NOVICE SMITHS, Be careful!!

[RKM556]

I would like to share a chain of events that could have been avoided. I was not aware at the time that what I was doing was incorrect, mainly because I am just starting my 15th month of forging. There are many, many amateur smiths like myself and I hope that they read this just so they won't have to go through the pain and trouble that I did!
 
So I was down in the shop, just like every day. I was finishing up a blade I had started a month before and I was using flat jawed tongs (Mistake I) while I was working on the project. I had always used them since they were 1/8th in tongs and they worked great. So I was wearing my normal gear; apron, glove on the left hand, and very high end safety glasses (mistake II, for a beginner at least). They were high end because I am actually blind in my right eye, so I made sure to spend extra cash on glasses that fit very close to my face and offered UV protection. I was drawing out the tang of the knife, when suddenly it seriously flew right at my face, hitting my face and burning it, also kicking off my safety glasses in an unknown direction. (I didn't find them until two weeks later) For a millisecond, my brain said "Well geez, that sure was close!" Then, I looked up. I couldn't see. Not well at least! The only thing I could make out was the light coming in through my open shop door. I couldn't believe it, I had hit my only good eye. So, I ran outside and sprinted as fast as I could up to my house from the shop. Luckily, since I practically live in my shop, I could do this without seeing. I could feel blood running down the left side of my face and I knew this was VERY serious. The final mistake is that I was home alone, so calling 911 was a pain and trying to explain that my driveway was 1/2 a mile long while experiencing excruciating pain wasn't the best way to spend an afternoon... They arrived and took me to the hospital.
 
Long story short! I had received a centimeter long corneal abrasion (OUCH), and my vision was 20/400 (besides the right eye... ;) ). Three weeks of the most pain I have ever felt and being super light sensitive, I'm back working just like I used to (with good eyesight again! I just wanted to say, however to all the beginners:
 
1. Please heed my advice and use goggles! The piece went UNDER my safety glasses!" 
 
2. Use THE CORRECT tongs! Don't use tools that weren't meant for their original use. This is very tempting for a beginner who doesn't have a bunch of money to spend on tongs. 
 
3. Keep 911 on speed dial! (at least if you are blind in one eye already, like me  :D )
 
 
 
The only purpose of this message is to keep others safe. Learn from me; I sure wish I had known this stuff three weeks ago from today! Stay safe you guys and happy smithing!
 
Your friendly neighborhood blacksmith in the making, 
 
Ryan

[ThorsHammer82]

When I worked in retail, I was working truck one morning and the keys sent for the lock on the truck were not the right keys (Mistake #1) so we had to run to the walmart on the other side of the parking lot to get a pair of bolt cutters (mistake #2) While trying to cut the lock off the truck (Mistake #3) the tip of the cheap bolt cutters broke off and shot 15' ish straight into the eye of one of my coworkers. She ended up being fine, but yeah. that wasn't a fun day at work. Eye injuries are not something to be lazy about.

[Rich Hale]

Since you brought this up there are a lot of notes written on this forum that cover just wot you mentioned. And the very first thing that glares at me is that you were hitting steel too cold. hot steel will not have the inclination to jump anywhere. It will get thinner between the top and bottom dies. Of course you should use correct tongs. and there is information on here on how to adjust the jaws to fit the stock...and that may change as you thin and reshape the stock..simple to do once you learn and use it.

Good that you put this in here as it is is another reminder:

 

My shop is completely safe until I enter.

[Steve Sells]

Also if you had read up about eye protection, you would already know that a polycarbonate lenz naturally protect from UV, and the forge does not produce much if any UV, rather it produces IR, which is at the other end of the light scale.

[RKM556]

I think you're right about the heat. However, when forging carbon steel I only keep it out of the forge until it loses its orangy-red color so I don't stress the steel too much. Also, I actually didn't know that. I have always word what my eye doctor tells me is best (I actually wear polycarbonate glasses full time because I only have one good eye), so I didn't even realize they naturally protected against that. 

 

By the way, Rich, I love that quote. 

[Glenn]

There are multiple layers of protection available for the eyes. First the eye lid itself, it acts as a cover protecting as it closes.

 

The rest of the layers of protection can be prescription glass, safety glasses, side shields,  goggles, and full face shields. Welding helmets with clear lenses are sometimes better than full face shields as they tend to wrap around the face more. Then there are cabinets like the sand blast cabinets with just the arm holes and viewing windows. Problem is they are just a wall with no roof so things can fall from above and get to you.

 

We need to remember legs and feet and provide protection to them from flying objects, falling objects, sparks, and who knows what all else.

 

Use personal protection above the worse case accident you can imagine happening by at least one or more levels. IForgeIron pushes safety for a reason. It is more fun to forge than to visit the hospital plus all that time recovering. If it feels weird stop and listen to the voice. If need be just close the shop door and come back tomorrow.  

[ThomasPowers]

Remember your eye Dr is up on eyes but may know nothing about blacksmithing and confuse it's hazards with arc welding.

 

I had a friend who was an opthomologist *and* researched the specifics for smithing---and gave me a good talking to when I was a young smith.

[RGraff]

I can't begin to recall all the close calls I've had over the years with "stuff" getting in under the safety glasses.  I don't wear goggles just because of the way they tend to fog up.  In the end we do what we can do with what we have.  As I approach middle age (I refuse to admit I'm there) I like to think I use the best of both worlds...good safety equipment and safe working practices.  That said, the odd incident will occasionally happen and it's tough to predict everything.

 

Good to hear there are no long lasting effects of your accident although that must have been painful XXXXXX

[Bigred1o1]

its amazing how things can travel i had a bead of slag from when i was welding get inside my mask bonce off my face then the mask and end up burning my eyelid even though i had the safety glasses i have in my profile pic on  i got a nice pea sized blister on my upper eye lid from that bit of pinball

[PaulKrzysz]

I can't begin to recall all the close calls I've had over the years with "stuff" getting in under the safety glasses.  I don't wear goggles just because of the way they tend to fog up.  In the end we do what we can do with what we have.  As I approach middle age (I refuse to admit I'm there) I like to think I use the best of both worlds...good safety equipment and safe working practices.  That said, the odd incident will occasionally happen and it's tough to predict everything.

 

Good to hear there are no long lasting effects of your accident although that must have been painful

If you are having a problem with the glasses fogging up, please buy anti-fog safety glasses. $15-20 at home depot up here in Canada.

They are well worth it.

[BobL]

There are multiple layers of protection available for the eyes. First the eye lid itself, it acts as a cover protecting as it closes.

 

The rest of the layers of protection can be prescription glass, safety glasses, side shields,  goggles, and full face shields. Welding helmets with clear lenses are sometimes better than full face shields as they tend to wrap around the face more.  . . . . . ..  

 

I started with safety glasses but then realised the full face shield I use on my lathes and grinders provides excellent viewing, no fogging, plus all round protection.

 

The 3D curvature of the shield adds significant strength.

About 6 years ago I was using a 2D curved shield while using a chainsaw mill with a 111 cc chainsaw. A 3/8" bolt on the mill worked its way loose and fell onto the chain at full RPM and the bolt flew into my shield right between my eyes and it flattened the shield and left an ugly bruise. That's when I switched to a 3D shield. I now have 3 of these shields and am very happy with them.

[David Einhorn]

...... That's when I switched to a 3D shield. I now have 3 of these shields and am very happy with them.

 

I searched and can not find a "3D shield". May I ask the name of the manufacturer and who sells them?

[arkie]

Pardon my barging in, but in the interest of safety here's a recommendation for a face shield.  I use this one when using an angle grinder and cutoff wheels as well as my bench grinder.  The Uvex models are pricey, but the face coverage and comfort is well worth it, plus the safety aspects.  It covers so well and is so comfortable that sometimes I have to touch the face plate to make sure it's down. Google this model; I got mine from Amazon;

"Uvex S8510 Bionic Shield, Black Matte Face Shield, Clear Polycarbonate Anti-Fog/Hardcoat Lens"

[BobL]

I searched and can not find a "3D shield". May I ask the name of the manufacturer and who sells them?

 

3D (3 dimensions) is my description and it refers to the extent of the curvature of the shield.
Any shield that curves in 3D will have a greater strength than one that just curves in 2D

The are many out there, the brand I prefer is by Protector and the model is called Armadillo.

 

The Uvex by Honeywell is more of a 2D shield but it does have a strong frame that more than makes up for this.

However, I found the UVEX frame restricts vision more than the totally clear armadillo, and It does not suit my earmuffs as well as the Armadillo.

[Charles R. Stevens]

So what do we have for anti fog? Glasses, safty glasses, goggles, shields, welding helmets...

[RGraff]

If you are having a problem with the glasses fogging up, please buy anti-fog safety glasses. $15-20 at home depot up here in Canada.

They are well worth it.

I didn't mean to imply I wasn't wearing any protection, just that I've had little luck with goggles (anti-fog or otherwise).  I've found glasses that are relatively close fitting and have no fogging issues with them.  I also use a shield, coupled with the glasses, but only when I'm on my back underneath a project.  More to keep things from traveling down my neck than anything though.

[ptree]

Team, lets think about a few common issues here. A face sheild is designed to protect the...? FACE. The windows used in face sheilds vary greatly in material and thickness. But they are designed to protect? FACE. They are not rated as eye protection nor have I ever seen one Marked ANSI Z-87 or the newer ASTM spec's that tell us they have been tested for impact and are as strong as a rated safety spectacle.

 

Safety glasses must pass impact testing and the frames must retain the lens. There are now 2 levels or testing and the higher level is better. I have not seen any readily available high impact rated prescription lens yet.

 

For those who wear non prescription lens, called "Plano" in the trade, there are a huge selection of safety glasses that have a nice sealing GASKET around the entire perimeter of the lens set. They only work under 2 conditions.

a. You have to use the strap and have them tight against the face. Use just the temples and they are no better than regular.

b. You have to wear them.

All regular Plano glasses are now available with scratch guard and anti-fog coating at little additional cost. Heck I buy wrap around style polycarbonate lens planos for the factory with scratch guard and anti-fog at $0.80 each! Yes I do buy quantity and at wholesale.

 

The actual truth of reality is that any protection over your eyes is better than none. But at $0.80 to $2.00 each, just consider your safety glasses as a consummable and toss them when scratched up, but always have that less than the cost of a Starbucks coffee on your face, up tight and then you can continue to use the eyes you have.

 

When using power equipment such as wire wheels and grinders a face sheild over glasses gives 2 layers for the eyes, and also protects the face.

 

When buying face sheilds, splurge a bit and spend the couple of extra dollars for the ratchet hear gear, it is more comfortable, fits better, and you will more likely wear it.

 

For gas cutting a shade 4 window for a face sheild it the nicest addition you will find to your tool kit, great vision, and all the hot stuff gets diverted from your face.

 

Remember, "Life is too short to spend any of it Dead, injured, or in Jail. Any combination of those 3 really suck"

 

Ptree the Industrial safety and health guy.

[VaughnT]

From your story, the only problem I see is that you were using tongs that weren't right for the stock you were working.  That the metal flew out could be the result of poor hammer control, but that would have been seriously hampered had you had the proper size and shape of tong for the metal you were working.  

 

You stated very clearly that you're safety glasses fit well and tight, and that the metal knocked them to next week, leaving your eye exposed.  That's not a problem with the eyewear, though.  You had glasses on, but refused to use the proper size tongs to secure your work.  A full shield would be nice, but where do you draw the line?

 

I'm glad to hear that you're healed up.  Spend that $50 for a brand new pair of tongs that fits the stock you want to work and it will save you a few hundred in medical bills.  

[Quarry Dog]

Okay, seriously dumb, serious questions incoming.

  Most of the work I've done has either been round stock, square stock, or flat stock, always with a fairly close fitting set of tongs around.  If tongs wouldn't fit, I was working with stuff long enough for me to hold onto, which is really how I prefer to work.  As such, I've never really used any of the mass amounts of flat jaw tongs I've seen.  What would they really be useful for unless you're holding onto a small piece of plate?

  I also have yet to make a knife.  I have a feeling that I would still to have the work parallel with the bit and have a channel for one of the bits, or that weird style where it wraps around the bar.  However, in the event that I had to work perpendicular to the bit, there's not really an effective crossbit setup for plate/billet/flatbar, is there?  All the ideas I have for that seem like they would crack in the first day of use.  Would not a flat-jaw set of tongs, sized to the stock, be appropriate for the application of working a knife billet at perpendicular/odd angles?

  RKM even said "They worked great."  I wouldn't say that about a set of tongs if the metal was wiggling, rattling, or slipping excessively.  Could it have been just a matter of hitting it just wrong and having bad timing?

 

  TLDR Version:

    1)What makes Flat-jaw tongs unsuitable for blades?

    2)If not a blade/plate/flat billet, what use does a properly sized set of flat jaw tongs have?

[Frank Turley]

I've been witness to 3 hot steel head injuries, and head injuries produce lots of blood. These were all from ill fitting tongs.

 

Flat tongs on flat stock can result in some side wiggle, even if they have parallel closure on the work. By adding a couple of clips to the sides of one jaw, you get "clip tongs" which are safer. Even better, "box tongs" have a raised edge all along each length of one jaw to help prevent sideways slip. When holding a tang, sometimes "pincer tongs" work well. At the central end of each curved jaw where the jaws meet, there is a vee notch or squarish notch to hold the work.

 

It doesn't take long to fit tongs to the work. At our school, we often squeeze the hot jaws in the vise around the room-temp piece that they are to fit. We use a heat which also covers the boss area and some of the reins. The reins change shape when the jaws change, so we fine tune the reins at the same time we adjust the jaws. The tongs are horizontal in the vise, so we can better see and get the reins right.

 

Sayings and Cornpone

"He's been around the world and many other famous places."

      Okie saying, said of a braggart.

[Quarry Dog]

  Ok, so flat jaw tongs wiggle too much for just about anything and are pretty much a last resort?  That sounds reasonable enough, considering that there really isn't that much effort that goes into making the bit.  So, what type of tongs one would hold flatbar, or a knife billet, perpendicular to tongs safely?  Would one take a bolt-headed set of tongs with a channel-type bit, of about the right size for the work, and bend them 90° off to one side between the bit and boss? Or would that put too much stress on that bend?

[Frank Turley]

Jerome, What you suggest would work, but a simpler way would be to bend down the tip of one jaw. Another route would be to set-hammer a channel crossways on one jaw. Or both.

 

Sayings and Cornpone

"A liar needs to have a good memory."