Matching Brushed nickel hardware????

[FieryFurnace]

Hi guys! Need some help.

I have a potential client with a large, dark (probably stained walnut) door. He wants a door knocker. His current hardware (handle, lock, and hinges) is nicer range, mass produced, brushed nickel.

Do any of you guys have any ideas of how to match that finish in the door knocker? Or am I complicating simplicity, and should just stick with natural steel black?

I'll upload some pics of the door in a bit....maybe that will help.

Thanks!

[neg]

I've seen nickel plating kits online, but they're pretty expensive. Might not be worth getting for just one customer...

[doc]

Save yourself a lot of time and trouble and go with the black. 

[Robert Yates]

Satin brushed is normally achieved by sessile, steel wool, or the synthetic belts like the colored scrubber pads used in washing dishes . Sorry I am drawing a blank today as to what is the proper name for them . tis a bad day for me my mind is not working .

 

Sam

[SoCal Dave]

Don't settle for just black until you've checked out other colors that will match the door color. A patina might be really nice.  A picture would help.   

[Frosty]

I'm afraid this one falls under what the customer wants. You may have to send it out for plating, the customer pays all the extra of course including shipping and handling.

 

Nickle plating isn't hard but it is involved, first you have to apply the finish you want after plating. I was surprised to find the plating shop polishes the bare steel before plating. Then you copper plate it, clean it and nickle plate it. Chrome plating is a weather proofing so it stays shiny. Brushed finish in this case probably won't require chrome.

 

It's not all that hard, copper sulphate is good for plating electrolyte, you don't need a copper cathode. (or is it the anode?) I don't know what the nickle solution for direct plating is but you CAN use nickle for the cathode, an acid electrolyte speeds the process.

 

I did a little plating with a home chemistry set WAY back. It worked, was easy but what a hassle. I'd sub plating out.

 

Frosty The Lucky.

[Timothy Miller]

Forge it from Monell or 70/30 cupro/nickel

[Jim Coke]

Greetings Fiery,

 

This may sound silly but .. Depending on design of your knocker you may try stainless...Many times after forging stainless it takes on a whole new patina.

I found by brush sanding and some surface brighting  you can fake the nickel look..  To dull you can use German nickel guilders paste..   Depends on the customers budget what they get...  You can also try nickel metal transfer on the stainless much like brass brushing..  Depends on design your design. 

 

 

 

 

Keep forging     Jim

[FieryFurnace]

I don't have much time to comment on what all has been presented thus far. I appreciate the input and will peruse it as time allows.

 

Here are a few pictures. I haven't even looked at them closely to determine a general idea of design or proportion. I've got a few other jobs to get going, as well as this one.

 

 

 

[ianinsa]

Don't muck about with the plating if you have never done it before, don't get me wrong its a wonderfull and interesting prosess.  For this project it would be easier to just forge it out of 304s/s then pickle in citric acid (nitric is much better but has become controlled/listed n many places) then brush/rub with scotchbrite pads(if you have a Pherd agency near you you can easile purchase fittingt for power tools to brush s/s)

Makita 9031 & 9032 are powerfiles just made for the job and the have scotchb rite belts as standards --  but that is probably a bit rich for a 1 off.

 

All the best Ian

[ianinsa]

On further thought, if you just buy a bunch of pot scouring pads(synthetic not steel wool or the like) cut them into a disc make a hole in the centre and mount on a arbour that goes into your powerdrill that should work just dandy.

 

Ian

[bigfootnampa]

One possibility that has not yet been mentioned would be to forge from mild steel and then tin the hardware as if it were a pot.  I have some antique examples that look very like stainless steel or nickel finishes... takes an expert eye to see the difference.  I am not sure how durable this might be... though I would expect decent results.

[bigfootnampa]

I have had hardware custom plated in the past and the results are stunningly fine... sadly the bills were even more impressive!

[FieryFurnace]

I like the idea of forging the stainless. I think plating is goings be too expensive for my client, not to mention never having done it before.
I can get stainless locally, but I've never forged it before. Does it work pretty much the same as steel as far as temperature and forging technique?
I can get scotch bright wheels for my drill gun, and maybe for my bench grinder.....that shouldn't be a problem. What about citic acid though? Anybody know where I can pick that up stateside?
What exactly does the pickling do?

What sort of finish should I go with on SS. I usually use oil, wax, or krylon clear coat. SS is going to be more rust proof than steel obviously, but should I plan on clear coating it to preserve the surface finish of the material?

Finally, does anyone have any pictures of SS finished in this way, or similarly? I'd like an idea of what it should/will look like.

[David.Posey]

You can get small quantities of citric acid at any grocery store or other place that sells canning supplies, usually in 5 oz bottles that should be more than enough for this one off. If you want a better deal and think you'll use more in the future, look for a homebrew store or buy it online.

[Timothy Miller]

Stainless steel is very hard to forge, it can split easily when it is forged too cold.  It is also it is hard to do detailed work in stainless steel.  I have lots of professional experience forging stainless steel I am not speculating here or parroting the words of others.  I much prefer to forge copper/nickel ihttp://www.farmerscopper.com/copper-nickel-715-c715-c71500.html.  It is more expensive but you will make up on the labor in a small piece,  It actually contains nickel so you are giving the client the real deal and that's what we as smiths supply the real deal not substitutions.   Plating makes chemicals you have to dispose of and that can get pricey.  I would make a finish sample regardless of witch way you go.  Do this before you take any cash from your client so you are not on the hook to make something that you are going to loose money on or don't currently have the experience to execute professionally. 

[FieryFurnace]

Thanks Timothy! I always look forward to your input on these type questions because of your experience, professionalism, and to-the-point honesty. I will look into the copper/nickel idea. I've forged copper enough to know how to handle it. I'm assuming that a copper nickel alloy would forge similar to it.
You wouldn't happen to have a small quantity you would be willing to part with, would you? A couple feet of 3/4-inch round or square bar, and one square foot of plate, say 1/4-inch plate, would do the trick.

[Cdworks]

Can't wait to see the finished product

[SoCal Dave]

I know most people prefer to give the customer what they want, but that door is tall and dark in color and, to me, calls for something narrow/long and dark also.  A little different than what the customer may want but if it looks good they maybe open to other options.  Example below:

 

 

 

 

[Timothy Miller]

I only have small scraps on hand I will look around and see what if anything I have that I can part with.  It tends to forge harder than copper it has a wide forging range stop short of yellow or it cracks and is a bit softer than steel.   You can do a good amount of cold work to it as well. 

[Timothy Miller]

Dave's design could be executed in stainless steel.

[Judson Yaggy]

When comparing hand forged hardware to mass produced stuff you can get close to the color (but not perfect) and finish (size of the scratches) of "brushed nickel" in stainless steel as long as you are willing to ignore surface texture and the subtle differences between hand forged and cast.  I would wager that the original door hardware is cast brass with electroplated nickel over top. Possible that is drop forged bronze with e.p. nickel.  

 

It is replicable but it's going to take a lot of hours to ape a mass produced door hardware style and to what end?  Do they want something that looks like it was made by the thousands just because it has the exact same color?  And can you make a profit producing a product with that exact finish?  If so then go for it.  It will be very expensive to copy that already "faux" finish. Otherwise spend a little time educating the client/designer about the vast quality difference between your hand forged stainless thing and whatever they can buy online or at the local interior designs store

 

If they are not interested in paying you top dollar for a one of a kind custom designed and forged thing out of stainless steel that almost matches the existing mass produced hardware, ask if they will pay even more for a custom forging out of true nickel alloy and that exactly matches design, material, patina, and surface finish. Call their bluff.  I suspect that if they won't bite on something out of just stainless then they are shopping for something equivalent to what you can buy out of a catalog and you should respectfully walk away.  

[Paul Crosby]

If you ever want to get into electroplating check out Rio Grande. I bought my electroplating supplies from them. Before you plate steel you would half to pre plate with copper to prevent rusting, then it's plated nickel. Plating stainless is possible but you need a special solution before you can plate it, basically another step. It's really not complicated to electroplate and with a small investment you could be plating, gold, silver, rhodium, copper and nickel.

[FieryFurnace]

So I forged some of my 304 stainless yesterday!

Someone mentioned pickling in citric acid. (Got plenty of that.) what ratio of water to acid should I use? I read online that 4-10% was good? Should I mix it with warm water or cold, or does it matter?

What should I expect the pickling to accomplish? How long should this take?

I need to pick up the scotch bright wheels still, but I want to go ahead and get the first steps rolling.


Thanks soooooo much guys!

[HWHII]

Pickling is a passivation process and should be done last, at the end of all you work. It will remove the color from welding, and make your part bright, but most importantly neturalize your parts exposure from contact with carbon steel and keep it from rusting. I have never used citric acid only paste. I will be curious to see how it works.