JimsShip Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Can you heat, hammer and shape a magnet without losing it's magnetic qualities? I have this idea for a desktop memo holder, where I would use a small jewlers anvil (Probably mounted on a piece of oak or something) and i'd like to find a nice size block magnet to heat and shape into a peen hammer head that I would drill and fit with a nice handle so the hammer could be lifted off the anvil and notes could be left under it magnetically holding them down. It may be a silly question, but is this possible, or should I try and make a hammer head out of iron and find a bullet magnet or something to glue to the hammer face? (The second option may not look as good since the magnet seam would show, unless I drill out the hammer face, but that may be more work than needed.) Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 if the metal is heated, its reduces the effectivness until it gets near AC3 and then It will stop working as a magnet, since the aligmemnt of the grains will change upon conversion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmoothBore Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Heating will destroy the molecular alignment in a ferrous magnet. It sounds like a clever project, ... so why not just machine the hammer head from a "bar" magnet ? . ( i think there IS a process for magnetizing ferrous metal, by passing a current through it as it cools, ... but it seems like a lot of trouble, when other, simple solutions are available. ) . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimsShip Posted February 6, 2014 Author Share Posted February 6, 2014 I didn't think so, but I was optimistic. Guess I need to investigate the drill route. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimsShip Posted February 6, 2014 Author Share Posted February 6, 2014 SmoothBore, you think I could grind a bar magnet to shape? I didn't think I could get it as smooth as i'd like, but I guess it's worth a try. I'd still need to drill it for a handle. (I get the feeling tiny shavings are going to get stuck everywhere!) :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaughnT Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Or....... Forge your hammer head to shape, but don't forge out the face of the hammer. Leave this a bare cylinder that you can round off and thread. Then forge a hammer head face (using the same parent stock) that you can drill and tap to mate to the threads on the main body. Insert a strong magnet into the bottom of the face piece and screw it all together. The seam between the face and body should be lost in the finishing process depending on where it is in the design. Will the magnet be strong enough to support the weight of the hammer? Would it make sense to put a larger magnet in the anvil instead? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 How about making the face of the anvil a magnet and then using a plain steel hammer you could glue on a thin magnet if you wanted and the seam would make it look like one of the anvils where they didn't dress it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cross Pein Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 if the metal is heated, its reduces the effectivness until it gets near AC3 and then It will stop working as a magnet, since the aligmemnt of the grains will change upon conversion. So I can't help but wonder, if you were to heat the finished piece to 'near AC3' and let it cool inside a strong magnetic field, would it retain the grain alignment and become a magnet? If so, you wouldn't even need to start with a magnet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 that is correct, the key is to use a very strong magnetif field to get a usable magnet from the target :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimsShip Posted February 6, 2014 Author Share Posted February 6, 2014 Thomas, I thought about using a thin magnet (like the ones they give out for business cards to put on the fridge) but they are more rubbery than metalic, and I would lose that satisfying sound of the CLINK when metal hits metal! :) Vaugn, that sounds a bit more complicated than I can handle myself (I don't have a tap or dye). I was thinking I could drill out the center of the hammer head and place one of thos strong round magnets inside. Thanks for all the suggestions, I'll let you know what I come up with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Not if you use a good ceramic or disk drive magnet, they have the click! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the iron dwarf Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 wind a coil round a tube, something non magnetic but not bothered by a little heat, place hot item inside tube and connect the coil to a dc supply, maybe blow some air through the tube so the coil does not get to hot whilst your hammer or anvil cools Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Turley Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 "Magnetizer - Demagnetizers" are for sale retail and reasonable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Forge the piece, heat to non-magnetic and place in a strong magnetic field. DC electromagnet works better than laying it next to a bar magnet but you can just lay it magnetic north south and do the job. The stronger the field the stronger the effect. Have an old motor around? Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaughnT Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Jim, it wouldn't need to be threaded - that's just me talking all complicated. A gob of epoxy would hold the two pieces together, or it could be blind pinned. The key would be to camouflage joint by making it look like it was supposed to be there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmoothBore Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Starting with a magnetic round bar, ... I'd turn and polish the head on a lathe, ... then cross drill the handle hole, and elongate it with an end mill. A simple easy little project. Forging is only one of the "tools" at your disposal, ... and it's my opinion that using the "right" tool, ... is always the correct path. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yahoo2 Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 machining magnetic material brings its own challenges. as well as magnetizing tools and chucks, rare earth magnets can catch fire and release some toxins from the dust while machining. need to be a little bit choosey about what gets ground or milled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thingmaker3 Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Why not just drill a hole in the bottom of the jeweler's anvil and stuff in a good magnet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimsShip Posted February 7, 2014 Author Share Posted February 7, 2014 I love all these ideas! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Hmmm size the magnetic rod long enough and it would also "stick" to a metal desk giving the small anvil an apparent larger weight! (might drill it out for one of the super magnets just for that reason...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patrick Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 Being magnetic or non magnetic is NOT a function of grain alignment. It is function phase-austentite is non magnetic while ferrite is magnetic. The difference between austenite and ferrite has to do with the relative position of carbon and iron atoms in the crystallographic matrix. Those change with temperature in a plane carbon steel. The 300 series stainless steels are alloyed with nickel which alloys austenite to be stable to cryogenic temperatures which is why those alloys are non-magnetic even at room temperature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 you are saying that the realignment caused by heating is not effecting the metal from being a magnet ? I was under the impression that polarity is what cause it to be a magnet or not. and the scrambling of the grain, or what ever you wish to call the cubic structures, from the heating removes that alignment. I do admit that magnitism is not my field of speciality, but i also know liquid metal can generate serious magnetism. but that is getting a bit too far into physics for me or IFI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thingmaker3 Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 You guys are confusing "grain" with "crystal structure" and "atoms." It is the alignment of the atoms which makes for magnetic or nonmagnetic. It is the crystal structure (how the atoms stack, whethere aligned or not) which makes for ferrite or austenite. It is whole crystal, whether magnetic ferrite or nonmagnetic austenite, which constitues a grain. What we do with or to the grain structure makes a differenence for mechanical properites, of course, but has no influence on magentic vs nonmagnetic. Other than carbides and inclusions, you won't find any "molecules" in steel - only a crystal matrix. I hope that was more help than hinderence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweany Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 How about a simplified miniature Oliver hammer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockstar.esq Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 I think it'd be neat if the hammer floated over the anvil due to polarity. Neat project for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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