 2017 Posted October 6, 2017 Be patient, its only been a day since the original poster posted this, some don't have access to the net 24/7 to respond. Quote
ThomasPowers Posted October 6, 2017 Posted October 6, 2017 Another point: anything that adds weight to the working end of the tong is not often as helpful as it is a detriment. I like my tongs light---unless I'm using a powerhammer (In the example of my avatar picture a piece of 1" square stock was welded to the workpiece as a handle to avoid tong use!) Quote
John in Oly, WA Posted October 6, 2017 Posted October 6, 2017 Be patient, its only been a day since the original poster posted this, some don't have access to the net 24/7 to respond. Oh all right, we'll wait. (tapping foot impatiently) LOL Quote
Will W. Posted October 6, 2017 Posted October 6, 2017 Oh all right, we'll wait. (tapping foot impatiently) LOL And so it begins... The game is afoot! Quote
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted October 6, 2017 Posted October 6, 2017 When it comes to tongs I think that KISS applies. Tongs need to be easily modified to accept the given stock. Quote
Steve Sells Posted October 6, 2017 Posted October 6, 2017 Dont be rude guys he has not logged in since posting yesterday. not every member has the "gotta log in now" bug that we have we explained the bad design, now lets give him a chance to read it Quote
Frosty Posted October 7, 2017 Posted October 7, 2017 Welcome aboard Robin, glad to have you. If you put your general location in the header you might be surprised how many of the gang live within visiting distance. That'd give you the chance to bounce your ideas off guys and maybe make up a prototype or two. As designed I don't see a practical pair of tongs, the above reasoning is as sound as it gets. Keep thinking about it though you just never know when a gold nugget will fall out of the sky. However your concept got me to thinking. I really like my tong clips so I don't have to squeeze the reins and being able to let the hardy hole hold them would be SWEET. So, now about this Put a tong clip on a shank. This lets you use the tongs as is but when you need to hold the work on the anvil just slip the reins in the clip and drop it in the hardy hole. You can have clips oriented both vertically and horizontally on the same shank. Hmmmm? Is THAT a cool idea or what and it's inspired by Robin's question. Yeah guys be nice. Robin posted at 3am AK time, it hasn't even been a day yet. Frosty The Lucky. Quote
Mark Ling Posted October 8, 2017 Posted October 8, 2017 I would be hesitant to get back on after what's been said towards him. Your fine Robin. Littleblacksmith Quote
Latticino Posted October 8, 2017 Posted October 8, 2017 I would be hesitant to get back on after what's been said towards him. Your fine Robin. Littleblacksmith Why is that? OP asked for an evaluation of a concept and got honest feedback. If you can't tolerate constructive criticism then don't ask for it. Quote
Frosty Posted October 8, 2017 Posted October 8, 2017 Mark: What did we say "towards" him? If we got it wrong lets hear it. I'm wrong often enough I appreciate it when someone points out my mistakes. What did we get wrong? Please. Frosty The Lucky. Quote
Glenn Posted October 8, 2017 Posted October 8, 2017 There have been many times a member will make one post and not check back to the site for an extended period of time. His question was answered so let him return to the site and post as he chooses. Quote
Mark Ling Posted October 8, 2017 Posted October 8, 2017 Y'all did do a great job of giving him some very well thought out feedback with experiance behind it. Both Frosty And Mr. Sells apparently thought something of y'alls comments when Mr. Sells said not to be rude and when Frosty said to be nice to him. JHCC said he hated one post wonders (less than a day later), I thought that was a bit of an exaggerated statement, I'm sure you don't actually hate him for having another life that doesn't allow him to be on IFI 24/7. But if I was him I would be a little confused, for all ready being hated for doing what? But I'm sure you didn't mean it, but maybe you did, its hard to tell thought the screen, that's what's so difficult with having conversations over the internet is it's easy to miss interpret words. He was said pretty much to not have much courtesy, pretty much the same as being called rude. Again, for not being able to be on IFI every second, who knows, maybe he is busy with, oh, a job, kids, or a who knows? I just thought some of y'all were being awful fast pace. Hold your horses, and give the guy some time to breathe. I'm not trying to get into some online argument, they are completely pointless and stupid, and get no where except get some one banned. Maybe I'm just making something out of nothing, but come on, how about WE show some (un)common courtesy. Maybe this will be his only post, but who's encouraging him to make another post? When do you consider someone a "one poster"? Six hours after the post? A day? A week? A year? If they do end up commenting a year later, would you take back your comments about him, or is still on your "bad" list. It's not even like he has logged in an looked, and is just not deciding to post, no, he hasn't even been on. What's the point in him going through the time to construct a decent post with drawings, ask questions, but not listen to the answers. It wasn't like he got on and asked a one line question " are harbor freight anvils good?" And isn't planning on returning, but just wanted to cause a big fuss. I'm going to be crazy and give him the benefit of the doubt, that he's planning on getting back on. Call me Frosty, cause I just typed a long post! Littleblacksmith Quote
JHCC Posted October 8, 2017 Posted October 8, 2017 2 hours ago, littleblacksmith said: JHCC said he hated one post wonders (less than a day later), I thought that was a bit of an exaggerated statement, I'm sure you don't actually hate him for having another life that doesn't allow him to be on IFI 24/7. But if I was him I would be a little confused, for all ready being hated for doing what? But I'm sure you didn't mean it, but maybe you did, its hard to tell thought the screen, that's what's so difficult with having conversations over the internet is it's easy to miss interpret words. Fair point. @Robin447, if you're reading this, that was a general observation about people who make one post and leave, and was not necessarily about you. Quote
Frosty Posted October 8, 2017 Posted October 8, 2017 Well said Mark, good point. By all means you can be a Frosty, it's a large talky clan, welcome aboard. I deleted my initial comment when Steve's post showed up and I reread the thread. John's "one post wonder" statement made me look at the time chop. If there's a lesson to take from this it's, Check the FACTS. Frosty The Lucky. Quote
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