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Peddinghaus, the drop forged steel anvil


TechnicusJoe

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I don't want to say who the dealers were because first of all there aren't that many and I probably will have to purchase something from one or both of them sometime in the future simply because they are the only ones who have what I need and I also believe everyone deserves the benefit of a doubt. Second thing is I just wanted to let people know that you should check what you buy if you can. If you agree with this guy http://www.beautifuliron.com/gs_anvils.htm about how an anvil's surface should be flat then you should make it clear to the person you purchase it from what you want and ask about it. 

They must have some kind of floating grinding machine. I think when they quench it during heat treatment it draws more at the heal because it's thinner, like a katana. I wish I knew more about induction heat treatment.

My daughter and her husband were living in my shop for a while and painted the walls different colors. She has a colorful personality :) I bought the bellows from a guy at a blacksmith's gathering. Got it for $50. I'm trying to set shop up to work with or without electricity. The guy I bought it from said it worked. I have a Centaur PB50 blower I will be using with the coal forge I'm building. My old one rusted out (ten years of rain leaking down the flu) I think bellows will work just as good as hand crank it just takes up more room and more muscle.  I would like to throw in a plug for Centaur Forge. They stand behind their product and I trust them.

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I would assume it is due to the induction hardening.  Face was likely ground perfectly flat before hardening, then induction hardened, then very little clean up.  But just like a katana is forged straight and takes a curve from the edge hardening, so will the thinner section of the square horn...  If the whole heel had hardened it might have stayed straight, being in tension all the way through, but since it was just the top surface which took up more volume being martensitic... The Refflinghaus might be flatter, and the older Peddinghaus's, because the whole anvil was/is heat treated not just the face.  It is probably within the "new" tolerances for the modern process, which isn't quite as nice as the old way, but there was more decarb, and more grinding to finish. With the induction I am betting that 90% plus of the grinding is done in a normalized state, and there is minimal clean up after hardening, much cheaper, and no decarb...

 

If you know about the dip, you can compensate in the shop, make a little hat for the square horn to shim it to level over the whole length of the anvil, and with the gap it will be easier to straighten the hot bar....  It is a little disappointing but understandable.  BUT hey they still have awesome rebound, and are very lively to forge on.

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The one I have now is flat between the hardie and pritchel holes and that's all I care about. A friend gave me a 2' x 3' x 1" steel plate table I can use for straightening etc. I don't know how Ridgid does it but I think they're cutting every corner they can. Mr. Peddinghaus must be spinning like a top.

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Taken from one of the sites mentioned earlier that sells these anvils: "The top face is ground and induction hardened to 58 rockwell and provide a lively surface to work on.  Peddinghaus anvils are flat from front to back.  Center to tip of horns drop slightly.   Flat and Round horns may be lower than center face."   

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Some of the responses I find quite humorous to read.

Anyway. If anyone receives anything don't you check if it's up to specs?
In the case you think it isn't, what do you do? You call the factory or dealer and get it sorted out.
If you do this, job well done.

If anything you just bought isn't what you expected of it, contact the seller, get your money back.
Job well done.
But if you alter things and there are no real factory issues to be found, it's your lost money and problem.
Should've looked at that before doing anything, everyone's own responsibility.


Anyone can always find anything to moan about, it's very easy. Present me or anyone something anyone made and the drawings
and a whole bookwork can be written about things to moan about.

If anyone has got anything to moan, why not document this well and send it to the seller/factory for improvement.
If you have, thank you and job well done.
That's a lot more useful for future buyers than moaning here.
Because whether it's Refflinghaus, Peddinghaus, Kohlswa, Vaughns, Rathole forge, Rhino, Fisher, Vulcan, Peter Wright etc.
There's always a group who hates them and always a group who swears by them.

The haters are especially a value group, because they tend to look for all bad things in a product.
This is very valuble information! This is the info. of where to improve! As well as provides all pros and cons of a product!
Maybe the people who started to dislike me, starting in this thread, start to understand what I am doing here and why :)

Take a look in the other reviews on IFI and what other anvil review is as divers as this one!?

Even though all bad things that can be said about Peddinghaus, they're still bought and owned by very MANY happy owners.

For example, there are enough things I could moan about with my Refflinghaus anvil.
But I must never forget how they're made, still by humans, Peddinghaus too.
And that I can't do it better for a cheaper price, same for Peddinghaus.
If anyone can make a forged steel anvil better than Peddinghaus, why don't you?
Especially if you can make them so much cheaper.

I too musn't forget the GOOD things either!
And I talk about this with Refflinghaus. :) If you don't believe me, I'd suggest you give them a call
or email them and ask for my name.


Does my way of going about, start to make sense?

I don't intend to make anyone's blood boil, and if I did, I give my appologies.
But it did result in true and unsalted reviews, which are priceless!

Because look around, many reviews are heavily sweetened!

Happy hammering!

Cheers,

Joe

 

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Here's something I haven't seen many do: a ball bearing test on their own anvil.
In this video I compare the rebound of a 44lbs Peddinghaus (Original PFP 1903 - 1930) and a 277lbs Peddinghaus (Original PFP same period).

 



I need to get in touch with someone who'd allow me to scrutinize his or her new 275lbs Ridgid Peddinghaus and compare that with the older models I have.
If I can, I will record that too and post the results.

Also, somewhere back in the thread I got asked for pictures of the horn drop. This seems to be very common. I don't think I've ever seen a Peddinghaus with no horn drop.
It's just a thing that comes from heat treatment.
The 277lbs has something like 3mm + in horn drop or so. The 303lbs has something like just under 5mm. I'd have to measure again to be sure and take pictures.

Has it bothered me? Not that I am aware of. My Refflinghauses have the same horn drop, again from heat treatment.
If anyone thinks they can't work with horns that have a slight bend in them (I'd be more interested in you trying to add more drop into it with forging)
I will advise you to never buy a Peddinghaus, nor a Refflinghaus.
I haven't seen a double bick Kohlswa, DLC, UAT.

It's funny though that most have a London pattern of any brand with the horn pointed up. But no one complains about this :P
I know the purpose for the pointed up horn is to make the horn last longer, because they are usually made of soft wrought iron,
Without any steel facing over it. Exceptions excist. But most are just soft wrought iron.
Though the point still is "it's not straight or inline with the face"

I'm not sure about the Czech cast anvils what they do with them. They're only 44HRc, so I could see them mill that flat still.
If anyone has pictures of his or her double bick anvil that is perfectly flat with a straight rule over it, put it on here and share it.

 
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The picture isn't very clear, but I can sure tell it's flat. Thank you for adding the picture.

Now this is a Rathole forge anvil, made of H13, an air hardening steel. My assumption would be that he leaves them as the castings were and then just had the face milled flat.
You could nitride it, but I would very much doubt he'd do that.
He says they're a minimum of 52HRc, shooting for 55HRc. Have you tested your anvil see how hard it is?
Again my assumption is he has it milled after casting and then leaves it as it is. Yes, that's how you can get a flat face, with bicks, somewhat hard.
52HRc not being that hard.

Peddinghaus, Refflinghaus, Kohlswa, UAT, DLC, just to name a few brands, are not made of air hardening steel.
These are made of forged or cast steel that require heat treatment after they're cleaned up.
It's just a natural thing the steel does when heat treated in that state.

Even if you could mill it flat, think of what you're doing. The hard face is a few mm deep on these anvils, and doesn't extend down all the way to the feet.
So after heat treatment. You can consider milling it flat again, but that gives 2 problems.
With a 58HRc (Peddinghaus) or +- 59HRc (Refflinghaus) you will ruin your bits to mill that.
And if you do succeed after at milling that that super annoying hard face, there will be a good portion of the hard face gone.
Thus you're almost back at having a soft face again.

You could send Peddinghaus (and Refflinghaus) an email asking why they don't use air hardening steels. Or the other anvil manufacturers.
I'll send them one as well.


 

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I've been using my #12 Peddinghaus for the last year and imo it's absolutely great. The rebound is phenomenal, and mine has a straight hardy hole. It doesn't have the large radius edges on the face, but rather they are nice and square. I haven't laid a straight edge from stem to stern but if the tail drops any it's not much and I've found no negatives from it. You don't have to worry about denting the face from an errant hammer blow either, it's very hard.

The only negative I've found with this pattern is the pritchel is above the foot of the base vs a London pattern having it extended further out to allow long stock to be passed all the way to the floor if needed. But that is a minor nitpick and still an easy workaround. The positives more than make up for that.

All in all I think it is a great anvil, and I highly recommend it.

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I've received a response from Refflinghaus.

They have researched and tested alloys to find one that is suitable for an anvil.
52HRc is considered to be soft. Of course it's harder than mild steel. But it's not regarded as hard.
Refflinghaus produces an anvil with a 59HRc face. If I remember correctly, Mike's (Yesteryear forge) 1245lbs Reffinghaus anvil
has a hardness of 64HRc.

From Peddinghaus I have yet to receive a response.

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  • 2 months later...

Partially squared hardy hole on the Peddinghaus anvils: solved

 

I have gotten a few copies of the old Peddinghaus catalogs; anvils, vises, pipe clamps and more. 

In one of the catalogs, it is mentioned that the models 2 and 5 (20kg and 35kg) will only have the 
hardy holes hot drifted square after drilling, the customer wants this and pays extra. 
Models 7 to 12 (models to 50kg - 110lbs to 125kg - 275lbs) come with a square drifted hole. 

The exception to this were the earliest PFP (before Orginial PFP).
All models were only drifted square if requested and paid. 

This is why some Peddinghaus anvils in the 180lbs range, or heavier, with only a PFP (NOT Original PFP) stamp
have a round hardy hole and the top lightly pushed square. ​


So, if anyone gets a second hand Peddinghaus with a hardy hole that hasn't been drifted
square, it's because the first owner bought it like this. 

Today, Ridgid Peddinghaus only produces model number 5, 9 and 12 (35kg - 75kg - 125kg).
If the 35kg anvil still has to be requested with a square hole, you have to ask your Ridgid tool dealer.

 

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