Frosty Posted August 3, 2016 Share Posted August 3, 2016 Any paper that is intended to be printed on like news paper is washed in kaolin clay so it will take ink without it bleeding out in smudges. All the inks and pigments in modern American news papers are plant based and non toxic, even colored. Glossy paper is different in finish and chemistry but non toxic if sold on the American market. It's also lousy for starting a fire and leaves a lot of ashes. The metallic pigments are old school and no longer. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Ling Posted August 3, 2016 Author Share Posted August 3, 2016 Do have your horn right, if your right handed and not a farrier. Do go back to basics now and then. Dont charge to little for your work! Do let your customers know that your products rust, (if they do) Do correct someone if they call you a farrier. Dont start blacksmithing in hopes of getting rich. Do make business cards if you plan on doing craft shows ( I must have gotten asked 30 times in one day if I had any) Littleblacksmith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockstar.esq Posted August 3, 2016 Share Posted August 3, 2016 Take a moment and google "Forge". Aside from a dictionary and Wikipedia page, there's nothing listed on the first page for a company that does blacksmithing in any capacity. The companies that do have forge in their name are almost never blacksmiths. I've even seen umbrellas and lemonade with forge in their names. It's obvious that marketing people are using "forge" to evoke toughness, or old-world craftsmanship. Marketing has rendered the word "forge" virtually meaningless to the public. Ask a random person to named a forged object, and there's a strong chance they'll reply with an example of counterfeiting or identity theft. Sure, we could lament the state of education, or the intelligence of the average person, but a business cannot afford to lose customers. Successful shops often have little reason to question how many opportunities are lost when potential customers can't find them. First impressions count, and everyone things they're possessed of above average intelligence. If your name sounds stupid to them, there's a hundred other companies they will go to. In the online world, you'd never know how many sales were lost. Getting really pedantic about definitions doesn't change the fact that it's still a misleading term. So you've got a forge, what do you actually do with it? More importantly, why can't the name of a business tell the public what they do? Every gas station has a restroom, and they're selling the products of a refinery, yet you never see gas stations branded with commodes or refineries because no reasonable consumer would look for that when they're running out of fuel. Finally, I'd really like you to consider how antiquated terms are susceptible to real world consequences. There are companies that sell firewood. The antiquated / pedantic term for a bundle of sticks is a faggot which would absolutely will bring a lot of misery to any public company so named. Ignore contemporary parlance at your peril. If a particular way of moving metal was inefficient, we'd list it here under "don't do that" . Naming your business "forge" is inefficient in the same terms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted August 3, 2016 Share Posted August 3, 2016 6 hours ago, littleblacksmith said: Do have your horn right, if your right handed and not a farrier Why ???? There are times when it is advantageous to have the horn facing left, The anvil is just a tool, use it to its best advantage. One particular "Do" is always be prepared to question what is occuring and why, there is no proper way, just a safe way, some ways work easier than others. One particular "Don't" is don't assume that because someone seems to be knowledgable that they are, and can back up their talk with actions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted August 3, 2016 Share Posted August 3, 2016 We had this discussion a while back and I went through 'Practical Blacksmithing' and made a list of how many times they had the horn one way and how many times the other way---but the first one I found was a place that did a lot of rings and they had the horn pointing at the forge/smith... Point it the way that makes sense for what you are doing and how you are doing it---and leave access to be able to dance around to the other side if that would be a better orientation for a bit of work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausfire Posted August 3, 2016 Share Posted August 3, 2016 Don't let anyone tell you that you have your anvil pointing the wrong way. The anvil is a tool ... use it in a way that you're comfortable with. My anvil has the horn pointing away. I work from the heel end because I find it comfortable for drawing out across the anvil and the pritchell hole is handy for punching. I did, however, heed one bit of advice about my work anvil from an old smith who watched one of my demos. He said I would have back problems if I continued to work on an anvil that was too low. We raised the anvil block by about 4 inches and he was right .. much more comfortable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLAG Posted August 3, 2016 Share Posted August 3, 2016 Metallic pigments are still used in printing. They are used less lately. But are still used. Reference is made to https://www.hdm-stuttgart.de/projekte/printing-inks/p_compo0.htm and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surface_chemistry_of_paper and http://nzic.org.nz/ChemProcesses/polymers/10E.pdf some such pigments are molybdenum reds, copper phthalocyanines, lithol an organic red pigment has a sulfur trioxide moiety in its molecule, chromates, and zinc pigments etc. Printed paper still has titanium oxide, titanium dioxide, calcium carbonate, or kaolin (a form of the mineral kaolinite, formula Al2Si2O3(OH)3, added to it. Mr. Frost would you please supply me with the references for your statement: "All the inks and pigments in modern American news papers are plant based and non toxic, even colored." I should like to read them in the original. Regards, SLAG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kozzy Posted August 3, 2016 Share Posted August 3, 2016 48 minutes ago, SLAG said: "All the inks and pigments in modern American news papers are plant based and non toxic, even colored." I should like to read them in the original. Regards, SLAG. Here is one link with some chemistry about the various colorants stating that most printing inks are now organic pigments, as well as the chemical formulas of those pigments. https://www.hdm-stuttgart.de/projekte/printing-inks/p_compo0.htm This is a little old. Most printing has switched to soy based oil as the carrier these days instead of mineral oils. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted August 4, 2016 Share Posted August 4, 2016 Oh come on, I let people tell me all kinds of things I ignore most of it though but once in a while a gem is presented, adjusting the anvil's height is a perfect example. It CAN be hard not replying to some of the real nitwits though, good practice for my dented brain's recovery. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausfire Posted August 4, 2016 Share Posted August 4, 2016 8 hours ago, Frosty said: Oh come on, I let people tell me all kinds of things I ignore most of it though but once in a while a gem is presented, adjusting the anvil's height is a perfect example. It CAN be hard not replying to some of the real nitwits though, good practice for my dented brain's recovery. Frosty The Lucky. Frosty, I ignore most of it too, but sometimes you have to bite your tongue. "The old time blacksmith wouldn't have plastic safety glasses" is another example of one comment I can't ignore. There are old time blacksmiths who only have one eye too. I will not compromise on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted August 4, 2016 Share Posted August 4, 2016 It just struck me how incredibly ironic all of this nonsense about not naming your business "Forge" and all the concomitant semantic nitpicking are, when you remember that the name of this forum is "I FORGE Iron". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Olson Posted August 4, 2016 Share Posted August 4, 2016 Do. Keep your space orginized. Always put your tool back after using it even if you need it after the next heat. That way you will never lose it because you know thats where you store it versus having to remember where you set it down at. For instance i know i keep all my wrenches and sockets in my tool box and when im mechanicing and use a tool i put it right back in the box instead of laying it somewhere on the car and having to search for it. That keeps the "minute men" away. You know, those little guys that come through and hide your stuff that you knew was just there a minute ago :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anchor B. Posted August 4, 2016 Share Posted August 4, 2016 I don't think this has been said yet but here it goes Do use the right steel for the right job. Do start with steel that is close to the same size as the finished product. Don't try to forge weld for a while until you understand and have a better knowledge of it. (From experience) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted August 4, 2016 Share Posted August 4, 2016 My great grandfather was a "traditional" smith in a small Arkansas hill town died in his 50's and so I never met him. Me I'm willing to try for my 3 score years and 10 and not spend the last part of it sitting around doing nothing cause I was stupid when I was younger. (Well I was; but lucked out enough to make it past those years with only a few scars and a lot of stories!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted August 4, 2016 Share Posted August 4, 2016 I once overheard a guy in the airport advising a younger colleague, "You have to live your life so that you either have a great time or a great story!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockstar.esq Posted August 4, 2016 Share Posted August 4, 2016 JHHC, I'm not sure I see where you're coming from. How does my post present a state of affairs that seems deliberately contrary to what one expects? You disregarded my argument as nonsense and semantic nitpicking then pointed out the forum's name as though it was somehow relevant or even ironic in the context of what's being discussed. I see "grammar hammer" is your tagline so perhaps it offends your sensibilities to think that the buying public would misinterpret "forge"? If everything worked like it should, business wouldn't be so difficult. I tried to help blacksmiths by encouraging them to think from their potential customer's perspective. This forum's name is a testament to how much blacksmiths are attracted to the word "forge". If the world agreed with blacksmiths, the first page of a google search for "forge" would actually show blacksmiths shops/ interests. Just messing around with Google searches I found: Old Spice makes a hair goop named "forge" There's a salon called "The Hair Forge" in Riverside California There's a food blog called "Rowley's Whiskey Forge" There's some kind of DOD software called "Forge" There are about a dozen different forums for the above "Forge" software There's a company called "Dwarven Forge" that makes role playing game "terrain" There's a blog called "Paint Forge" about painting miniatures There's a company called "Forge" that makes umbrellas There are more light fixture companies with forge in their name than I can list here. NONE of them are actually forged. These are first page results from a few minutes of searching. "Forge" is most often used for companies that aren't blacksmiths. That's a fact whether grammar rules support it or not. Compare that to "Iron work" and the whole picture tilts back to blacksmiths, fabricators, machinists, artists, welders, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausfire Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 On 5/08/2016 at 0:55 AM, Anchor B. said: I don't think this has been said yet but here it goes Do start with steel that is close to the same size as the finished product. Not too sure about that. I make a lot of ram's head bottle openers and it's a lot easier to forge the head on a long piece of square bar and then cut off the length required for the opener. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Ling Posted August 5, 2016 Author Share Posted August 5, 2016 4 minutes ago, ausfire said: Not too sure about that. I make a lot of ram's head bottle openers and it's a lot easier to forge the head on a long piece of square bar and then cut off the length required for the opener. I think (I may be wrong) but I think that he was reffering more to the diameter. Littleblacksmith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anchor B. Posted August 6, 2016 Share Posted August 6, 2016 Yeah, I'm sorry, I wasn't too clear about what I was trying to say. Littleblacksmith said it simpler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted August 6, 2016 Share Posted August 6, 2016 Ayup, leave it to Littleblacksmith to get diameter across. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Ling Posted August 6, 2016 Author Share Posted August 6, 2016 46 minutes ago, Frosty said: Ayup, leave it to Littleblacksmith to get diameter across. Frosty The Lucky. Thanks frosty. Lol Littleblacksmith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anachronist58 Posted August 6, 2016 Share Posted August 6, 2016 DO dress your struck tools to control the mushroom fragments that tend to form. DO NOT ask me how I dug that thing out of my arm! Robert Taylor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notownkid Posted August 6, 2016 Share Posted August 6, 2016 I'm late to this party but: After all this "Forge" conversation it makes me happier to have named my spot in life "Kedron Forge" regardless what the Word Police think it will stay that way. In "Gone with the Wind" there was a appropriate statement by Red Butler "Frankly My Dear - - - - -" This is the same conversation as there has been over Smith or Smithy, unless someone asks you don't tell him or her what to call themselves they are the ones carrying a hammer and holding hot steel. If you are fortunate enough to get invited to see their place it is best to smile and Oh and Ah a lot. It is theirs, paid for with their money and built with their sweat & in many cases blood. In my shop I have a 3' entrance door and a 8' exit door. don't want them looking for the door when the time comes to leave. If I had wanted to know what Webster had to say I would have looked I have a number of them, The Non PC Correct Kedron Forge (and I'll bet the experts will mispronounce Kedron too.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted August 6, 2016 Share Posted August 6, 2016 31 minutes ago, notownkid said: If I had wanted to know what Webster had to say I would have looked I have a number of them, Actually, Webster would have been on your side: "a place where objects are made by heating and shaping metal." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notownkid Posted August 6, 2016 Share Posted August 6, 2016 Great Thank You! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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