How can we learn to forge?

[Rich Hale]

Speaking with Glenn last night I was amazed at how many new folks we have on here. Everyday there are more. A lot of them are already forgeing metal and have quite a bit of experience. i for one will learn a lot from them. There are also those that have a more limited level of skill. There are also another group that have yet to light their first forgeing fire. This note is mostly for them. When I found this place I was forgeing daily and unfortuneatly by myself I picked up quite a few tips from another site and that gave me some really good tips on what I need to work at.
My work improved a lot faster than when I had only a few basic books to reference. The projects they showed I did. I did them until they really became easy for me. I made several of the tools they showed. They helped me do things in a more controlled manner. Then This opened up and the Blueprints started.
Each week almost without fail you can find me sitting at this desk and watching as one or more smiths gives up information they have acquired that will help others. In a few days or so that information is added to the list of blueprints on file. You can find that information on the opening page under blueprints. You can search the subject. or the name of the person that did the article for us to use. AT whatever level of skill you have. From how do I build a forge for little money? to items that require a l
higher skill level. And all in between.
If you are are just lost for an idea on what to forge next, take a look at the list. If you need tongs to get started there are plans for the easiest ones I have ever seen. Items like S hooks are a real popular item and most folks can make them even without help. However the Bp for s hooks will make it a bit easier. One of the big things to know when forgeing is what to do to a piece of metal and how to do that as soon as the metal is the correct heat. What is the first thing you do when you grab it with tongs and bring it to the anvil? where and how and what do you use to hit it and what part of the anvil do you use?
If you work through the Bps you will get that sooner than any way I know except for individual one on one instruction by a smith that is a good teacher. There is a strong urge to jump ahead of these basics and get right into the advanced things. That leads to faliures, get the ground work in and then prgress as you can.
REmember when you are making mistakes and not making progress you will only become good at making mistakes.it takes literally hours each day or what ever you can make time for to get the basics down, that is the best investment you can make in becoming a smith. Enjoy,,,,if it was easy anyone could do it.

[J W Bennett]

Well said Rich. A person new to the craft should be willing to invest the time to read what is available both in the library and on the net and check out the local resources available to them. Simply shot gunning question after question on this forum flustrates both the person asking the questions and the people kind enough to try to answer the questions. A person who is genuinely interested in the craft should invest some time in the basics or they are facing a hard and dangerous road.
I guess what I am trying to get at is a person new to the forum and the craft should take the time to read what has already been wrote here in many places before asking questions. A little effort on their part is not to much to ask.

John

[irnsrgn]

With 55 years more or less working at the smithing trade. Starting with my apprenticeship at a very young age in my fathers shop. I still learn things from watching the Tuesday Night Blueprints. You are never to old to learn. I did serve an apprenticeship and learned the basics to start with, once you learn the basics, you can apply yourself to almost any job and succeed.

[Finnr]

I got started with a hunk of RR iron a hammer and a will to learn. Before I laid the first steel in the forge I read anything and everything I could get my hands on. I picked the brains of those who had been in the craft for years. Then I did the same dull boring exercises over and over until I could do what I thought to be a decent job. Then on to the next set of exercises. Basics will carry you through !!! Pipe dreams will just let you down.
Finnr

[GVR-4579]

When I started my dad gave me some metal and said make it hot and hit it, now that i want to improve my skills and make stuff that looks like something or is functional i have been sticking my nose in books and everything. I agree if you want to smith do you research so you dont ask all sorts of wuestions that could be answered from reading 10 pages from a book. I am however happy to answer questions regardless, perhaps some people just dont have acess to the books or dont understand the way they are worded.

[Dutchmancreek]

I agree guys... it seems that everyone wants to move to advanced work without ever doing research, or ever practicing the the basic skills. When I'm at the open forge meetings or at demos the younger folks are bored by watching S-hooks, wall hooks, etc being demonstrated. They always ask how they can make a sword or knives, or even how they can get started making pattern welded steel.

Library books, Amazon books, the internet, ...all good
ABANA, local chapter meetings....great
Practice, practice, practice the basics and move up as you learn. There's no other way.

Steve

[Glenn]

There is no substitute for hammer time on the anvil.

I will not ask for a show of hands, but I would imagine that the "old dogs" still make a practice piece and then use it for reference in order to make the *first* production piece of a new project. Why would they do that after all their years of experience in blacksmithing? They are still learning through practice.

[julian]

You generally won't mess up smithing too bad if you are safe and don't overwork. Great work is produced with somewhat little effort, because you're letting your skill and practice do the work for you. My forging experience has been entirely trial and error with the internet as a reference source, it's a lot of fun to figure out how to make stuff .

[Donnie]

When I hear "How can I make a sword?" from someone who has never lit a fire, I doubt they are interested in smithing. I have never made a sword or pattern welded steel. I do admire those who do it well. I do understand and appreciate the level of skill and amount of time to produce such beautiful work. I myself can spend all day forging the basics, s-hooks, wall hooks, fire tools. When I am at my anvil the rest of the world does not exist. There is just me, my fire, my hammer, my anvil. All is well with the world.

[skunkriv]

I started like many with a book in one hand and a hammer in the other, charcoal briquettes etc etc. That was 20+ yrs ago. What I remember now is how much you can learn in one day (or one heat) watching and talking with somebody who knows what they are doing. I would advise any new folks (who range in age from 12-65, another great thing about this craft) to get out to a local hammer in and play in the fire with the great people you will meet. You will never quit learning.

[Ferrous Beuler]

Keep it simple, to quote Ted Throckmorton- "The mother of skill is repetition, The mother of skill is repetition"...:)Dan
BTW, Thanks Ted-

[keykeeper]

Well put, Rich. I agree completely. Also what everyone else said.

That said, I'll re-iterate some already mentioned topics.

First and foremost, research, research, research. There are more books available on topic than one has time to read. I read everything my local library had to offer, then used the Inter Library Loan system to get more. I even have bought some of the books I read for reference. Check out this site and other sites on the WORLD WIDE WEB. It's there for the taking, if you want it.

Second, get to somewhere that metal is being forged. The demonstrators always have something to add to your trick-bag of forging knowledge. The "Veterans" outside the demo are a veritable encyclopedia of forging knowledge. MUCH can be learned just hanging out with them and Listening.

Finally, practice the craft. If it's only s-hooks, fire pokers, and dinner gongs, so be it, because you are still forging something, and learning the basics needed to succeed. If you just heat up some metal and move it around, you are forging. A lot can be learned just seeing how the hammer moves the iron under heat.

I have been a member on this site for about one and one half year now. I have been playing in the fire for about a year. Am I forging? You bet. Have I made a dagger, bowie knife or sword yet? Fancy furniture, medieval armor, or power hammer? Heck no, but I am still forging and having one heckuva good time doing it and enjoying every new friend I make here. I am a blacksmith, no matter what my skill level. You gotta start somewhere, fellas!

YEAH, I CAN LIVE WITH THAT!

[the_sandy_creek_forge]

Great work is produced with somewhat little effort, because you're letting your skill and practice do the work for you.

How could you say such a thing Julian?!?! Great work is an arduous and tiring toil worthy of at least $75 per hour. And then of course the skill and practice is worth an additional $25 dollars per hour Now if I could just find clients that would believe that......

But, yes to all that's been said above (especially the wannamakasword kids). I was lucky to start out with a riveters forge, an honest-to-goodness anvil (the London pattern type, not the almost as good block of steel honest-to-goodness type), a few assorted tools, a LARGE "resource center" and Weygers "The Complete Modern Blacksmith." While not the BEST beginners blacksmith book out there, it at least took me from a crawl to a somewhat bumbling stumble. Lacking these basic resources, I probably would have gotten creative and made something work sooner or later. If you can't be creative enough to get yourself started, this whole thing is gonna be more of a chore than a hobby.

I've also read every blacksmith book that I could get my grubby hands on, printed out the pdfs for some I couldn't get my hands on (and believe you me, I got my worth outta that "technology fee" while I was in college!), and tried to keep up with all that's happening here and across the street (although with the influx of posts as of late it's getting harder to keep up!).

I do understand though that there's some questions that just really need to be put in layman's terms to be understood. Asking for a complete treatise on how to make a sword in five easy steps is NOT such a question. Each of us has our specialties. If someone were to ask me what would be minimum of defining elements (in my opinion) for something to be considered art deco, I would gladly share what knowledge I have (hey, those art history classes are gonna have to come in handy sooner or later). If I can't decipher what all those numbers mean on the MSDS for some kind of surface prep etching chemical, I am gonna try to find an answer, then come here, or there, or somewhere and ask someone who can give me a straightforward answer so I know I'm not gonna blow myself up.

However, asking why the ends of your tapers are splitting (while it is a quick and easy answer) has been asked everywhere at least once; multiple times at most places. A little bit of research would save everyone else typing the same thing they've probably typed before. BUT... I shouldn't really speak as I've asked my fair share of dumb questions before (just don't let my wife know I admitted to that!).

-Aaron @ the SCF
(just wanted to throw in another set of parenthesis, since I didn't quite meet my quota in the above message).... ( )

[RainsFire]

ugh.. I have the strangest feeling this was partly inspired by one of my threads
you're definatly right though!!

[KevinD]

This thread reminds me of a joke.

The teacher asks the student "If there was a place to get ALL the answers on any test, would you use it?"

The student replies "the internet? cheat sheet? cliffs notes?"

"No" the teacher replies. "The text book."

[MRobb]

Hey everyone. I am a newcomer to this rewarding obsession called blacksmithing. I have been working at this for probably less than a year. In fact, I just joined this site a couple of days ago. I am still getting used to navigating the site & reading all the usefull information. My thanks to all the experienced & knowledgeable people out there who are willing to help out.

[yesteryearforge]

Rich i like your closing line ( i think ive heard that somewhere before )
As i see it SKILL is being proficient at the BASICS , when you have become good at the basics of drawing out ,tapering ,upsetting and such a masterpiece can be broken down to the lowest common demonator of the BASICS.
I too tire of all of the hocus-pocus , magical , thoeretical approaches to this craft.
You are exactly right when you said that going too far ahead of the basics just encourages mistakes and if you are not careful you will only be good at making mistakes.
One should never ever try to think outside of the box untill one has mastered whats inside the box.
This holds true no matter what the craft or trade.
Mike Tanner

[Rich Hale]

Rainsfire you are correct, this post is about you; It is also about everyone new to the craft since this site came on lline. I think It should have been posted years ago but then I did not do it then. Since the start of this site I have watched folks come and go, I have seen success and failure. The work some of the folks are doiong now is simply amazing considering not long ago the lit their first fire. A scan of the gallery will show this. I am sure enough proud of what they have done.
But my real pain comes from those that lost interest in the craft. Perhaps with some it was due to life getting inthe way of a hobby, others may have left to lack of abilities or space etc. The big one for me is those that lost interest from failures that may have been a result of going to far too fast. When someone makes too big a leap into the craft it is a design for disaster.. That prompted the post. And I felt that I needed to do whatever I could to help provide at least a direction for those folks that would learn in a more traditional way.
I have been guilty of poking a bit of fun in the chat room along with others. We have had a lot of new folks that want to make a sword as their very first project. As you join us in the future you will see more of them come and go. It is one of life's frustrations that failure leads to poor thoughts about the future of what we are attempting to accomplish. I any one of us on this site can steer some one to success instead. we make this valuable site even more so. What Glenn has done is provide us with a vehicle and resource.
The rest of us may wish to see what we can do to make this a premier site for all that enter. And that includes all the site. Not just the chat room. I believe that thought lives in the blueprint area. There is simply enough information there that a person could print them out and put them in a folder and hit the shop on a regular basis, skills would develop in a progressive manner that would help shortcut the new person failure blues.
The gallery gives us goals. There are photos of basic work to museum quality pieces.
The forums provede an area that you can at times get almost instant answers to a question. Then there is the chat room: It has become a social gathering point for a lot of folks. WE have our personal discussions and a lot of good conversations. However it seems to me that each evening at some pooint in time there is one or more lengthy discussions on metal working and how to get better at it.
That brings me back to why this was posted. It seems to me that when there are new folks in the room and we have those discussions the new folks leave.
On Tuesday evenings there are live blueprints that you can llink from theis site. Some one or more than one person presents directions via text and pictures that give us ways to complete something smithing related that may have somevalue in our own work.
There seems to be very few of the new folks sit in on these sessions. They take almost and even hour and it is a worthwhile event. If you new folks will join us you will see a lot of folks in there that are well versed in the craft and are always on the look out for more information they can use. For some it just reaffirms that what they do in their shop is state of the craft work.
So, Rainsfire this is about you, then it is not about you, it is about anyone that would like to learn in ways that have worked and will continue to work for years to come. It is about those folks that if left alone would fail and fail again as someone did not step up and show a better approach. This site is at best a second choice to learning. The first is to spend time with a capeable instructor for as long as it takes to get to what level you seek. An instructor will taylor you work to your abilities and take you at the pace you need with suggestions as to posture ,body mechanics and tool handling that this site simply cannot provide. An in between approach is to attend as many hammer-ins and clinics as you can. Most groups have at least aan event each year that has demos that youu may be able to attend . And do not forget that Farriers do the same. They often bring in some of the best shoers that are wizards at metal work. This is the best place you can find to learn at home if that is how you do it. See ya

[Mike Turner]

Rich very well put, I for one have tried to help some of the new guys that are making basic mistakes, that if they started with the basics and perfected the basic skills they would have never made those frustrating mistakes. Not that I don't mind helping I personally find it frustrating when you give advice and it goes in one ear and out the other and this makes me want to stop helping just because I feel I am wasting my valuable time trying to teach someone something that they have no real interest in learning the fundamentals of the trade they just want to jump to the end and be a master without ever being an apprentice. I am really glad this thread was started and wish it could be a sticky thread so all the new guys can read and be humbled. Maybe we could get more interest in the Tuesday night blueprints by posting a schedule of what will be covered the coming Tuesday BP. I know many times I have stopped in and had no interest at what was the BP for the night and missed others I wish I could have caught and if I knew it was on the schedule I may have found a computer just to sit in.

I do strongly agree with all the that has been said by our senior members.

I am farrier and I apprenticed for 2 years after I went to a 8 week course, I am not a blacksmith as the majority here are but I am very capable forging anything. Most of the best smiths I have ever meet are or have been farriers. I have spent a good deal of my years as a farrier perfecting my skills and my craft and now that I want to do more smithing I myself have gone back to basics so that I may perfect the skills and craft I wish to pursue now.

Again thank you Rich for starting this wonderful eye and mind opening thread.

[Dodge]

Thanks for this post Rich. Lots of good responses! This may be the wrong place for my input, but its something thats been bugging me from the start. And I know the subject of "I-wanna-make-a-sword-for-my-first-project" has just about been beat to death, but the thing that bothers me is the names. Guys not only want to make a sword, but it has to be a jen-u-wine kantnga or a wasitchi or a kawasaki or whatever they're called. Unless yer Japanese, I don't see how you can make a Japanese blade. You might be able to make a copy of one and perhaps a very good copy, but it won't be a Japanese sword until you go to Japan and train under the masters and perhaps even become Japanese. A rose is a rose is a rose...... Just my humbled opinion :)

[ThomasPowers]

I will help someone make a sword as their first project only if it will be their only project. If they actually want to learn the hows and whys of swordmaking rather than "now do this" then they need to start at the beginning and learn the basics.

People complain and ask WHY? the reason is it's wasting *my* time for them to be messing up blade after blade because they have no hammer control, can't control the heat, don't have the concentration, etc. Why they expect to be able to master a craft from watching a few tv shows and looking at a couple or pages on the web I don't understand.

[nonjic]

I wonder if this site might benefit from a 'Newbies' section - a few other forums (non B.S) have them, along the lines of introduce yourself, 'read this first before posting', and a 10 or 20 point F.A.Q's ?

I find the youtube videos quite beneficial to learing, perhaps an easy to find links page to beginners stuff (like the short clips Ian did?)

John (desperatly seeking borax in his lunch half hour tomorrow) N

[Ruinite]

I don't know if i can post this here or what. But i am starting to become desperate for information lol.

Well I have always been interested in swords, blades, armor and subjects of that matter but i have been wanting to actually get into it, so for the past few weeks i have been looking at information on how to start this up. I really want to start, but i have so many questions and i don't know where to go to get them answered. I've been reading books and reading internet post for what seems forever. I am currently reading "The Art of Blacksmithing" by Alex W. Bealer, since my school enjoys having almost no books on the topic.
I feel as if i have entered this and have learned nothing but a billion more questions. I would like a local blacksmith or anything to show me the basics, as so avoid burning myself alive or something. I know next to nothing except a few unwanted things at my skill level. I only know things like almost everything about Damascus (which i know i'll never be skilled enough to attempt, but it still stole my interest) A little about a few metals, because i wanted to buy a battle ready sword, and then some things i learned in movies or on these forums which haven't helped me much in my questions, sicne i'm still a very low lvl skill person on this topic.
I could use any kind of information, tips, anything. Like how to locate a local Blacksmith, a good and cheap forge design (i've seen some that i liked but after reading some threads it seems not proficient enough) how to even heat it correctly and things of that nature. Really any help would be so appreicated. I'm willing to learn and read more and such, but it really interest me and i'd like to give it a shot.

[keykeeper]

Ruinite,

Have you read this whole post? This is what we are talking about. You can't start at the top and work backwards. We are here to help, to the best of our individual abilities and skill levels. Sure, I myself could probably teach you a few things, but I am not a master blacksmith, don't know if I ever will be. But that's how it is, learn all the basics, then move on to harder projects as skills permit. It's a cruel world, but that is how it is.

That said, I see you are from WV. Some of us here are also from WV. Give us your location, maybe we know someone close to consult.
Have you checked into classes at Cedar Lakes? Have you checked out the Appalachian Blacksmith Association website? Have you read every single blueprint on this site? Other sites for info? Try a google search on the words blacksmith association then check each site result for the projects and links pages there. You won't even have time to smith if you try to read all that is available where I've mentioned.

All these are ways to further your knowledge of the craft.

Maybe I'll see you at the ABA Spring Conference or a hammer-in. Hope so, it seems you have the enthusiasm to succeed in this craft.

[ThomasPowers]

Appalachian Blacksmiths Association is the WV ABANA chapter; though not knowing where your are at I can't say if any of the *6* in Va or the ones in PA, OH, etc are closer to you

Blacksmithing Organization Web Sites : Blacksmith Locator has a list of chapters.

I'm impressed that you know almost everything about Damascus; I've been making the stuff (patternwelded) since 1984 and still don't know everything about it and then there is wootz which is a whole nother kettle of fish!

Note: WV was the only state listed as having less water area in it than NM; though NM is a tad larger---my county is about 100 miles on a side!