300 lb Hay Budden Robb Gunter Restoration

[Beebs]

Starting Point 
300lb Hay Budden anvil missing approx a 5" x 5"x .5" section of top plate. With the help of the forum members I verified it was not some priceless missing anvil link and then set out to complete the Robb Gunter repair process on the section of missing plate.

[Beebs]

Step 1) Assemble Tools and Materials
 
Welding rod
            Stoody 2110 3/16" buildup rod - 10 lb
            Stoody 1105 1/8" surfacing rod - 10lb.
            Weldfabulous.com -  approx. $150 +$16 shipping.
 
Weed Burner
            Tractor Supply - approx $50
            Also available from Home Depot for approx $50 as well.
 
Optical Pyrometer
            Home Depot - approx. $30
 
Filled 2 - 20 lb Propane Tanks - approx. $40
 
Scrap plywood to fabricate Heat Soak Box from - $0
 
Grinding wheels and sanding discs.
            Northern Tool - approx. $50
 
Vermiculite 2 - 2 cu. ft bags
            Home Depot - $42
 
Welder, Grinders and Sanders - already had

[Beebs]

Step 2) Fabricate Heat Soak Box.
 
Calculate box volume to ensure you will have enough Vermiculite to adequately cover the anvil for the extended cool down phase. Calculating the box volume is pretty easy (LxWxH) but calculating the volume of the anvil to deduct from the box volume can be  a little more difficult if you try to do it geometrically. I did a calculation of the anvil volume by determining the weight of 1 cu ft of mild steel (490 lbs) then dividing the anvil weight by this value to  determine the approx. volume of the anvil i.e. 300/ 490 =  .61 cu. ft.
            Originally I was trying to get by with just one bag of Vermiculite. I made the mistake of calculating the box size based on the size of the top plate. Fortunately I realized before I went too far that the anvil base is considerably wider then the face and it would determine the minimum box width. Once I realized I could not get by with just one bag of Vermiculite I optimized the box size to use most of the 2 bags I would have to buy. I ended up with a box that was approx 2" longer, 3" taller and 2" wider than maximum anvil dimensions.
          I fabricated the box and left the top and bottom panels separate from the 4 sides. I placed the anvil on the bottom panel before welding. This allowed me to place the 4 sides over the anvil after post weld heating and put the top on after filling the box with Vermiculite.
 

[Beebs]

Step 3) Surface Prep
 
I ground the missing plate section to clean metal. Then I ground back the remaining top plate to a straight edge plus approx. 3/8"  to ensure a good bond of the old plate. Last I ground slight chamfer on old top plate edge to help with weld tie in to old plate.

http://www.iforgeiron.com/gallery/image/37076-anvil-after-prep-grind/

[Beebs]

Step 4) Welding
 
After getting all the welding gear setup and ready to go I preheated the anvil evenly to 400 deg f. using the weed burner. This took about 45 min. I checked the temperature with the optical pyrometer. I noticed considerable differences in the indicated temperatures from the anvil sides and top. I attributed this to differences in the emissivity of the different areas. The shiny top plate was reading about 150 deg lower than the sides. I used a small drop of water to verify the top was hotter than the 200 deg being indicated and then used the sides to indicate the temps for the rest of the process. In hindsight I wish I would have  had a appropriate temp stick to verify the optical  pyrometer readings.
           I laid down 6 passes of the 3/16" Stoody 2110 build up rod. I had the welder set between 175 and 200 amps DC rev. The 2110 went on nice and flat. The most difficult part was getting the buildup beyond the edges far enough to ensure a straight and smooth edge after grinding. Neither of the Stoody rods work well in any welding position other then flat. I used a pneumatic needle gun to remove the slag and stress relieve the weld after each individual pass. I used a straight edge on spacers to verify the buildup height was adequate on both the 2110 and 1105  I stopped the 2110 approx. 1/8" below the top of the top plate.  I lightly  ground the last 2110 pass before starting the 1105 rods.
            I laid down 3 passes of the 18" 1105 surfacing rod on top of the 2110 at approx 100 amps DC rev on the welder, using the same needle gun to remove the slag and stress relieve the weld. The 1105 did not go on nearly as flat as the 2110. During the welding of both the 2110 and 1105 I had to stop several times and let the anvil cool due to excessive inter-pass temps over 400 deg.
            The table area was considerably worn and I build it up while I was at it  with just the 2110 rod without any of the 1105 surfacing rod.  
            The welding process took considerably longer than I had planned (approx 6 hrs). Once you start, you are pretty well committed to finish, so give yourself plenty of time. Mig welding would have been much faster but the high inter-pass temp problem would have probably been much worse. I used about 9 lbs of the 2110 rod and about 3 lbs of the 1105 rod.
 

http://www.iforgeiron.com/gallery/image/37084-anvil-post-welding/

After welding I evenly reheated the anvil to 400 deg. using the weed burner. Surprisingly I used less than 1 - 20lb  propane cylinder for the entire pre and post heating process. I had a second cylinder standing by if needed though. You would not want to run out of propane in the middle of the heating process. Once the anvil was hot I quickly installed the box sides and filled the box with 4 cu. ft. of vermiculite.

http://www.iforgeiron.com/gallery/image/37082-anvil-in-box-1/

http://www.iforgeiron.com/gallery/image/37083-anvil-in-vermiculite/

I checked the anvil approx 27 hrs later and it was still too hot to hold your hand on it. At about 52 hrs it was still slightly warm.

[Beebs]

Step 5) Finish Grinding
 
I did the finish grinding using a combination of a 7" grinder with a coarse cup wheel, 4" grinder with flapper sanding discs, 4x24 belt sander and a small pneumatic angle head grinder with a scotch brite pad for the final finish. The belt sander gave a nice straight and flat surface after getting it close with the coarse cup wheel.
           
I used a straight edge on spacers with a dial caliper to check the straightness of the grinding process as it progressed.

http://www.iforgeiron.com/gallery/image/37078-anvil-checking-straightness/

 
As you might imagine the final grinding  was the least enjoyable part of the process. It took quite a while (approx 6 hrs) to complete and was both mentally and physically tiring. I broke it up into 3 or 4 blocks to spread out the fun. If I were to do it again I would try putting the anvil in the milling machine and use a heavy duty carbide  fly cutter instead of grinding. I was originally afraid it would be too hard to cut but now I don't think it would be.

[Beebs]

Step 6) Enjoy!
 
Here are a few photos of the final product. I am pretty happy with the appearance. Time will tell as to how durable the repair will be. All told I have about 16 hrs and $325 (including the cost of anvil, but not the cost of tools and any leftover materials) in it. On the ball bearing rebound test the repaired area rebounds approx. 70-80% compared to 80-90% on the original top plate.

http://www.iforgeiron.com/gallery/image/37081-anvil-final-weld-area/

http://www.iforgeiron.com/gallery/image/37077-anvil-after-top-side/

http://www.iforgeiron.com/gallery/image/37079-anvil-final-in-bucket/

http://www.iforgeiron.com/gallery/image/37080-anvil-final-on-floor/

 
I'd be happy to try to answer any questions on anything on the repair I may have missed.

[Maillemaker]

Wonderful job.  Your explanations are clear and concise, and the entire process methodical and easy to follow.  Very well done.

[mat]

great wip thanks for taking the time

[HWHII]

:huh:

Step 5) Finish Grinding
 
I did the finish grinding using a combination of a 7" grinder with a coarse cup wheel, 4" grinder with flapper sanding discs, 4x24 belt sander and a small pneumatic angle head grinder with a scotch brite pad for the final finish. The belt sander gave a nice straight and flat surface after getting it close with the coarse cup wheel.
           
I used a straight edge on spacers with a dial caliper to check the straightness of the grinding process as it progressed.

 
As you might imagine the final grinding  was the least enjoyable part of the process. It took quite a while (approx 6 hrs) to complete and was both mentally and physically tiring. I broke it up into 3 or 4 blocks to spread out the fun. If I were to do it again I would try putting the anvil in the milling machine and use a heavy duty carbide  fly cutter instead of grinding. I was originally afraid it would be too hard to cut but now I don't think it would be.

 

 

I did one like this with hard surfacing rod and took it into the machine shop. The forman did it for me and told me not to ever bring him another.  :huh: You have done a very nice quality repair.

[CleetisMorgan]

Love all the info here!!

[windancer]

Cool!

Now I understand why refinishing an anvil is so costly and so hard to find someone with experience to do the work.

You did a great job!

Guess I will live with all the little bumps and worn spots on my anvil.

Thanks for taking all the extra time do do this step-by-step and the photos.

Dave

[Pulsepushthepopulace]

Great Write up Beebs!!!!

[Zengineer]

Great write up and a great job. Thanks for sharing!

[timgunn1962]

Just for future reference, a few blobs of barbeque paint or VHT in flat black will solve the emmissivity issue and let you get good IR temperature readings from the different surfaces. At work, I usually use a piece of black duct tape on the surface for temperatures up to maybe 100 degC/200 degF.

[VaughnT]

Excellent job.  A detailed report like this really needs to be pinned at the top of the page so it doesn't get lost!

[Beebs]

Thanks for all the kind comments. I spent a lot of time researching and planning the repair but never really found anywhere that had all of the information in one place. Hopefully this helps someone else with their repair project.

 

Tim, great suggestion with the black paint to remedy the emissivity issue. I will try it out next time I have a chance.

[David Gaddis]

WOW !

   Here is a well written testament on the value of an anvil. It brings into the light some of the same values I have tried to express for some of the other smits in their desire to have an anvil And that is: Just because it may be cheap, the real cost of the repair can bring the value of an anvil to a too high a cost. And here you have gone between both extremes by a fairly economical repair that gave a devalued anvil a complete new high valued life.

 

   Many of the anvils posted here could well be an equal example to your project. There exists however an amount of economic s and ability to bring a worn and abused piece back into a usable form.

 

   So my philosophy remains, do not waste one single dollar on a worn out piece as you put that same dollar away waiting for a good purchase. And yet I yield to Mr Beebs' fine example to carry out the opposite extreme.

 

   Thank you for such a grand literary presentation.

 

David Gaddis

 

 

 

carry on

[ThomasPowers]

One should always consider the opportunity cost of doing such massive repairs as well as the basic consumables and time.

[darren70]

As a chronic DIY'er i have done a lot of things that were probably not the most economical in both time and money, but i also gain a lot of satisfaction from what i have done and it is also continually adding the my bank of skills. Another thing that i would consider in a case like this is i am keeping something alive and restoring it that otherwise would be of little use. These are just my views though.

 Excellent job on the repair mate and very informative report too.

 Thanks

Darren

[KYBOY]

$325 for a nice 300 pound anvil is pretty dang good..

[ianinsa]

I know it's probably not cost effective,  but it's beautifull  & you probably will need to suck a lot of lemons to get that grin off your face :D  , n ice job. 

[Everything Mac]

Excellent thread. How is the anvil holding up?

[Liveaxle]

Great bunch of information all in one place and a very fine job. I know I'm late to this party, but I had a question or two. So as not to  assume, is this a wrought iron base and steel top forge welded on? And I've hear that if the anvil doesn't have much of a rind ( I have a William Foster ) it may be because of the wrought iron base and steel top coming apart.It has good rebound. Really goon in fact. With this in mind, is there a repair for that you know of? And lastly, the economics issue some have brought up. As long as the total cost didn't surpass (in dollars) that of a new or in good condition used it was a good investment. You can't pay someone to get that kind of experience.

[Frosty]

I have only one suggestion for this process. After the post heat go right after it with the cup grinder, it'll grind much faster and won't cool appreciably to mess up the heat treat nor welds. Don't try for the finish grind! this is just to do the major bead removal and rough leveling. If you plan for this type of step you can build the vermiculite box so you can get to the face allowing you to bury most of the anvil in vermiculite before grinding. The downside to this little trick is the grinder's cooling fan WILL blow vermiculite all over the place so lay something on top of it like a tarp or similar. Do I HAVE to say a fire resistant or fire proof tarp like thing?

 

If you come close to as nice a job as Beebs you'll have EARNED bragging rights. forget a carbide or such fly cutter to finish, use a grinder where horizontal mills REALLY shine. Before you chuck an anvil in a mill, surface grinder, etc. you MUST register the face and base relationships! If you don't you'll discover the SAD way anvils are seldom parallel face to base and mill/grind/etc. significant amounts of valuable face plate away to no good purpose.

 

Please keep us posted on your progress. We LOVE progress pics.

 

Frosty The Lucky.