Michael Cochran Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 I really enjoyed my experience using the mig welder at work today (other than the burn I mention in another thread) and decided I'd like to get one for my shop. So here I am asking for suggestions as to which kind to get. To help you guys answer my question I'll tell you what I plan to use it for. I will use it for general welding projects such as making fixtures and jigs for different tasks. I also intend to use it for tack welding billets for pattern welding. I would like to have the ability to weld up to 1/2" plate and occasionally thicker sheet such as 16 gauge. I don't want to go to the store and buy one and turn around in a few months and have to get a new one because of limitations or poor construction. Lincoln and Miller are good brands I know but I was hoping there might be a less expensive yet still reliable brand I could go with. This isn't going to be something I buy in the next couple weeks because my budget is non existent at the moment but I was hoping to get the information now so I could start saving for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmccustomknives Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 Ok, up to 1/2". That's getting on up there. My preference would be the Miller Matic 252 or the Lincoln 255. Those are large machines and really for the more serious users. They are similar in price range. You'll need a bottle of gas to go along with it. When it comes to machines they are only as good as the availiability of the consumables. Take a Fronius, a very good mig welder but most in the states have never heard of them. (ok, they will set you back about 7 g's) The Miller and Lincoln will only be about half that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Cochran Posted July 19, 2016 Author Share Posted July 19, 2016 Well I can't afford that lol. Welding 1/2" would be only on occasion. Most of what I've welded so far was no bigger than 3/8" but I plan on building a power hammer in the near future and I figure I'll need to get something that'll weld thicker. Honestly I could probably take the pieces to work one day when we work a Saturday and just use the big one in the maintenance shop. I didn't even notice the name on it, all I know is it's big and a yellowish color. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swedefiddle Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 Don't shop by Price!! Shop for readily available parts. Miller, Lincoln should be OK. Off-Shore is off-shore, You get to buy it more than once. Once when you buy it and once again when it breaks. Neil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Cochran Posted July 19, 2016 Author Share Posted July 19, 2016 That's why I didn't wanna run out and buy a Chicago electric brand welder. The price is fine but as far as I know it's an import and on the lower end of the quality spectrum. Now if I had a couple people tell me they were great welders I'd consider getting one. What about the Lincoln 'easy mig 140'? It says it can do 24 gauge to 3/16 'with a single pass.' Is it possible to circle about in the weld pool and take a little longer on the weld and get it to reliably hold 3/8" or am I dreaming again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSW Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 3/8" max gives you a lot of possibilities. You'd be looking at roughly a 200 amp class mig. New, Miller MM211, MM 212 or larger, Hobart HH210 ( very similar to the older MM211 but with tapped settings or Ironman 230.The MM211 and the HH210 are nice because you can run on both 110v power at reduced output or full output on 230v power. I'm not all that familiar with the Lincoln line up but I'm sure they have a few that fit the bill as well. Used there's a ton of possibilities. If you can find a Miller MM200, it's got one of the nicest arcs for mig, even though it's an older machine. My MM185 would also work. There's also a number of CV power sources and feeder combos that might work as well. I'm partial to XMT 304's with a feder, but that may be more than you want to pony up as rigs like this used usually go in the $1500-1900 range. Nice thing about the XMT's is that you can do mig, DC tig and DC stick all with the same machine if you get the right accessories. A quick look on Searchtempest shows a guy who has 2 MM251's and a MM200 listed in WETUMPKA, looks like he may also have an ESAB machine as well. I'd be taking a hard look at the MM200 myself. I don't see a price, but I saw one listed elsewhere for $1000 the other day. If it had been closer to me I'd have been tempted to buy it and sell my MM185, or pass the deal on to a student of mine who's looking for a nice 230v 200-250 amp class mig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SomeGuy Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 I have a HF welder but that's because I'm too broke for anything better. I agree with what others say, buy a quality welder if you can afford it, ot have time to save up for a good one.. You might think about longevity brand welders. They have a 200 amp Mig and Stick duel process welder for about $700 and that seems like a great deal to me. It also has a 60% duty cycle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSW Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 You couldn't give me a Longevity welder. I've heard a lot of bad stories about how poor their customer service is when there are problems. I've seen in person how they like to conduct business when there are problems, and I'm not a fan. There are two or three other importers I wouldn't touch with a 10' pole as well because they have the same poor business practices and customer service. Not surprisingly, all those companies are owned either by the same person, or a close family member and some even ship from the same building.... Most importers don't supply service parts for their machines. Under warranty they just exchange machines often at the buyers expense as far as shipping goes. Be sure and read the warranty carefully if you buy from one of these guys. Many find out the hard way if they have problems that to exchange the machine, they pay shipping to send back the bad one and shipping to get the replacement. Another "trick" is to offer an "upgrade" for an additional fee, if there is an issue. What they won't tell you is that they don't have the machine they sold you any more because they sold out and no longer carry it. They'll offer you the current machine as an "upgrade", so you actually pay them to give you the only machine they have that they could exchange it with. Often they'll give you a song and dance that they are "out of stock, and don't know when the replacement machines will arrive, knowing full well they'll never get the old machines back in. If you choose to go with an import, even one from a company like Eastwoods, Northern Tool etc with reasonable warranty service, treat it as "disposable" as chances are if it breaks out of warranty, you won't be able to get it repaired. If you do choose to buy an import, I'd strongly suggest you use your credit card. This gives you the most leverage if there is an issue early on. While DOA machines aren't as common as they used to be, they still happen shockingly regularly. Some of these companies often drag their feet, don't respond to emails/phone calls and give excuses to get past the length of time the CC company gives you as buyers protection. They know once past that time limit, there's little to nothing you can do since they have your money already and have very little incentive to make it right. If you do have an issue, let your credit card company know right away that you want to dispute the charges. This can pressure these companies to make things right as the CC company will simply pull the funds until the issue gets resolved one way or another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gergely Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 it's not letting me post anything ok I give up maybe later Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Cochran Posted July 19, 2016 Author Share Posted July 19, 2016 Thanks for the input guys. Knowing I need something around 200 amps helps greatly in my search. I keep seeing smaller one that run on standard house voltage but wasn't too sure about using those simply because the stick welder I'm currently using is a '110/220' and it works much better on the high voltage. I don't know how long I'll wait before I buy but from what I've seen I'll have to do a lot of brown nosing with the wife to be able to buy one. If it was a couple hundred dollars it's one thing but $1000+ is completely different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SomeGuy Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 DSW, Longevity welders are an American owned and operated company. They are based in California. They do use Chinese factories but also have American owned ones as well. They claim to use the best factories in China. Lincoln welders do the same thing. Lincoln uses Chinese factories as well. Hardly anything is 100% USA made anymore. . The welding supply store where I get my wire and gas from said that longevity is a good welder. They sell mostly Lincoln welders though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Cochran Posted July 20, 2016 Author Share Posted July 20, 2016 Thanks to everyone here that gave advice. I think I've figured out which one I'm going to get. It'll take some time to save up for it but I'm looking at the Lincoln power mig 210 multi-process welder. It'll do mig, flux core, dc stick and dc tig. It's rated for 3/8" on the mig and up to 5/32 duc stick. If anyone knows of a reason not to get this one (personal bad experiences or someone you know but not a friend of a friend who knows a guy) please feel free to share. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmccustomknives Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 18 minutes ago, Michael Cochran said: Thanks to everyone here that gave advice. I think I've figured out which one I'm going to get. It'll take some time to save up for it but I'm looking at the Lincoln power mig 210 multi-process welder. It'll do mig, flux core, dc stick and dc tig. It's rated for 3/8" on the mig and up to 5/32 duc stick. If anyone knows of a reason not to get this one (personal bad experiences or someone you know but not a friend of a friend who knows a guy) please feel free to share. Good machines, everyone I've sold one to has loved it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Cochran Posted July 20, 2016 Author Share Posted July 20, 2016 To be honest I like the idea of its small size. In my small shop I don't have room for big welders but I could pack that little thing away in a cabinet or under the workbench when not in use. I also like the idea of being able to learn tig one day and not having to buy yet another tool to take up space I don't have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGGUNDOCTOR Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 I have a Millermatic 200 that I got at an auction for around $400, and I just picked up a 185 for $500 with accessories; bottle, two auto helmets, spool of wire, etc.. I also have a Lincoln Idealarc that has the digital controls---nothing but problems, stick with simple dials that last longer. Remember that even though a welder may only do 3/8" that is for one pass. A good weld prep, and multiple passes will do thicker material. For heavy structural like a power hammer I would lean towards a stick welder. My 600amp Miller mig would do it, but stick welders are a bit more affordable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arkie Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 On 7/19/2016 at 11:16 AM, SomeGuy said: DSW, Longevity welders are an American owned and operated company. They are based in California. They do use Chinese factories but also have American owned ones as well. They claim to use the best factories in China. Lincoln welders do the same thing. Lincoln uses Chinese factories as well. Hardly anything is 100% USA made anymore. . The welding supply store where I get my wire and gas from said that longevity is a good welder. They sell mostly Lincoln welders though. Cruise on over to weldingweb...search Longevity. Be prepared for some bad news about them. Heed DSW's advise....'jus sayin'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kozzy Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 A good welder is not an expense, it's an investment. Good quality and desirable welding equipment retains value well if you buy right (and don't beat it to death). Although it drains your wallet up front, it has value and salability on the back side which offsets that initial pain. Just something to think about for people wanting to "get in cheap" and ponding some of the lesser offerings because they seem "less expensive". If you knew the used car you were thinking about buying would retain 90% of it's value vs the cheaper one that only retained 20%, would it affect your buying decision? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Cochran Posted July 20, 2016 Author Share Posted July 20, 2016 21 hours ago, Scrambler82 said: I have a Miller 210, a little older but it still works and "YES" I would buy Miller again ! I weld 1/2" without a problem, I think I could go thicker ! It is larger than the 110 volt units and you can weld,longer than the 110 units. Oh ya, if you have 220 volts with a 30-50 amp circuit get a 220 volt unit they do everything better. Most people do not have 220 volts available and will not be able to borrow it ! LoL ! Just buy a good brand name, it will last longer, yes cost more but now-a-days quality cost more ! Another good tool for steel work is a Plama Cutter, if monies permit ! The Lincoln 210 I'm lookin at will work on 110 or 220. Most of the time it'll probably run on 220. I have to upgrade my service on my new shop to accept a welder but have the plug in my old shop for now. A plasma cutter would be great one day but truth is I probably couldn't use it enough to make it worth buyin one. Of course that's like the welder, I never thought I'd use it as much as I do but I'm constantly finding something to weld after gettin get hat little buzz box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SomeGuy Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 10 hours ago, arkie said: Cruise on over to weldingweb...search Longevity. Be prepared for some bad news about them. Heed DSW's advise....'jus sayin'. Maybe you're correct. However, there is the fan boy fanaticism that we see with such things. Like xbox vs playstation. To an xbox guy a playstation is junk. I see this phenomenon in just about everything. However, those folks over at the welding forums might just be right, I don't know. I will say one thing, I use a junky Harbor freight welder. I get by. I would gladly take something better but I get by. I'm just glad to have a mig welder I'll say this too. The value of that longevity is not much different than a Lincoln. You are getting about 20 more amps and a whole lot more duty cycle, but the price is about the same as a Lincoln. Buy a Lincoln, at least you know you are getting a good welder. 20 more amps isn't really much, and a 60% duty cycle isn't really needed anyway. It really comes down to the skill of the person whos operating the welder anyway, Buy the Lincoln, I'm sure you wont be disappointed. I know Millers are recommended too, but I have no idea about their cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 Big factor in longevity is: can you get repair parts?Miller and Lincoln tend to support their products a LOT better/longer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natenaaron Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 22 minutes ago, ThomasPowers said: Big factor in longevity is: can you get repair parts?Miller and Lincoln tend to support their products a LOT better/longer. This is quite true. I have a millermatic 185 which is a minimum of 16 years old. No issue getting parts at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSW Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 Many of the older store brands like Craftaman, Montgomery Wards and Dayton, were made by Century, now owned by Lincoln. They were good solid machines, though parts availability may be spotty. Most transformer stick machines have almost nothing that can fail that can't be easily replaced by generic parts. Usually you are looking at a bad on/off switch, or a bad fan, though occasionally you get burned out diodes in the DC rectifier of AC/DC machines. All those parts are easily sourced generically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGGUNDOCTOR Posted July 27, 2016 Share Posted July 27, 2016 Craigslist here has a ton of good brand MIGs for decent prices. Watch the ads and be ready to jump when one comes across in your price range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodThing Factory Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 I've had a lincoln 140c for maybe 10 years and weld 3/8 & 1/2" plate to use for jigs which take a pretty good beating all the time - if you prep the joint and give it a 2nd pass the machine will perform well above spec. i think the kit cost about 800 back then. i think you'd be pressed to find the quality for less money Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wood-N-Metal Workshop Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 I just picked up the Lincoln 210 MP about a week ago, I haven't used it much yet but the test beads I ran right out of the box were great. Here is a video I did on it. https://www.youtube.com/embed/BooODsjXH-o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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