Crazy Ivan Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 Yesterday after work my neighbor came over asking me to cut out some dents on his truck and weld in new sheet metal. I did all my layout, cut out the dented/crumpled area and fabbed up a replacement. Tacked it up and welded it with my 110 lincoln running flux cored .030 wire. The job went fine and afterwards I was compensated with Burgers and brews at the bar down the street. As of last night it seemed to have been a good after-work job...until this morning when I woke up for work and couldn't open my eyes. I was using the same shield I use at work all day long and have never had a problem with getting flashed through a shield. I use a Miller Elite auto-darkening shield and it has always been fine but maybe it had something to do with welding thin GA sheet instead of my usual 1/4"- 1"? I had the shade set at 10 and the sensitivity up to 6 (darkens when you look at a lightbulb). Maybe its time to change the sensors. It has a solar cell, not batteries and charges while welding. Anyone else ever had this type of problem? -A blind and uncomfortable Crazy Ivan This post brought to you by novacain cream and very dark sunglasses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan C Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 The only time I had a problem was after using a carbon arc torch, those things are ridiculously bright! Apparently no matter how fast the auto-darkening works you still get flashed for a miniscule amount. If you're welding thin material maybe you were starting and stopping more often? I have a flip type helmet for whenever I use that torch now. I thought the auto darkening helmets needed to charge in sunlight though? Did you notice anything different yesterday when you were welding? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Ivan Posted May 7, 2014 Author Share Posted May 7, 2014 I use a #12 shade for carbon arc and I know some people use #13 depending on the application Very bright stuff there! Yes, since it was 20 GA sheet I tacked up about every 3 inches around the new panel then welded one inch or so at a time skipping around to prevent it from warping. It may very well have been the multiple starting/ stopping that caused this. As to the sunlight charging, that is nothing I have heard personally. I think they charge while you weld from the arc. Either way It would darken just fine while welding and nothing seemed abnormal to me (I have been welding 11 years now). I used the same shield for 3 years and all day yesterday at work and there was no problems I noticed. -Crazy Ivan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 Have you contacted Miller? What did they say or suggst? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianinsa Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 I have noticed that when used outdoors one is more inclined to get the dreaded "arc-eyes" I think it may have to do with the fact that the ambient light level is greater and thus the "switch" takes a nanosecond(too much) time to respond. I have found aspirin/disprin helps why I'm not sure but it seems better than the stronger stuff. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 Do you have the serial number of the shield? Make, model, etc and any other information about the shield would also be helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Ivan Posted May 7, 2014 Author Share Posted May 7, 2014 I have noticed that when used outdoors one is more inclined to get the dreaded "arc-eyes" I think it may have to do with the fact that the ambient light level is greater and thus the "switch" takes a nanosecond(too much) time to respond. I have found aspirin/disprin helps why I'm not sure but it seems better than the stronger stuff. Ian I was outside while working on the car, so that may have contributed as well. Do you have the serial number of the shield? Make, model, etc and any other information about the shield would also be helpful. Yes, the Make: Miller, Model: Digital Elite. The part numbers I have here are Titanium 9400i, others for ordering new lenses, grinding sheilds etc. The battery is listed as part number: 217043 battery CR2450 (2). I don't quite feel up to calling miller right now but i may send them an email later when my discomfort is down a bit more. This Feels like just the 1 day type of arc eyes here so hopefully I am good to go back to work tomorrow (using another shield until I can be positive of the culprit for this.) -Crazy Ivan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Budd Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 i use an auto darkening helemt too and I've found that the flash is worse when the sun comes out. I reckon that its got something to do with the ambient light levels too. I've mostly got around it by turning the shading up on the helmet when its bright in the workshop (I have skylights and only work during the day). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 Using auto darkening shields in sunlight can cause a couple milliseconds delay. I've also noticed when running smaw "rod" as opposed to gmaw, smoke gets the cell dirty and you need to clean it now and then or it looses sensitivity. I have mine turned almost too sensitive, a reflected flash from the overhead light can trip it but I'd rather have it dark too often than late to the party. One more thing about welding even a little out of position with a wire feed. It's pretty easy to have the gun positioned so I can see clearly but the cup is blocking the arc from the cell eye making for a hesitation activating the shield. I hate flash burns, waking up with hot sand in my eyes and gummed closed is really . . . un-good. I don't know if it really helped but I flushed my eyes with "clear eyes" the drops for red eye. Since the accident and shingles my left eye is pretty dry but regular eye drops leave too much residue so I use saline and it works a treat. I'm with you Brother, it'll go away. Frosty The Lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzonoqua Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 It is possible to be getting 'flash from behind' if your helmet, as in the reflected light from the sides or underneath your helmet as well, especially if you are welding in a workshop with white walls or around light reflective surfaces. Ensure your helmet is fitting properly and that no light can be reflected to the inside of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Ivan Posted May 7, 2014 Author Share Posted May 7, 2014 I have been using home made saline and flushing my eyes when I can open them enough and it does help but the real helper IMO is the novacaine gel. It does not help with the light sensitivity but the "sandpaper" becomes a much finer grit after applying LOL. its sounding like the culprit was most likely the sunlight delaying the reaction time of the sensors mixed with the constant start/stop welds I was doing. I know the sensors were not dirty because I replace everything on my shield every couple days (the company buys us new parts by bulk). I'm thinking its time to upgrade to a 3M speedglas with the air filter and hood anyways because I weld Stainless steel half the time at work and as we all know, that hexevalent chromium is no good. Plus my current shield is a tad too heavy and was just partially responsible for blinding me and making me lose a days pay...3 strikes and you're out! Now to convince the boss to buy me a $1,000+ dollar shield.... -Crazy Ivan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsoldat Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 A thought might be to inspect your lenses for any cracks. The mechanic I work with flashed himself pretty good with his auto darkening helmet. He tracked it down to a hairline crack in a lens reflecting. changed it out and everything has been good since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Ivan Posted May 7, 2014 Author Share Posted May 7, 2014 It is possible to be getting 'flash from behind' if your helmet, as in the reflected light from the sides or underneath your helmet as well, especially if you are welding in a workshop with white walls or around light reflective surfaces. Ensure your helmet is fitting properly and that no light can be reflected to the inside of it. Very possible but in this situation that was not the case. I weld huge autoclaves (sterilizers) at work and a portion of the welding involves me inside of a stainless steel chamber. The only way to do this without feeling like death or getting flashed from reflection is to cover all exposed skin and wear a respirator with good enough ventilation to keep the air safe, but not so much you risk a contaminated weld via blowing the shielding gas away from the puddle...fun fun fun. -Crazy Ivan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Dave Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 Ivan: I think an email to Miller would be in order, and proper. They might know about working outdoors with the Elite series helmet. You would think that working outdoors in sunlight would effect most auto-darkening helmets and other helmet wearers would of complained also? Miller Elite has 4 sensors compared to two or three in others so I think it is sensitive enough. There must be something that the sunlight does to effect the sensors? I wonder if there is a warning somewhere in the instructions about welding outdoors with their Elite helmets? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmccustomknives Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 Were you wearing a light colored shirt? Reflecting arc rays will burn your eyes. Always wear safety glasses under your hood, cheap insurance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arftist Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 Learn how to weld with a regular helmet. I tried them all, they all broke eventually, and what do you do when it breaks in the field? Buy a Jackson Shadow, they are the lightest that I have found. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Ivan Posted May 8, 2014 Author Share Posted May 8, 2014 Learn how to weld with a regular helmet. I tried them all, they all broke eventually, and what do you do when it breaks in the field? Buy a Jackson Shadow, they are the lightest that I have found. I still have my first welding helmet and it's a Jackson Shadow actually. I have dropped it off buildings before in my ironworker days and it still refuses to break (except the glass and headgear of course). As a full time welder working on ASME coded autoclaves however I find the auto-darkening shields much more convenient and practical. Unfortunately right now I loaned my Jackson out to my friend who is working on getting his 1" unlimited 7018 certs. The Jackson is normally my shop shield and I keep the Miller at work. For most things I do prefer a regular shield but when its long hours of out of position welding I find it better to use the auto-darkening types. So far this is my first time getting arc-blinded that did not result from my own stupidity and generally trust auto-darkening shields. Looks like I need to make my friend hurry up with his tests and get my Jackson shield back. Were you wearing a light colored shirt? Reflecting arc rays will burn your eyes. Always wear safety glasses under your hood, cheap insurance. Nope, always black shirts for me haha. Some dark safety glasses my be in order though. Ivan: I think an email to Miller would be in order, and proper. They might know about working outdoors with the Elite series helmet. You would think that working outdoors in sunlight would effect most auto-darkening helmets and other helmet wearers would of complained also? Miller Elite has 4 sensors compared to two or three in others so I think it is sensitive enough. There must be something that the sunlight does to effect the sensors? I wonder if there is a warning somewhere in the instructions about welding outdoors with their Elite helmets? I will do that tomorrow and see what they say. sometimes when you write a company about something like this, they send you free goodies for your troubles so its worth a shot either way! Hopefully they will either have a solution or suggestions about a better suited shield for me. -Crazy Ivan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John McPherson Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 Even cheap clear safety glasses under your hood will block 99.9% of the UV, I stopped getting headaches when I began wearing safety glasses 24/7 in the shop, not just when I was within 10' of an arc. You have no idea how much reflected light there is in a shop. And two guys welding inside a SS chemical reactor vessel (think being inside a disco ball) :BTDT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Dave Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 When I looked up on the Miller Elite website, they indicate that the Elite series has the X-mode: X-Mode – Can be used in Shades #8-13 Electromagnetic Arc Sensing eliminates: Sunlight interference - Outdoors, Low-Amperage Lens Opening - TIG, Lens Openings - Pipe/Curves, Obstructed Sensors - Hidden/Cavity Weld Based on the above, the sensors should have reacted even in the sunlight, unless they didn't work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yahoo2 Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 It is a good helmet. definitely use X-mode for low amp work in direct sunlight. I would also replace the pair of batteries and clean the battery terminal connections. the specs for these is up to 3000 hours with the "solar assist", that is not much if you weld as much as I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Yates Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 It is possible to be getting 'flash from behind' if your helmet, as in the reflected light from the sides or underneath your helmet as well, especially if you are welding in a workshop with white walls or around light reflective surfaces. Ensure your helmet is fitting properly and that no light can be reflected to the inside of it. A thought might be to inspect your lenses for any cracks. The mechanic I work with flashed himself pretty good with his auto darkening helmet. He tracked it down to a hairline crack in a lens reflecting. changed it out and everything has been good since. Were you wearing a light colored shirt? Reflecting arc rays will burn your eyes. Always wear safety glasses under your hood, cheap insurance. There are a ton of reasons for getting "ark eyes" and listed above are several and you listed one in one of your post's as well the hood is three years old,has a battery that is solar charged to maintain the millisecond response time to the ark flash .Yes it is possible for the Battery to die even though you have used it everyday for three years . when you can see once again and good inspect the censer cells for the flash(Do Not clean the outer lens just yet) if either one is covered you have found the issue ! if not continue on with the inspection . the solar cell Very Very Closely at an angle to see if it has any waves Or cracks in it, that would indicate it has been compromised the same with the lens inspect it with a white light it will show through you may need to do this in a dark room and put the hood on keep the light to the front of the hood and try different angles around the lens if you see white light in the hood it is toast . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Ivan Posted May 8, 2014 Author Share Posted May 8, 2014 There are a ton of reasons for getting "ark eyes" and listed above are several and you listed one in one of your post's as well the hood is three years old,has a battery that is solar charged to maintain the millisecond response time to the ark flash .Yes it is possible for the Battery to die even though you have used it everyday for three years . when you can see once again and good inspect the censer cells for the flash(Do Not clean the outer lens just yet) if either one is covered you have found the issue ! if not continue on with the inspection . the solar cell Very Very Closely at an angle to see if it has any waves Or cracks in it, that would indicate it has been compromised the same with the lens inspect it with a white light it will show through you may need to do this in a dark room and put the hood on keep the light to the front of the hood and try different angles around the lens if you see white light in the hood it is toast . Will do. Luckily today I can see well enough without being too photosensitive but as my luck goes, this morning as I was heading out the door to go to work, I was kick starting my moped, er uh....huge and tough motorcycle... and threw out my back some crazy how. Ten days away from getting health insurance. Now I get to miss more work (on payday no less). If it wasn't for bad luck, I'd have no luck at all. -Crazy Ivan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 HEY Ivan, what do you mean bad luck? You have us don't you? Frosty The Lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gergely Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 Hey Man, I was gonna say something funny about us (as Mr. Frosty said) and some pain somehow connected together. Unfortunately can't put that into the right words. Anyways what I really ment to say is: get better soon, and I root for your health insurance - hoping you won't need to use it very often! Greetings Gergely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 I spoke with Miller Welding and they said that if the hood was in good shape and not comprised in some way, most likely you were getting arc flash from under or around the sides of the hood. A white shirt, being next to a building or reflective surface such as another vehicle, etc could reflect the arc flash which may not be noticeable during daylight. Repeated small welds would add to the problem as each arc flash would be accumulative. Working inside you would notice this reflected arc flash and adjust your body or head to block it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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