Patrick Kerns Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 Hello! Just picked up two F150 axel shafts today at my local pick and pull. My question is how to best go about breaking them down into usable lengths. My current plan is to anneal the shaft near the plate at the end and then hacksaw it off, then anneal the rest of the shaft and cut lengths on an as-needed basis. Any advice would be helpful. I have minimal tools at this point but hope to be making a fair number of hardie tools/chisels/hammers out of the axel shaft. I've calculated it out and the price I paid works out to about 1$ per pound for the round stock of what is probably 4340. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSW Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 Zip wheel on a 4 1/2" grinder comes to mind. If you are going to do much metal work, a 4 1/2" grinder is almost a necessity. Just grind most of the way thru all the way around. Abrasive chop saw would be a 2nd thought if you have one, that or an OA torch. Other options, sawzall, portaband, abrasive wheel in a circular saw, push comes to shove metal blade in a jig saw.If you forge your hot cut 1st, you could then heat and hot cut the rest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Coke Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 Greetings Pat, Why don't you just cut off the flange than forge your hammers and cut off tools than cut them off.. Much easier than tongs. Forge on and make beautiful thingsJim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xaiver Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 We've got a place here called Northern Tool and Equipment. I don't know if they're a big place, or if they're around your parts... Anyhow, I went in there and got a 4" angle grinder for 20 bucks. 1/16th inch metal cutoff wheels are 1-2 dollars each. Probably my favorite tool so far. It's helped me quite a lot. I get my steel from the steel yard in town...it's a pain to try and hold a 10' (cut in half already to transport) piece of metal in the forge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WL smith Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 Just hack saw it! Everyone needs more muscle! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 Hack saw. It's not Hard, it's heat treated to be tough. A 12tpi blade will go through it in under 5 minutes with good technique.Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 Where do you find 12tpi hand hacsaw blades?! 18 is a fine as I find unless I go to mechanicals and they are hard to find. Not everyone makes up their own like TPHot set and hot cut hardy. Cutting off the flange requires a big fire and two peaple, one turns the axle wile holfing the hot set and the other swings the sledge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Kerns Posted August 30, 2015 Author Share Posted August 30, 2015 (edited) Thank you for all the advice!Frosty, when you say it's heat treated to be tough do you mean it was hardened and then had a lot of tempering done on it? Will let you guys know how the muscle building goes Also I have a sawzall for backup!Also, what do you guys do with the flanges - seems like they would have some usefulness as a base for something. Oh snap, I think I just figured out what I'm using for a tuyere grate. Edited August 30, 2015 by Patrick Kerns Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Kerns Posted August 31, 2015 Author Share Posted August 31, 2015 (edited) Took a crack at the axel with both a hacksaw and a metal cutting bladed sawzall - no love. Will probably take it with me to the guild meet and see if anyone is willing to help me hot cut off the flanges at one of the guild forges in exchange for me doing some striking for them, or for a chunk of axel! Edited August 31, 2015 by Patrick Kerns Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GottMitUns Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 If you have no hot cuts at all and a hack saw didn't work try and find someone with a AO torch. should take about 1 minute per cut at the longest. the AO cut will leave slag and burnt metal that needs to be ground away and that will take more time that the cutting.since you have found yourself in this position I think the first thing you need to make IS a hardie hot cut! look up the videos of Brian Brazil making them. I made one out of a axel and used it in Nicaragua along with a wood burning forge to cut up another axel to make a drift pin out of, and cut a lot of leaf spring with it. Russell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swedefiddle Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Good Morning,I was wondering how long it would take you to get away from the keyboard and actually try something. The splined end of the axles have been hardened, so as not to wear the splines with normal use. You must heat up the splined end and let it cool naturally to anneal it, then you can use your hacksaw. The axle just taught you a lesson!!I use a chop saw and it cuts better when the steel is hot.Use the axle to make some tools, you need more tools!! No excuse to say "I don't have a .............", you now have the material. Use the flange end to make a flatter, weld up the center of the end, cut the flange square as large as you can, punch a hole for a handle (you have the material to make all the tools necessary).Neil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 I got 12 tpi hack saw blades at the local hardware store, Sandvics as I recall. the rule of thumb is 3 teeth on the cut at all times and it's really HARD to find blades coarse enough to be efficient.The 3 tooth rule is of limited use for a hand saw we're just not physically strong enough to push say a 3tpi blade through 1" steel. The problem is folk think finer is better but it's just not true.Too fine is worse than too coarse, the cuttings can't be carried out of the cut and roll up between the teeth, bind gall and you're done. If it happens in your band saw or power hack saw you may not be able to get the blade out at all. If the blade is too coarse just turn the feed rate down to a crawl, you can hear when it's cutting right or hogging too hard. You gotta listen to what your tools tell you.The best I've found for my horizontal vertical band saw are 12-14 tpi variable blades. I still have the pack of 12 tpi hack saw blades I bought I don't know how long ago. I have a band saw so don't use my hand saw as much as I used to.Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crunch Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 (edited) I would think annealing/normalizing it would soften it up, though I'm certainly far from an expert.Portaband is an essential tool, IMHO. You'll probably be getting one eventually, anyway. Milwaukee is the way to go. I use mine constantly.Absent that, a 4-1/2" angle grinder with a cutoff wheel should go through it fairly fast, whether or not it's too hard for a hacksaw. Angle grinder's another essential tool, and you can get cheap ones at HFT for about $12 ... and they last a lot longer than 1/8 as long as one of the name brands that cost 8X as much (they even include replacement brushes!) Edited August 31, 2015 by Crunch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 Right next to the flange is a hardend serface for the barrings to ride on, its hard. The rest is faily soft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThorsHammer82 Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 If you didn't anneal it first, the bearing area as Charles said is going to be the hardest part to cut. Try about 1/2" away from that. May go much better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 And for Charle's reference: I take bandsaw blades and cut them into hacksaw blades and mount them into bow saws---a 30" hacksaw can be quite handy!Cur from the backside of the blade and let the hardened edge break off and I punch the holes in the softer area---I punch a bit closer than the wood saw blades have them so they tension a bit more when I install them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 Yes Master Powers, I was aware of your exelent workaround. But cant find 12tpi, even in power hacksaw blades. So was shoked to find Jerry had a stash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Everything Mac Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 And for Charle's reference: I take bandsaw blades and cut them into hacksaw blades and mount them into bow saws---a 30" hacksaw can be quite handy!Cur from the backside of the blade and let the hardened edge break off and I punch the holes in the softer area---I punch a bit closer than the wood saw blades have them so they tension a bit more when I install them.^^mind blown. Nice one TP. With regards to the axle surely 5 minutes and a metal cutting disc on an angle grinder would be the way to go? But as has been said you'd be better off leaving it long to handle it while forging. Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manolito Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 forbidden could make a guy say bad things Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacob Nothstine Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 I take bandsaw blades and cut them into hacksaw blades and mount them into bow saws---a 30" hacksaw can be quite handy!I made one of these bow hack saws they work great, I keep it in the car just in case, also carry the saw blade for wood with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptree Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 test The axle is 1045H. I worked in the shop that made those for 3 years.The axle is uniformly hardened into a case and core hardness from the splines down to the flange. I cut them with a bimetal bandsaw all the time. The case stars at the surface and declines as you reach the center.If heat treating do not hold longer than to get a uniform heat and quench in oil. Temper within 45 minutes, as quench cracking can occur if not tempered before 45 minutes. A water quench is a crack nightmare. This steel makes good hammers and hot cuts.If an axle is 1 3/8" diameter in the unforged shaft it is 1045H and if bigger say from a dump truck or semi than 1541H. Big rubber tire loader with say 3" shafts are usually 4140.The splines and bearing area are the same hardness as the shaft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 That is a wonderful bit of info, ptree. Now to find one of those 3" shafts... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaughnT Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 Ptree comes through in a big way! Big axles are hard to come by around here, but standard truck axles are a dime a dozen..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WL smith Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 Just cut it with the info you have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptree Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 Here is a couple of photo's of the BFH team's trvel anvil, a 252# Axle forging. This is an as forged, not machined 4140 axle shaft. The flange was undersize and so scrapped. My big striking anvil looks much the same but is 454# and is taller so the flange is burried some to bring the top down to the right height. Our team has forged 9 of these big split crosses from 3" square, a couple of carved wizards from 3" square and recently a boat anchor from 2" round bar. This axle shaft anvil rings loudly. The top although not heat treated has not mushroomed under the steady assault of as many as 4 strikers, although errant blows have dented it occasionally. We have traveld to Pontiac Ill. , Tipton Indiana and Cannelton Indiana as well as Jeffersonville indiana twice to demonstrate with this anvil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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