Blacksmithing Myths

[Frosty]

39 minutes ago, ThomasPowers said:

Now you have me re-writing that ABBA song using "Commando"...

As long as you're doing something.

 

8 minutes ago, bobasaurus said:

I always thought packing was BS.  I hear about it all the time online and in old texts, but it never seemed right.  

Packing isn't about steel, it's about driving more slag out of wrought iron so it is indeed improved. 

Frosty The Lucky.

[gote]

13 hours ago, Glenn said:

if it ain't hot, it's sharp.

or dirty. The type of dirt that transfers to everything and will not wash off.

Is this thread not about MYTHS?

[WayneCoeArtistBlacksmith]

Another one, again not really a blacksmithing myth, As a kid when we would get ready to take a trip Daddy would always say right before we left, "Does anybody need to go pee pee?"  Several years ago my brother and I were getting ready to go on a backpacking trip into the Guadalupe National park.  Just as we were getting into the truck my brother said, "Does anybody need to go pee pee?  If ya do ya better go now 'cause we ant stoppin' 'til we get there." Here we have two grown men in their 50's and he sounded just like John Wayne.

[ThomasPowers]

Well edge packing would help refine grain size by providing a lot of dislocations to renucleate the grains when going through heat treat; but it doesn't increase the density and as already discussed modern alloys can handle this through proper heat treat much better than through forging.

[JHCC]

1 minute ago, ThomasPowers said:

Well edge packing would help refine grain size by providing a lot of dislocations to renucleate the grains when going through heat treat; but it doesn't increase the density and as already discussed modern alloys can handle this through proper heat treat much better than through forging.

ThomasPowers, am I correct in my recollection that many of the supposed benefits of edge packing simply derive from the (unintentional) normalizing that's going on while the smith is lightly working the steel from critical to sub-critical temperature?

[ThomasPowers]

With modern steels that could be a factor; with the old steels heavy forging was the primary method of grain refinement.  (when you throw in decarburization you get the "If a good blade you would win you must forge thick and grind thin" That is written in Moxon's 1703 edition of "Mechanics Exercises"  which predated Huntsman's cast steel and the bessemer/kelly process steels)

And of course Frosty is right that working wrought iron more decreases it's ferrous silicate content---but working it at low temps not as much as working it at HOT temps as the viscosity of the silicates decreases and so you can express more...

[mcostello]

One more family with the pee pee warning, with Mum and 3 sisters it was fruitless.

[Steve Sells]

and as a medic I may as well correct the other myth about clean underwear. they wont be if you are in a serious accident, because the bowels and bladder will release under serious duress IE. injury

[Frosty]

57 minutes ago, mcostello said:

One more family with the pee pee warning, with Mum and 3 sisters it was fruitless.

It was just Shannon and I in the back seat. "He's LOOKING AT ME!!" "HE TOUCHED ME!!" "Don't make me stop this car!" "Tough hold it, you should've gone before we left." Mother would "convince" Dad to relent but not before making us suffer a while first. Of course Shannon got a proper bathroom stop she IS a girl after all. Jerry could pee behind a bush, yucca, Joshua tree, whatever. 

Taught us to think ahead and it toughened up our bladders. Mother was the though one of the pair. Dad hated to stop between his scheduled stops. We drove past a lot of really interesting looking things but his plans were always excellent road trips. We did theme vacation road trips, most involving good rock hunting areas. There was the petrified wood vacation, crystals vacation, the fossils vacation, the cavern vacation, Carlsbad was the main feature but we visited probably 20 small some private caverns.

One of my favorites was the cliff dwelling vacation. Mesa Verde was astounding but not accessible. I can't remember other ruins by name we traveled New Mexico, Colorado, Arizona and California visiting cliff dwellings. Some you could walk through some guided some not. Walnut Canyon California is the the only other one I remember by name. 

The Anasazi and Pueblo Indians had some wicked nice digs. Most of the rivers, lakes, springs, etc. were dry but the ones that still had water available looked like perfect places to farm. They all were surprisingly cool in the desert heat. I remember one had a small cataract not quite waterfall that would've driven a modest waterwheel. A PERFECT place for a blacksmith shop. Once the smith was up and running he could build a power takeoff for a grain mill too. I LOVED that waterfall, cataract and the sudden recollection is my blacksmithing tie in. 

Frosty The Lucky.

[ThomasPowers]

I once found a cave, not marked on the topos; but NW AR is a karst region.  it was along a nice stream that included a good 20' water fall where it ran over a solid bed of rock.  I used to daydream of the waterwheel I could set up and use the cave for cold storage---we never found the end of the cave but we did spend about 4 hours going in and 2 going out exploring it.

And if my Mother said "Don't make me stop this car and cut a switch!"  well she wasn't bluffing, carried a barlow knife in her purse!  (She may be living in McLean VA married to an executive but she was born and raised on a farm!)

When I was having some medical issues I told my wife that if I'd ever win the lottery I'd have a fake tree installed every 10 miles along the interstate between Socorro and Albuquerque as there were NOT a proper tree, bush or exit anywhere near the road most places.

[Frosty]

Sounds sweet, stranded waterway? No telling where you might have come out. How about we arrange to meet up there after the apocalypse and we can get viable little community going?

I fell in love with Bryce Canyon formations first time I saw it. I've always loved the Sundance formation, even before I knew what it was, great colors and excellent fossil hunting. Bryce has best of both worlds. 

My Mother wielded a wooden spoon and never bluffed we got one warning and rarely a spanking. Funny how that known consequences thing works eh? One Christmas I bought her a T shirt with a June Clever '50s Mom driving a big Polar Bear sled. The lead bear looking back a bit worried about doing just what it was told. Mom was holding the handle in one hand a wooden spoon aloft in the other. Caption read, "Attila the Mom, Bearer of the Dreaded Wooden spoon!"

Make them shade trees and I'll throw in some of my lottery winnings.

If you ever get far enough north check out the Dale Wilbur, Prudhoe Bay National Forest. Just don't let anybody catch you peeing on the tree. Dale planted the tree in the late '60s. It gets decorated every Christmas and is a landmark but hasn't grown a needle. Still green but . .

Frosty The Lucky.

[Francis Trez Cole]

My Self I ring the anvil three times to remember Blacksmiths Past (Grant) to help guide my day at the forge. 

As for horse shoes I have heard that if the shoe is found a long the road it is unlucky Because the Horse lost it. also facing down at home to keep the money in and up at the forge to catch the money.

 

 

 

[ThomasPowers]

Well if I could get the waterwheel running and driving an alternator and running 12 V to an RV fridge then I'd have however many bottles of insulin I had to hand when it hit the fan; probably 3 to 6 months supply at most. Unfortunately I'm on the pump and so need to keep it charged as well.  Caves are generally quite good against EMP though.

Funny I can pretty well recall every time I got a paddling; not very many as I was a quick learner! I got to watch my cousins being raised too. One side of the family paddled as necessary and raised tremendous kids; the other side yelled a lot but never did anything and had spoiled brats.

Hmm I found a horseshoe around 9000' in the Atacama Desert and I considered that lucky...

[Frosty]

We'd be in a similar if not the same boat there. Of course if we had enough advanced warning to hook up we'd deserve to die if we couldn't stock and supply our survival digs properly. 

Refrigeration is easy peasy with a power supply, all we need is a compressor and some tubing. I have to inject myself you can adjust, it might not be ideal but better than nothing. We'd have to research how to manufacture insulin old school or hijack some Lilly lab techs. We'll hand forge their shackles, I'll even make them light and soften the edges so they don't hurt.

Maybe we should start another thread something like, "Curmudgeon preppers?" "Curmudgeons prep?" 

We could go down in blacksmithing mythology when civilization arises from the ashes. A couple thousand years from now, instead of Hephaestus one of the "gods" of blacksmithing might be "HeyFatmass1"

Frosty The Lucky.

[Dabbsterinn]

On 4/2/2017 at 6:27 AM, Glenn said:

Although the origins are not exactly known, it is believed that the horseshoe became the symbol of luck when the eighth century Chaldeans thought its crescent shape represented various moon goddesses thus protecting against the curse of the evil eye.

Others say the horseshoe myth dates back to a 10th century blacksmith named Dustan, the patron saint of blacksmiths

Some say the ends should point up, so that the horseshoe catches the luck, Others say they should point down, so that the luck is poured upon those entering the home. 

I have been told many times that a blacksmith hangs the horseshoe heels down so the protective powers and good fortune shower upon his anvil, and business.

another version that I´ve heard regarding horseshoes is that you have to find them somewhere in the field for them to bring you luck, because then they could be from Sleipnir, the story goes that he gallops so hard that he kicks his shoes off

[SLAG]

Just a note of further information.

Sleipnir is the Norse God Odin's eight legged horse.

SLAG.

[ThomasPowers]

And probably wouldn't have been shod back before Y1K...