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Tennis elbow / Blacksmith's Elbow -- Relief Technique


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I know there are a lot of threads on this:  how to prevent, mainly body / hammer techniques.  Some treatments.  I'm only doing this as a once-in-a-while hobby, so developing proper hammer technique doesn't come quickly, and I can't justify buying nice hammers / equipment.  I already had some elbow issues from "computer/mouse work" and from some weight lifting lots of pushups.  Hammering a few weekends in a row -really- made the problem worse.

So...I'm no doc, and I've not seen a doc about this problem.  I've been taking a lot of Advil, and icing, and doing a wrist-down-stretch which sort of helps a little.  And I have an arm band thing I found on Amazon (just so-so).  But there is one technique it tried last night and I got a TON of relief, right away.  Well, after 10-minutes-right-away.  No, it didn't solve the problem itself, or give me an excuse to develop better hammer technique, and the pain isn't -gone-, but it was so helpful in reducing my level of pain, that I want to share it with you folks.

I'm not sure about posting links to YouTube.  But if you Google this, and find a video from Dr. Calvin Ross, you should have the right one:

"tennis elbow trigger point massage"

I found Ross' video while searching for ways to deal with this issue, and found a video from someone else, demoing the technique, and pointing to Ross' video where he learned it.

Good luck!  - Q

 

Mod note: While youtube can have good information, it is NOT the same as going to a doctor that can diagnose the problem and recommend a course of treatment. 

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19 minutes ago, Quench. said:

I'm only doing this as a once-in-a-while hobby, so developing proper hammer technique doesn't come quickly, and I can't justify buying nice hammers / equipment.

Good hammer technique comes from practicing good hammer technique with EVERY hammer blow. A *nice* or *expensive* hammer is NOT going to change bad hammer technique, you must make the change.

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Of course, you are right.  I took a class at the John C. Campbell Folk School and learned some good hammering techniques there, and I try to practice them.  One issue is my anvil (ASO) which you can see in my post here:

That shape (very wide), and its stand (4 rows x 4 columns of 4x4 blocks), does not allow me to stand quite right for all operations.  Some operations I can, though--like for some drawing out, and that can really aggravate the elbow if not done properly.  But some other operations require me to use the far edge and I just can't get positioned right.  Also, that ASO does not rebound like the one I used at the Folk School.  So my comment about hammers applies even more to a proper anvil.  I've been on the lookout on CL, but they are priced so high for junk I might almost go buy a new one.

Good point though; if I had proper hammer technique, I might not need to look up techniques to relieve the pain. ;)

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44 minutes ago, Quench. said:

 One issue is my anvil (ASO) 

Third world country blacksmiths would enjoy having that AOS.

 

44 minutes ago, Quench. said:

That shape (very wide), and its stand (4 rows x 4 columns of 4x4 blocks), does not allow me to stand quite right for all operations. But some other operations require me to use the far edge and I just can't get positioned right. 

Then change the anvil support so you CAN use the AOS.

 

44 minutes ago, Quench. said:

So my comment about hammers applies even more to a proper anvil.  I've been on the lookout on CL, but they are priced so high for junk I might almost go buy a new one.

CL is NOT the only source for anvils. Have you been to the NC blacksmith meetings? Usually someone has an anvil for sale or knows where one is for sale. Do a site search for TPAAAT and follow the technique.

Once you damage your body it takes a long time to recover. Sometimes the damage can not be repaired. If you feel that your AOS is holding you back, or causing you body pain, blacksmiths elbow etc. then locate and buy an anvil, be it new, used, or whatever. The cost of a new anvil will end up being much less expensive than all the doctor bills.

You MUST learn proper techniques so you can enjoy playing in fire. Blacksmithing is suppose to be fun.

 

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Wow my best and most favorite hammers all cost me US$5 or less apiece.  Of course I go to fleamarkets on a regular basis.  The internet is NOT the best way to go for a lot of things.  

Do get your anvil on a proper stand at a proper height---not doing so is rather a mixed message "I can't afford to do this right; but I can afford thousands of dollars in surgery and months of downtime when I injure myself"  

I spent a Saturday once building anvil stands from oak 2x12 that I got off a scrapped horse trailer at the scrapyard for free. I cut them to the proper length with the outer ones 2" longer. Stood them up vertical on a piece of I beam and used some pipe clamps to hold them together. Then I drilled through them using an electrician's drill bit used to drill between studs in walls and put some long bolts used for utility pole fixtures or road guard rails---also found at the scrapyard. (these are the sort of stuff I pick up whenever I can find it and throw in a 5 gallon pail till needed) Bolted it up tight and dropped the anvils between the taller ends and put in a block on either side to keep them from wandering and had 4 anvil stands for about a dollar each + time.

You live in an area with trees; get a proper stump for your anviloid object and you will have to do less hammering!

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i've had tendinitis on my elbow since before i took up forging ... in my experience proper anvil height makes a huge difference. i've found an anvil that's mounted too high puts a lot of strain on my elbow, hand and wrist. as thomas notes ... building anvil stand is fairly easy - i've built 3 already from 4x4's bolted together. 

another thing to watch out for as a beginner is to make sure you wrap your thumb around the hammer handle  - don't place your thumb on the handle pointing up. 

 

 

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Squeezing the tongs or lifting/stabilizing heavy stock with your non-hammer hand can cause or aggravate the condition.  It did for me anyway.  In my case I think it's more gripping something tightly that causes the problem rather than the shock from hammering.  I have tennis elbow in both arms, but hammering for me rarely seems to cause any additional pain or problems. YMMV

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Tongs that snugly fit the workpiece. Rings or C-clips to hold the reins shut. 

Both of these maximize holding force while minimizing muscular effort in the gripping hand. You're not expending extra effort to overcome a poor grip or to hang onto a heavy workpiece.

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13 minutes ago, GoodThing Factory said:

hadnt really thought of that but it makes sense ... what do you to alleviate the gripping issue? 

With smaller diameter/cross section stock I generally use lengths that don't require me to use tongs, and I also support the piece with my hammer hand between the forge and the anvil.  Just have to be very aware of the "hot zone" on the piece being worked and/or use the hammer to rest the piece on while transferring.  And for larger diameter material stock I cut off what I need to work with so I'm not trying to lift a lot of weight with one hand.  It's a balancing act of sorts, but for me the goal is to handle things in a way that doesn't require a tight grip.  On the hammer side your grip shouldn't be tight anyway, and once you develop the habit of a somewhat loose grip you don't really have to think about it any more.

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1 hour ago, Buzzkill said:

On the hammer side your grip shouldn't be tight anyway, and once you develop the habit of a somewhat loose grip you don't really have to think about it any more.

When I was forging this past Saturday, a piece of scale popped off the workpiece and flew between the hammer handle and my thumb. That loosened my grip up right quick.

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For gripping the hammer too hard:  Size the hammer handle to fit your hand,  Have a knob on the end of it so you don't have the feeling it can slip out of a loose grip. In the winter when my skin is dry I like to put a bit of unprocessed beeswax on the handle to make it "sticky" even with a loose grip.  NO GLOVES!

For gripping the tongs too hard:  adjust the reins to a comfortable distance, use tongs with lighter reins and body, use tong clips/ring/etc, (you can use gloves if you are using a tong ring/clip/etc)

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FWIW I found that Thomas's comment regarding gloves is spot on.  I tried holding the hammer and tongs with gloves and found it to be exhausting.  I think it was because I couldn't feel my grip, so I gripped harder than necessary.  I even tried just a glove on the off hand, which only made my off hand strain.

I'd also like to add that a "handle" on the stock should serve to dampen vibration.  Trying to straighten out a spring by forging generates a lot of vibration on the cold end of the spring. 

Starting out with anything other than mild steel tends to generate an awful lot of difficulty for a beginner.  I started out with salvaged springs and rebar.  Everything moved so slowly and vibrated so bad I felt like a weakling.  I tried a piece of mild steel and everything changed.  High carbon steel is MUCH easier to burn than mild steel as well.  Once I wasn't fighting with red-hard materials that shook like crazy, it was easier to determine what worked and what didn't in terms of forging.  Getting the stock supported so that the hammer blow moves metal efficiently will generally result in less vibration through both hands.

If you watch experienced smiths working, their stock isn't bouncing around on the anvil.  Take a horse shoe shape for example.  If you were bending a flat bar into that shape, would you try to curl the end like a scroll?  That's what I tried to do and it was a dismal failure.

Then I saw a farrier who set the corner of the bar on the face of the anvil and struck the center of the bar with the hammer.  It seemed like hitting a bar while holding one end in tongs would put a heck of a lot of strain on your off-arm.  In fact, it bends the bar without much shock at all because you're splitting the leverage of the blow.  With decent heat isolation, the center is the only side that wants to bend.  "Turning" a piece of bar stock the hard way using shoe tongs wouldn't be possible without good mechanics. 

 

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I work with gloves sometimes and other times not, depending on the work, the ambient temperature, etc.  I haven't noticed a big difference in aggravating my tennis elbow one way or the other. IMHO the tong hand should be fairly relaxed as well and is more for stabilizing when the work is on the anvil than anything else.  The anvil should be holding the weight, so I can use a fairly loose grip which decreases the impact of vibrations compared to a firm grip.  When possible I stand in such a way that I hold the stock similar to how I hold a pool cue.  I keep the elbow in tight to my body and have a relaxed grip on the stock with the majority of the weight on the anvil.  Good hammer blows flat on the stock and anvil is also key in keeping the vibrations to a minimum.  Where I really aggravated my "tong arm" when forging was repeatedly transferring at piece of 1.5 inch round stock that was over 2 feet long between the forge and anvil.  I couldn't choke up on it much due to the heat and that forced me to grip it quite hard.  At the time I was using an 8 pound sledge one handed, which I can only do for a handful of strikes at a time, but the hammer arm didn't experience nearly the additional pain and discomfort as the tong arm.

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On 12/20/2016 at 9:04 AM, JHCC said:

Tongs that snugly fit the workpiece. Rings or C-clips to hold the reins shut. 

Both of these maximize holding force while minimizing muscular effort in the gripping hand. You're not expending extra effort to overcome a poor grip or to hang onto a heavy workpiece.

coundnt agree more abt snug fitting tongs in general ... seems like you can't have too many pairs properly fitted to the stick you're using. it's a real time sink to be working with metal that's flopping around or sliding out of the bit because the work piece isnt properly secured. 

On 12/20/2016 at 1:36 PM, rockstar.esq said:

FWIW I found that Thomas's comment regarding gloves is spot on.  I tried holding the hammer and tongs with gloves and found it to be exhausting.  I think it was because I couldn't feel my grip, so I gripped harder than necessary.  I even tried just a glove on the off hand, which only made my off hand strain.

i started out using gloves on both hands the way i would for welding but pretty quickly gave up the glove on my hammer hand ... seems like there's less strain on my hand and elbow w/o and my hammer control is much better ... maybe there's some cause and effect ... better hammer control = less strain. i do like usiing a glove on the other hand if i'm holding stock since i provides some protection from the heat

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  • 3 years later...
  • 1 year later...

Well here I am. I thought I just had a sore muscle, but after about three weeks of ignoring it, it got worse and then I realized: Ooo no. I don't think I did it with blacksmithing but it got worse after one session of it. Now I'm out of the shop and I have promises to keep on a project I started. "Luckily" it has been really hot past week (36 Celsius) so I wouldn't have been in the shop anyway. Hope when it heals it won't be a recurring thing.

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Shortly after I had taken my first blacksmithing class I had a pretty nasty break of my right arm and I had to have my whole right elbow put back together. I have a plate and 5 screws in my dominant arm, the longest of which is 65mm and reattaches my olecranon to my ulna after the former broke off entirely. This requires me to take extra care and listen to the aches and stiffness I will sometimes get with extended periods of heavy hammering. I'm used to spending 4-5 hours in the shop per day, but those pains generally require my taking at least a weekend off.

Like TP, mentioned it's not really something you can work through. While my case is perhaps an extreme one, the general premise of avoiding excess wear and tear on the joints is the same. I'm still relatively young (25), but I would like to have full* use of my arm for at least another 50 years. No need to push it.

*Full is a relative term, I'll never have my pre-accident range of motion in that arm.

If you're a snowboarder, beware of ice :rolleyes:

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Relatively young... is still a puppy to some of us old salts, over three times your age. At least you are trying to take better care of your body than I did at that age. It's a wonder I can still walk, with some of the things I did back in the day, motorcycle dirt track racing comes to mind. My Sensei used to say "Little ouch OK".

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