Ridgewayforge Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 A couple of days ago, I made a nail header. It works fairly well, but I wanted to open it up for criticism and helpful advice for my next one. I made it out of a railroad spike without the head, and punched a square hole mostly through. Then I drilled a 1/4" hole in the underside. It worked well without sticking. Thank you for looking! Ridgewayforge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Generally I make mine domed so you can get a nice rosehead nail using it. I also use car coil spring for the material as it's tougher than RR spike having about twice the carbon content of an HC spike. For my new students I have them make their first nails using a swing arm fuller to dent the stock at the shaft to head transition and then have them taper the shaft always keeping the head part OFF the anvil to keep it from any tapering making a good place for the header to lodge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rashelle Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 You might want to taper the underside of the hole. To help prevent upsetting and binding into the hole. I was also going to say doming the upper part may help also but Thomas beat me to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgewayforge Posted January 5, 2014 Author Share Posted January 5, 2014 Gotcha on the domed head, that will be on the next one. Is spring steel that much better than low carbon for this application? What kind of cross section of the hole is best for nail making? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rashelle Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Like Thomas said spring is better. It will wear better without deformation as soon. A pyramid to an elongated spike is better for the cross section the base being at the base. Some people also seem to prefer a slight relief at the top also. Steve Mankowski of Colonial Williamsburg did a demo at Fort Vancouver where he punched most of the way through the bottom of the nail header then filed it across the top to get a good even opening. Keeping it domed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Spring steel will last longer, especially the dome. As your using the header as an anvil/die its subject to wear. One of the smiths around here uses grader blade and I've heard of using rail. I've seen 1" sucker rod cut of and a handle welded on, and then the disk punched. I think anvil fire has an article using a grade 8 bolt, and some one on here forge welded a steal face on a mild steal body. Lots of ways to skin that cat, but the higher carbon and/or die steels will certainly last longer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 The hole should have an hour glass shape. That way the restriction at the top holds the material while forming the head, and the opening at the bottom is larger than the nail and there is no restriction to jam or hold the nail in the header when finished. Cool the header after each nail is made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgewayforge Posted January 5, 2014 Author Share Posted January 5, 2014 Glenn, you mention an hourglass shape: what are the proportions? Is it a true hourglass, or is one side offset? Because how much would the shank upset if it is a true hourglass figure? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 A lot depends on how many nails you plan to make: 1 a month then that header will last a couple of years; 40 in a weekend for a chest then it will probably start wearing out before you are done. As coil spring is usually easily found free why not go with it when you make the domed version? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 I was taught to use a ball peen hammer and drive the peen end into the metal to form both the domed top AND a open bottom. Punch a small(ish) hole in the dome. MAKE a taper in the stock size you like the nail to be, and open up the hole to that size. BP0189 Nails: http://www.iforgeiron.com/page/index.html/_/blueprints/100-series/bp0189-nails-r413 Be careful when using spring steel for headers. Yes, it shattered !! But I got the one nail made in that header that was required for this Blueprint. Upon reflection, I ask where the metal came from for this header. It was from that stack of drops on the far end of the work table, was the reply. Those were the pieces of leaf spring I had cut for use as plates for hardie tools. And in the haste to get the header made and a nail produced, the header was quenched from a nice low orange color directly into cold water. I have made headers from mild steel and let them cool naturally with no problems. Have two that I have used for several years now. So, choose your steel wisely and choose your quench, if a quench is even needed. I lost an hours work on this one by the wrong choice of materials. But I did get ONE nail made before it failed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefflus Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 I like a transition with thin stock before the handle starts to absorb shocks, because these tools can really give you one if you're working on an irregular anvil face. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogueRugger Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 When I first started with nails, after a bit of trial and mostly error, I finally figured out the tip mentioned by Thomas. Now I use the edge of the anvil when I make the first few until I get my brain/eyes calibrated. I couldn't get to the link mentioned by Glen. I initially had problems with the nail sticking, but you don't seem to have run into that (very frustrating). The quick dip in the tub just before 'popping' the nail out of the header was one of things that helped me with that. And also helps keep the header a bit cooler as suggested by Glen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Your link did not work and was removed. This will show the hour glass feature. Some thin out the dome and just make it a funnel shape, with or without rounded top edges (radiused edges). Many ways to do things, use what works for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Olivo Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgewayforge Posted January 6, 2014 Author Share Posted January 6, 2014 Thomas: How do you heat treat your spring steel nail headers? Glenn: I will try the method you mention; I cannot get to the link you posted, but would be very interested in the bp. Stephen, Thanks for the link! I am going to study your notes, thanks for sharing with me! I want to begin each forging session by making some nails, I found it fun. So, I want a durable header. What is a good thickness for the domed part of the header? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 IForgeIron > Pages > Blueprints > 100 series > BP0189 Nails Link works now for me. Dome thickness varies with the nail size. Thick enough to hold the nail, thin enough to release. I would have to measure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Olivo Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 mine are around…3/4 of an inch for nails like those used in my wood tool box. http://ipneto.deviantart.com/art/Chest-hardware-for-tool-box-212343003 http://ipneto.deviantart.com/art/My-first-tool-box-212344734 Best to fit it to the nail sizes your making above and beyond that. Any smaller nails I would make a 3/4 thick one. Just larger nails would benefit from a larger header. You don't want the header to small or your hammer won't have any room to make the head without hitting the anvil or some other bothersome point. Sometime here I will make a handle with a replaceable size nail header. Seen people do it with the bolt heads and plan on doing something like that some time just haven't gotten around to it yet. Wow with all my pictures I haven't yet taken a picture of the nail headers I have made... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimsShip Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 I was recently looking into making one for myself, and I found this very helpful tutorial: http://www.piehtoolco.com/Product_Info/nailheading.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doc Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Having made countless nails for restoration projects ( 10 thousand for Old Fort San Juan and 5 thousand for the Lincoln Tavern) plus the thousands that go with just making repro hardware. I can tell you that the links from Jimship and Stephen are what you want to follow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikecopXXX Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 glenn i'm not finding the nail link, but lots of other interesting stuff in there that i hadn't seen before Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy k Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 click on this:> http://www.iforgeiron.com/page/index.html/_/blueprints/100-series/bp0189-nails-r413 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikecopXXX Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 click on this:> http://www.iforgeiron.com/page/index.html/_/blueprints/100-series/bp0189-nails-r413 All i get is "sorry we couldn't find that". Maybe i need the paid membership! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arkie Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 IForgeIron > Pages > Blueprints > 100 series > BP0189 Nails Link works now for me. Dome thickness varies with the nail size. Thick enough to hold the nail, thin enough to release. I would have to measure. Glenn, I used the search function all through "Pages", "Blueprints" and even the "100 Series" and found nothing for BP0189. All the search found was a hammer ring and bellows using BP0189 for the search term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaughnT Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Glen, I just searched through the entire 100 series 100 Series and couldn't find anything on making nails or headers. The link you provided doesn't work, either. And they say computers are supposed to make our lives easier! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 BP0189 Nails I think I fixed the problem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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