Luke Pickering Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 Afternoon. I picked up a complete set of L200 leaf springs for a mere £10 today. Should be enough to keep me going while I learn to make kitchen knives. My question is, would you bother to normalise the steel before forging or just get on and bash it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasent Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 I'm a newbie but I believe Normalize before heat treat. Look in to metallurgy. Normalizing helps the grain structure form properly and relieves stresses it the metal. Hopefully some one more experienced than me will chin in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 First of all Normalizing is a heat treat process so that statement comes out as "I believe Heat Treat before Heat Treat". If you mean hardening you need to say hardening as Heat Treat could be annealing... Second, once you bring up most steels to forging temps; previous heat treat goes bye bye. Leaf springs do not need normalizing before forging. Some steels that are very stressed in their current form, it's suggested you preheat or heat slowly to avoid stressing it more before it "relaxes" as austenite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 Welcome aboard Luke, glad to have you. If you'll put your general location in the header you might be surprised how many of the Iforge gang live within visiting distance. The short answer is No. Forging is done hotter than the temperature that would draw the temper completely out of the steel. It'd be like heating the soup before cooking it. Forge it HOT, when it starts fighting the hammer put it back in the fire. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Pickering Posted June 5, 2017 Author Share Posted June 5, 2017 Great stuff - thank you. I am in south west England by the way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 Hi Luke, we have a members day at Westpoint forge this Saturday if you would like to come along for a chat and meet some like minded people. Its a mile and a bit away from the M5 Exeter services, enter by main gate, and turn right then pass the Devon Drivers Academy and we are the last building on that avenue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 why do so many new people ask if they need to heat the metal before they can heat the metal ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will W. Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 Probably due mostly to lack of knowledge. I prescribe a few hours of forging and research, no less than two times per week. The condition should clear up within a few weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 Because heat treating metal is like voodoo to most people. They don't understand what is happening and so get mixed up in the various rituals and do them by rote. It's also why working with higher carbon steels and alloys is generally not considered a beginners task. More study is needed *after* you stop hammering like lightning----never hitting the same place twice and often doing a lot of damage when you do hit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gote Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 On June 6, 2017 at 5:34 PM, Steve Sells said: why do so many new people ask if they need to heat the metal before they can heat the metal ? Proably because they have heard that one should normalize before hardening and tempering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmccustomknives Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 On June 6, 2017 at 5:34 PM, Steve Sells said: why do so many new people ask if they need to heat the metal before they can heat the metal ? I believe that comes from the same book of bladesmithing where RR spikes are high carbon steel and you should quench in the blood of your enemies with the blade facing north. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 42 minutes ago, Scrambler82 said: One of the Forged in Fire shows had one of the Smiths doing just that, heating a piece of leaf spring, pulling it out of the fire and putting in back in, I think it was twice. When it was questioned of the Judges what he was doing, the response was attempting to normalize the steel and it was stated to be a good thing. I guess this is one of those times Reality Shows may not project all of the information ! Okay, sure; but wasn't that after forging rather than before? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 I don't recall that, but I'll take your word for it. This does highlight one of the strengths of this forum, though: it's self-correcting. This person may well have been attributing good results to a pre-forging normalization which were actually due to something else he was doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 I remember the episode, the judges discussing it among themselves before asking and their comment afterwards. I forget who said in effect, "Well, normalizing is a good thing." another judge said "after forging." and the three who are blacksmiths just shrugged. They aren't there to teach bladesmithing and normalizing wasn't damaging anything, just not helping. The whole discussions lasted a few seconds and I wouldn't have noticed at all if I wasn't thinking the same thing. It's pretty typical of folk trying to figure out a craft on their own. You don't know enough to know you don't know much. If it works go with it till you learn better. I spent years learning this craft on my own and spent almost as many unlearning things that just ain't so. I Still am but some things that ain't so work to a degree or don't do damage so they persist and soon become urban legend "facts." We hear it all the time on the forum. Folk can get pretty worked up when things they "KNOW" to be true are challenged. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 4 hours ago, Frosty said: I remember the episode, the judges discussing it among themselves before asking and their comment afterwards. I forget who said in effect, "Well, normalizing is a good thing." another judge said "after forging." and the three who are blacksmiths just shrugged. They aren't there to teach bladesmithing and normalizing wasn't damaging anything, just not helping. Ah, that was it. Thanks. 4 hours ago, Frosty said: Folk can get pretty worked up when things they "KNOW" to be true are challenged. Like an irrational preference for a certain Swedish anvil brand? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thief_Of_Navarre Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 On 19/06/2017 at 1:05 PM, JHCC said: Ah, that was it. Thanks. Like an irrational preference for a certain Swedish anvil brand? Or even a certain Sheffield one?... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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