Advice on quitting my job for forging

[VaughnT]

57 minutes ago, Jackhammer said:

I don't see how I can answer those questions on my own, sitting here in my apartment searching on Google. Instead I should be learning the craft and business side from mentors and teachers.

I don't see how I can learn blacksmithing if I need to invent every technique on my own as I would have no teacher. That's so much wasted time and effort. Also if I have a job I have no time to do forging. After the job and preparing dinner and doing chores there's not much time left of the day. Like 4 hours of scratching my head trying to invent the wheel.

There are fairs further away, I would have to travel to a few of those to demonstrate. I'm interested in making axes. Everyone wants a good axe.

VaughnT you're not providing any solutions, you just look for reasons not to do it. You say I should have all the skills of a senior master blacksmith and businessman from the start, which is impossible.

You asked if you should quit your job and go to full-time school to be a blacksmith.  I said no and explained my reasoning.  If you don't like the points I've made, fine.  It seems to me that you are only looking for people to affirm your desire to do it.

You have nearly zero experience with blacksmithing, but think you like it well enough to actually go to school for it and try to make it a career.  That's not logical because you really don't have any experience with the trade.  So, take on larger projects and build larger projects.  There are plenty of videos on youtube that show step-by-step processes.

Business is business.  What you're selling isn't important.  So take night classes on business.  Study business in your off hours.  So far, you've said that you're not aware of any fairs or festivals in your area where you could do demonstrations and get your name out there and drum up sales.  You don't see a lot of people wanting hand-forged iron products around their homes.  So, where are you going to get the sales you need to keep the lights on?  Any business you want to start is going to need customers.  If there isn't any apparent demand for the product in that area.... sales won't be there.

You're assuming that you can make a go of it, and I'm telling you that you need to answer all these questions before you make a leap into a field that you cannot make a living at.  You might like blacksmithing, but you need to answer the hard questions about the viability of the business.  

What do you know about this school?  What exactly is their curriculum?  Do they only teach you the basics of blacksmithing, or do they cover the business of blacksmithing?  Do they have a job placement program?  These are all questions you should be asking before you even think about quitting your full-time job.  An educated decision is the the best decision, after all.

 

[Donniev]

I agree with the ones saying take the chances when you are young. I quit my job to play online poker for a living years ago, and while it lasted, I enjoyed it for the most part. Even if you fail, it sounds like you have a degree to fall back on, as long as you at least stay somewhat on top of any major changes in the technology you would be using. Go for it

[ianinsa]

I'm going to chip in my 2 cents worth here, firstly have you thought about changing your location? Going somewhere where your current qualification is still valid(so you can still have a paying day job) and where there are still active blacksmiths? That way you can possibly take a three day drafting/electrical engineering job and a three day work to learn job? You are still young enough to live in youth hostels and shared digs. Thus an opportunity to travel, have fun , learn and experience more of the fun parts of life. Furthermore when put on your cv this way it will indicate a spirit of adventure rather than a reckless dreamer.

[rockstar.esq]

I think Vaughn has raised some excellent points.  The "do what you love" crowd have certainly made their arguments clear and persuasive.  I think Vaughn's pointing out how unintended consequences can be pretty obvious if you "look past the sale".  Education is presented like it's an unmitigated good thing.  Merely living through an educational experience is likewise lauded as though it's an unqualified success.

Plenty of fools have lived through a self-caused disaster, now they're slower moving fools.  There's an entire generation of young folks holding degrees, and monstrous debt who can't move out from their parents house because they can't get a job.  Parents who should be saving for their retirement are instead supporting their adult children.  The cycle of debt means that those parents will likely need their kids to support them in their retirement.

Adult children are delaying marriage and having children because they can't support themselves.  Pretending that there's always time to have kids later is a bet against biology.

Life's about more than your career and your hobbies.  Parenthood is an incredible experience that brings lots of responsibilities, obligations, and work.  It's worth pointing out to young people that parenthood may be more important to their future significant other than they can possibly imagine right now. 

I think it's incredible that Jackhammer's earned an Electrical Engineering degree and hasn't considered the immense field of opportunities that education provides.  There are tons of EE jobs that are in the field, far from cubicle filled offices.  In fact, time spent in the field as a rookie yields incredible pay raises later in an engineer's career.  There are plenty of office dwellers who've never solved a problem on a working site. 

Beyond all of that, I think Vaughn's suggestion that Jackhammer figure out how things come together before making the leap is very sound advice.  Working at a successful blacksmith shop as an intern for long enough to really understand the business would be a good starting point.  If you can't find such a shop (or sufficient customer demand to support one), it's a firm and fair warning that there's a reason they don't exist. 

 

[Jarntagforge]

18 hours ago, VaughnT said:

You're assuming that you can make a go of it, and I'm telling you that you need to answer all these questions before you make a leap into a field that you cannot make a living at.

I was confused before and even more confused now. How can I answer those questions without starting up a business, doing my best and seeing the end results?

I only picked electrical engineering because I thought I would get to have fun with automatic processes and robots. Little did I know it's all cubicle work and papers. I don't care much for my profession, but my job bosses and colleagues are top notch. I'm still not looking forward to going to work and in the near future I'm expecting another chair in another job task, looking at another computer screen.

I'm therefore looking to blacksmithing to save me because it has many elements I'm interested in: practical work, old-time work, drawing, being meticulous. It feels magical! Purposeful!

18 hours ago, VaughnT said:

 What exactly is their curriculum?  Do they only teach you the basics of blacksmithing, or do they cover the business of blacksmithing?  Do they have a job placement program?

They cover entrepreneurship and business. The rest is loads of blacksmithing techniques, a practical thesis work, basics of welding,casting and turning/lathe machining, internships, design, history, workshops, blueprints.

After the latest two long replies I now started to worry about money. Can't I come back from the school, get a part-time job to cover my expenses and put the rest of the work week on building a business? Making example work, going to fairs, using social media, travelling to markets in cities to sell products and make myself known. Gather more and more orders. All the while not spending any money I don't have. Thanks for your replies.

[arftist]

On 6/1/2016 at 7:34 PM, BIGGUNDOCTOR said:

Here is my take on this.

Making a living as a full time smith will be tough as it is, and could be a lot tougher depending on where you live. Especially now since there may be a lot more yahoos hanging their shingle out as a smith than say 5 years ago thanks to shows like Forged in Fire.  Yes, there are some guys who can make $50,000 for an entry gate, but most do not. Find a niche and fill it.

 

By your own admission you are not confident, and social skills need work. Both of those are needed to run a business by yourself. I was 22 when I opened my machine and fab shop with a friend. Back then I was fearless, and jumped in with both feet. After we closed up 6 years later I went to work for a former customer, and several jobs since then.. So, what did I take away from that experience, and the 23 years since I closed up? I learned that I never charged enough, every city/county/state agency wants money from you, you work more than a 40 hour a week job and enjoy it, we made the right choice cash flowing the business rather than getting buried in debt, everything takes longer than you expect, getting customers to pay can be a process, we were not aggressive enough in getting new customers, you want to own the building you work out of, and those 6 years were the only time during my career that I was truly happy going to work. I have made more money than when I had my shop, but I have never been as happy.

 

I want to open another business, and it won't be another shop. Machine and fab shops are very cutthroat today, and the investment in CNC equipment is huge. I am also not as fearless as I used to be. My overhead is pretty low as I am single, no kids, and my only debt is my mortgage, so if I made $4,000 a month I would be more than OK. That is essentially a straight $25 per hr job. One of my passions is cooking, and I just about have a commercial kitchen at home.  I have the equipment to open a restaurant, or a business that makes items like pies for other restaurants/customers. But who knows, I may just go into buying and selling as I seem to find good deals pretty often, and I enjoy the treasure hunt aspect of that too. Whatever you do, do what makes you happy. I don't care how much you are making, if you are not happy, it isn't enough. I know people who have given up well paying corporate jobs to live the simple life and are much happier than when they were rolling in money. Everyone is different. 

 

Definitely keep up on your engineering skills since the tech sector isn't going away anytime soon. Try Frank's classes, and also look into getting some classes for running a small business.  But do it now, not later. I am full of regrets today for not taking more chances when I was younger.  You only get to ride the rollercoaster of life once, make it count, and most of all have fun and enjoy the ride.

 

Great post.

Thanks

Jackhammer;

Considering your reply to Vaughn

in the first post on this (second page)

I am not sure you would be able to do this.

If working 8 hours a day leaves you no time for anything else how will you find the 80 hours or more per week that a business requires?

I started my business in 1982.

I worked full time job, and did my business nigts and weekends.

when the business consumed more hours than the job I quit the job,

many years later. 

[Frosty]

I'm loving this thread, thanks for asking the questions Jack. All the advice has merit and is well worth consideration. However we can't "tell" you what to do.

A couple posts back YOU listed the things you need to learn pretty well. However, as Vaughn has tried to point out you've made some fundamentally wrong assumptions. Have you heard the old Blacksmithing saw about "How to make a small fortune as a blacksmith? Start with a LARGE fortune." You've heard that one yes? That's the road you'll be on if you try modeling your operation on other blacksmiths businesses.

Keep a day job if nothing else it'll keep you in a nice apartment, beer and pizza while you're learning blacksmithing. If you really want to start a business study business. Businesses usually don't fail because the people can't make whatever it is they make or do they usually fail because the people don't know how to run a BUSINESS.

I have to agree, go for your dreams while you're young enough to survive failed enterprises. In the day our folks called it "sowing your wild oats." And that's not JUST meeting attractive ladies or men and partying, it's time for experimenting with life in general.

When I moved out of my parent's house I moved 3,600 miles to Alaska and started from scratch in a pretty alien place. I grew up in Southern California, high desert city of millions, heavily industrialized, support industries from farms and ranches to aero space. Pretty unlimited opportunity for a youngster with my skills sets. Where'd I go? Ayup to a place where logging and fishing are the main "industries." Serious change but I've never regretted it, even took classes to fill the voids in my education. Well SOME of the voids.

I guess in short my advice based on my experiences goes like this. Go for it but have back up plans: Get a part time job where ever you go. Take business and associated courses, you don't need a degree you need a working knowledge of those trades.  Remember the more trades you can practice the less likely you'll be out of work begging change on a corner.

Frosty The Lucky.

[VaughnT]

31 minutes ago, Jackhammer said:

How can I answer those questions without starting up a business, doing my best and seeing the end results?

I only picked electrical engineering because I thought I would get to have fun with automatic processes and robots. Little did I know it's all cubicle work and papers. 

I'm therefore looking to blacksmithing to save me because it has many elements I'm interested in: practical work, old-time work, drawing, being meticulous. It feels magical! Purposeful!

They cover entrepreneurship and business. The rest is loads of blacksmithing techniques, a practical thesis work, basics of welding,casting and turning/lathe machining, internships, design, history, workshops, blueprints.

After the latest two long replies I now started to worry about money. Can't I come back from the school, get a part-time job to cover my expenses and put the rest of the work week on building a business? Making example work, going to fairs, using social media, travelling to markets in cities to sell products and make myself known. Gather more and more orders. All the while not spending any money I don't have. Thanks for your replies.

You can answer those questions by doing market analysis.  You do research into the field to see what is and isn't selling, where it's selling, the types of customers that are buying the products, etc.  You might find that the area you live in just doesn't have a large enough market for forged goods.... and that's why there isn't already a blacksmith plying his trade in the region.

You picked electrical engineering on a whim without doing the research needed to understand exactly what was going to be required of you.  Expect blacksmithing and running your own business to be much the same.  How hard is that to understand?

You have almost no practical smithing experience, having made a few key fobs and the like, but you already think it has all the cool elements that you'll like to do for a full-time job.  You're seeing things through the romantic lens and not what it's really like.  Any small business requires a ton of the cubicle work that you don't like.  The amount of time you actually get to spend in the shop making things is a very tiny percentage.

You should be worried about money because money is always an issue.  Just because you drive down to some festival to show off all your stuff doesn't mean you'll get any sales while there -- the only guarantee is that you'll have to cover all the expenses of making the product to sell and traveling to and from the show.  And you might do five shows a year without any tangible or appreciable returns.  That's the life of the artist, though.

So, why quit a lucrative job that gives you an element of financial security?  It's nice that you have a school that teaches the trade.  Try to take night classes or a short weekend course so you can get more experience with it and see if it's something you really, truly think you can do for a full-time job. Watch youtube videos and practice what you see there.

 

[Frank Turley]

On ‎6‎/‎2‎/‎2016 at 5:17 PM, SpankySmith said:

Close!!  Religious Studies, I double majored in psych and religion as an undergrad. 

Tie smithing with "Spirit." I recommend reading "The Forge and the Crucible" by Mircea Eliade. This is heavy duty reading, for me about one page on the crapper per day. Eliade was a contemporary of Carl Jung's. I think they knew each other but their views diverged somewhat. The book doesn't tell you how to make a dang thing. It is about alchemy in China, India, and Europe. He includes a bit about African tribal alchemy, as well. In later life, Eliade left Europe for the United States where he taught Religious Studies at the University of Chicago.

[rockstar.esq]

Jackhammer,

With respect, I think you should spend some time looking into what's available to an Electrical Engineer before you conclude that your current job is the sum-total of your career path.  There are Electrical Engineers working in many industries.  You mentioned robotics.  I worked in the semi-conductor manufacturing industry.  I've worked in German cleanrooms filled with machines that are state of the art and most of them had several robots running around the clock.  When production hits a snag, the problem is escalated every additional minute they're down.  There will be full-bore engineering support on the production floor within the first twenty minutes in most cases.  Those facilities are all over Europe, and my job at the time required 95% travel.  The product is constantly changing as well to keep up with the competition.  It's a VERY challenging field.

Drones are making entry into many industries including construction where they can provide real-time telemetry, range finding, distance measuring, and site progress documentation.  Rail companies may appear less advanced, but the diesel electric powerplants in a modern locomotive require very advanced electrical engineering. 

Super sized shipping vessels are self-supporting floating cities.  It's no coincidence that when the captain has a problem with the ship, they call down to engineering. 

Taking a different direction, you could look into companies that make tools and equipment for work you're interested in.  CNC milling machines, Foundry furnaces, Welder manufacturers, Power hammer manufacturers, all these firms employ electrical engineers.  When an engineer works for a company that actually makes stuff, they're typically involved in production-floor or in the field problem solving.  I know a mechanical engineer working for a premium rifle scope maker in Colorado who rarely finds time to sit at a desk. 

Another thing to consider is embedded industries.  A car maker might not bother to manufacture all the bolts that hold a car together.  That means any given car factory has several local machine shops that make bolts on a contract basis.  The car makers often have stringent standards which means there has to be a quality control system.  I used to work for a company that made high-speed nut and bolt inspection equipment.  They could take hundreds of measurements on every single bolt sliding down a chute and sort the good from the bad in milliseconds. We're talking lasers, inductive resonance mapping, and mass testing in a horribly oily and high-impact environment.  Everything had to run around the clock for three months between service intervals without issue.  It's one thing to engineer a machine that works when it's new, it's quite another to engineer something that works reliably in harsh conditions.  There's no way to do that job well from a desk.

Now I grant you that few of these suggestions will be a short walk from your front door, but looking into them is easier now than it's ever been.

[SpankySmith]

1 hour ago, Frank Turley said:

Tie smithing with "Spirit." I recommend reading "The Forge and the Crucible" by Mircea Eliade. This is heavy duty reading, for me about one page on the crapper per day. Eliade was a contemporary of Carl Jung's. I think they knew each other but their views diverged somewhat. The book doesn't tell you how to make a dang thing. It is about alchemy in China, India, and Europe. He includes a bit about African tribal alchemy, as well. In later life, Eliade left Europe for the United States where he taught Religious Studies at the University of Chicago.

Thanks, Frank, I'll look that up!

[Frosty]

4 hours ago, SpankySmith said:

Thanks, Frank, I'll look that up!

You need some new bathroom reading material Spanky?

Frosty The Lucky.

[GoodThing Factory]

in addition to having an anvil and a few hammers i'm also and primarily an executive recruiter (headhunter) - have been for more than 25 years. i'm not going to give you an opinion - mine is no more valid than the ones shared above - but i have a story ... 

about 15 years ago i got a call from a young man who was probably no more than 18 looking for a job as a software developer for an internet company. he actually had some experience with what at the time was a "hot" internet company - he was one of these kids who started programming in middle school. i listened to him for a few minutes ... to be candid, he was obnoxious, had an incredibly high opinion of himself and virtually no self - awareness. When he stopped talking I asked if he wanted my opinion  - he said sure.  i told him to go back to school, that while he may find another job with an interesting company in the short term he needed to think about five years from now when he'd be some guy with a bit of experience and no degree who had worked for a bunch of failed companies. going to college was the prudent choice and this idea of finding some company where he'd make life changing money was a fantasy with the same probability as winning the lottery. we hung up and i didn't give the call a second thought - while it was a unique conversation in some ways, i talk to 1000's of people a year so this one just faded into the background. 

by now you know there's an interesting end to the story ... which, of course, there is. turned out that kid who i told to be "smart" and go back to college was one of the first 10 people hired at facebook ... he's worth billions. yes, billions with a B. 

i'm not suggesting you'll become the facebook of blacksmithing or that you give up your day job but there's a lesson in there. this young man was convinced he was going to be successful and he was passionate about what he wanted to do - all the logic in the work wasn't going to deter him. if there's anything i've learned in my years as a recruiter it's that successful people are doing what they love. no, doing what you love doesn't guarantee success but i can't think of a successful person who isn't passionate about what they do. 

if you know in your heart smithing is it for you then you already know you're off to sweden. that said, it's a tough road and a big risk so if you've got some doubts maybe best not push all your chips in the pot on one hand. 

 

 

[Latticino]

Well that is a tough story to follow, but I do have one additional caution, from my own personal experience being a former self employed craftsman.  In addition to taking the previous advise very seriously regarding the amount of time you will need to concentrate on the business side of the equation (sales, marketing, shipping, paperwork...), you also need to be prepared for the mind numbing effect of doing production work, even in a trade you love. 

I dropped out of engineering, went and got an MFA from a craft school and had a self supporting small hot shop glass studio for around 10 years.  I sold at both retail and wholesale shows around the country (U.S.), but it was an uncertain existance.  In my experience customers typically don't want, or at least don't want to pay for, original one of a kind art pieces in any great amounts.  They want the low end, easily approachable, paperweights, Christmas ornaments, tumblers and small vases (key fobs, S-hooks, bottle openers and candlesticks for the blacksmith).  Before you make a final decision I suggest you get yourself a small forge setup, take a mini-vacation for 2 weeks from your desk job and crank out a couple hundred S-hooks, and at least a hundred bottle openers with jigs made to standardize as much as possible.  If you are still enamored regarding blacksmithing, put a finish coat of some sort on your products and take them to a decent local craft fair and set up a table.  See how well you do selling your work and what the overall simple hourly rate works out to.

While there are some craftsmen who are supporting themselves on either custom commissioned work, or have become nationally famous for their major sculpture or collectable craftwork (yes Albert Paley is up in my area, and I've attended lectures by Chihuly, Marioni, and Morris, among others), for each one of them there are literally thousands struggling to get by. A year after my son was born I went back to engineering.

On the other hand, in your shoes I would probably still head off to the apprenticeship.  After all, I basically did that when I could for myself.  It was a great life experience, and one I still cherish.  Certainly not an easy life, but at least you have a fall back position.

[Jarntagforge]

Thanks for the replies! I had almost made up my mind to go to the school but now I've gotten cold feet. It's starting to feel overwhelming. Also if I go to school I don't like how I'm not getting income for the 4 school years, so I'll be 31 years old and have no savings. Then afterwards on top of that I'd struggle with starting up the business for a few years still. I could get a part-time job to cover expenses but that doesn't change much. I'd still be poor. I have no debt but I'll want to buy a house in the future. So perhaps I'll work for another year, do blacksmithing in my free time, learn business, see if I really want to take the leap. But I'm worried I'll lose the fire while waiting, or simply waste another year. One person said "There are no right decisions, you make a decision and then make the decision right." hmm...

[ThomasPowers]

There is something to be said for letting as big company pay for your personal equipment.  And if you want to go pro you really need good equipment and it's a lot easier to start with it than try to expand on what you are bringing in without it.  I think I would try to get an in with a small scale brewery that might like custom pieces designed around their products...

[rockstar.esq]

GoodThings post has some wisdom in it.  Successful people are committed to their pursuits.  However I find the  HR trend of referring to "passion" to be a tad misleading.  If you stopped to interview a bench full of hobo's you'll probably find they're just as full of passion as anybody else. 

Hard work, commitment, and education are all important but they won't make you a success without timing and opportunity.  There are ton's of armchair Aristotles out there whose ideas will never gain traction because they didn't align what's in their head, with what the world needs right now.

The majority of college students drop out before they've earned a degree.  Even if someone else is footing the bill, they lost out on the opportunity to develop skills and earn money elsewhere.  Recent surveys in the US show that factoring the lost opportunity and the debt incurred, the majority of new college students will have lower lifetime earnings compared to high school graduates who just went to work right away.  That's lifetime earning potential.  The hidden detail here is that promotions are generally based on past performance.  Five years of working experience is a veritable lifetime in many industries.   Even starting a lower payscale than college grads, the promotion track means that motivated people are in senior positions by the time college grads are hiring on as interns.

Washing out after two or three years at a University is a deadly serious thing, but it happens constantly. If that time were spent at trade schools, or junior/community college's these students would leave with marketable skills and a degree/certification.  It's worth pointing out that trade schools and junior/community colleges don't typically foster the "weed-out" course mentality found in Universities.  It's a craven attempt to prolong the education and enhance profitability for the institution while pretending it's about promoting excellence. 

There's no earthly reason that a person couldn't take blacksmithing courses at a range of schools in their free time.  Just because one school has a longer curriculum doesn't mean it's necessarily a superior education.  Most higher education here insists on a "well rounded" experience which means you've got to take costly and time-consuming coursework that doesn't apply to your vocation. They're not interested in practicality which is why most grads have absolutely no idea how to manage employees, interpret statistics, or read a legal contract.

Any one of the many traveling Electrical Engineering jobs I've previously mentioned could potentially allow you to study under the worlds finest blacksmiths.  Most jobs that require huge amounts of travel offer significant compensation for things like transportation.  Lots of larger employers will subsidize or outright pay for continuing education.

 

[Frosty]

Me again, I could add that when Dad worked for someone else he put in 40-60 hr. weeks and almost never got home before dark. When he opened his own shop doubled his weekly time and did a lot of paperwork at home, then Mother went to work in the shop and us kids as well. Like everything in life there are rewards and penalties / costs to every decision. Life is about risk management and endurance.

A few years ago Mike Rowe of "Dirty Jobs" fame was doing an interview on the Dennis Miller radio program. It was a wonderful hour of interview, I really like Mike. Anyway the one thing that REALLY stuck with me was a bit of wisdom he passed on. When asked about what made him do such a difficult program as "Dirty Jobs" and how he could do so many horrible jobs and keep such a good attitude.

He replied. (to paraphrase) 'People say, "Follow your passion." I've been hearing that all my life. "I don't, I take my passion with me."

That one short sentence is Mike Rowe at his core, why he could take sewage sprayed in his face and mouth and laugh about it. THAT is the secret of success. YOU feel passion for a thing be it a job or an object, the job or thing doesn't feel a thing for you or anything. If you feel passion for a thing pursue it with passion, do it with open eyes, evaluate the risks and rewards but "Take your passion with you."

Frosty The Lucky.

 

[Jarntagforge]

rockstar.esq I don't know why you brought up all that. And I don't see how another Electrical Engineering job would let me study under a master blacksmith. Possibly if I moved and worked on the weekends, don't know what to say to that. Is that a way to learn to master a craft, weekend practice?

Frosty, thanks. I know you all can't make this decision for me. But the advice here is so conflicting. Everything from "go to school just for the experience" and "stay at your job, blacksmithing is an impossible job only meant for a few gurus". Iiiiiii don't know.

I'm going to the school on the weekend to check it out. I hope to get to talk to a few students. One of the students I've been in contact with says he's not worried about finding work, and said he knows there's a blacksmith in most 100 000+ inhabitants cities in the middle and southern Sweden. So he sounded very positive at least.

[Buzzkill]

This may not be much help to you, but two phrases went through my mind when reading this:

"Starving artist"  and  "It's better to regret something you have done than something you haven't done."

In other words if you are so passionate about something that you're willing to live a spartan life to pursue it then it will always seem worth it to you.  If you are passionate about something but you let fear of failure stop you, it's quite possible that you will spend the rest of your life wondering what could have been.  Nearly everyone has said that if you're going to take a risk, the time to do it is when you are young and have relatively few responsibilities.  If you spend 4 years of your life pursuing what you think is your passion and find out it is not, you still have a solid education and time on your side most likely.

What none of us can figure out for you is your level of passion for this craft.  There's also 2 parts to that.  You may have a lot of passion to work with your hands and make things, but absolutely no passion to actually run a business.  If that's the case you would most likely fail if you tried to start your own business, but you might be very happy working for someone else.  These things are specific to you and none of us can tell you what you find interesting or exciting now, nor can we accurately predict whether or not you will feel the same way a handful of years from now.

Good luck whatever you choose.

[ThomasPowers]

"And it is also said 'Go not to the elves for counsel for they will say both no and yes'"

People can only make suggestions based on their own experiences and beliefs; I've mentioned my experiences; I do not claim that it would be the same for you or others.

The only comforting thing I can say is that if you are single and young you can still recover from a choice if it turns out not to be well suited for you.

I have changed careers several times now: Geologist, Telcom CIS, Radio Astronomy CIS   and now working for a major Computer Company---plus the year apprenticed to the swordmaker, working in a custom wood shop, working on the line in a factory.  Each one served to provide what I needed to live, support my family when I had one and each one was a learning experience.  At age 60(later this year) I don't regret any of them as they all led to me being who I am now.

Investigating further, like you plan, is a good idea; but do not let fear keep you from living.   Right now 4 years seems like a long time to invest; but as my Father told me when I was complaining that getting a CIS degree while working full time with a young family and a 100 year old house was going to take me 10 years he said "In ten years you will be ten years older, now do you want to be 10 years older *with* a CIS degree or not?"   So I got the CIS degree and shortly after that I was downsized and looking for another job---*with* a shiny new CIS degree and 10 years experience. Which made a major difference!

Don't burn any bridges with your current employer; but go learn more about yourself!

[Jarntagforge]

40 minutes ago, Buzzkill said:

"Starving artist"  and  "It's better to regret something you have done than something you haven't done."

Thanks for your reply, it's a good summary of the problem at hand. I will attend a blacksmith course in 3 weeks, visit the school this weekend, and then make up my mind. I could also quit school after a year if I find it's not my passion afterall. I feel like I should at least go for a year.

38 minutes ago, ThomasPowers said:

Don't burn any bridges with your current employer; but go learn more about yourself!

Good advice. Also it was interesting to read about your career changes. I should go to the school for a year at least. Maybe it'll be like your year at the sword smith. You found out you don't wanna be your own boss and that's that, back to work for someone and all is good. Or you would have found out you wanted to start up your own shop. Win-win!

[rockstar.esq]

Jackhammer, I'm trying to point out that you've put in at least four years of work to become an electrical engineer which is an achievement that thousands of people wish they had an opportunity to pursue.  I brought all that up to point out that you could use your achievement to unlock doors well beyond the office drudgery you're seeking to avoid.

Traveling engineering jobs offer rapid promotion, generous compensation, extensive time off, and education reimbursement.  Several engineer friends of mine have upwards of three months of paid time off per year.  

I think it's remarkable that you'd quickly walk away from something that you spent 15% or so of your life so far achieving simply because you took an office job rather than something more suitable to your interests. 

I think if you did a little looking around, you'd find that the majority of working blacksmiths both successful and poor, were educated in something much shorter and less formal than a four or five year degree program in Sweden.  In my limited experience, most blacksmiths offer classes that run a week or two at a time.  

The sooner you're making money doing what you love, the better right?  But if going to school is what you really love, then I think it's fair to say you won't like being a working professional, no matter what field you pursue.

[gote]

Most of the advice you have got thus far is very sound but some of it is based on the conditions in the US. Finland/Sweden is different but you can see that yourself.

My view on any new venture be it a large corporation starting a new venture or an individual changing his job is as follows:

WHY ME?                    Why am I better on this than the others?

 A business must have an advantage over the competition in order to be successful. It can be cheap money, control over raw materials, valid patents, idle machinery, you name it. It must be there otherwise the new venture is a waste of money. It must also be uniquely connected with you. An unmined market is open to the competition, Cheap labour also. Excellent marketing staff can be hired by anybody.

Also a person must have unique advantages; solid economical background, excellent education, an unused workshop, exceptional skills, exceptional talent, understanding of the market or/and etc etc.

If you go for it now, you will, after four years, have a good education, a lousy economy no workshop and no grasp of the market - but if you are aware of the risk and willing to take it, then it is OK. However, you will most probably have to take on electronic work in order to make ends meet.

There is also something that is very important for anybody who wants to be successful as an artist or artisan. That is PR, advertising, name and fame. Your success does not depend so much on your skills as on your perceived skills.

My last advice: Marry a high-earning woman.

[Jarntagforge]

20 hours ago, rockstar.esq said:

I think it's remarkable that you'd quickly walk away from something that you spent 15% or so of your life so far achieving simply because you took an office job rather than something more suitable to your interests.

I only picked electrical engineering because I, maybe childishly, thought it would be more vivid and 'magical', more actual machines moving around. Instead I'm looking at papers and computer screens. In my job I could ask to become a travelling engineer and do commissioning and testing. But that is looking into a cabinet in a substation in a forest somewhere. Not exactly inspiring or magical. Magical like you go happy to work! ...

20 hours ago, rockstar.esq said:

I think if you did a little looking around, you'd find that the majority of working blacksmiths both successful and poor, were educated in something much shorter and less formal than a four or five year degree program in Sweden.

There are no shortcuts to getting skilled. That majority of blacksmiths without a long education probably had long experience with related metal work or simply practiced lots and lots instead of going to school. But it's the same thing. Look at the Youtube video called: "Mastercrafts part 3 of 6". Three students get personal guidance for 3 months from a master blacksmith. In the end the make gates for paying customers. After all that time they still seem like beginners. I think they would need at least a full year of hands on guidance from a teacher to become somewhat skilled. Work x Time = Talent. One has to practice. A school is a good place for that. If only I wouldn't lose income attending it ....

7 hours ago, gote said:

Why am I better on this than the others?

There's no competition