EWCTool Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Some swear by them, others raise fits over them. Are they good or are they a waste of money? How are they when it comes to heavier stock, ~1.5 inch? What is the difference between them and a production cross pein? Move more metal faster? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KYBOY Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 There are several manufacturers out there that use the term "ergonomic"..A good quaility hand made hammer is a pleasure to use but to be honest "is it worth it" is in the eye of the beholder..Also its not gonna make one bit of difference on heavier stock.Though a good hammer with proper technique will help you forge longer with less stress to your body...1 1/2" stock is still gonna wear you out regardless.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Also note that what is ergonomic for one person might be TERRIBLE for another as we all differ a bit in how we are physically. If you are thinking to sink big bucks into a *special* hammer it would be a good idea to borrow one from a friendly smith and study the "how to use it" info and decide if it's for you *first*. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Hale Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Not sure how much experience yo have in forging but I have along held belief that most things we learn can take a long time..but if we apply ourselves a lot,,two years can make alot of difference in wot we thought we needed when we first started. If this is new to you,,get a 2 lb hammer,,make sure the handle is long enough,,make sure it is not too big around, make sure the head and face shapes are exactly wot they need to be........hahahaha..No way can I or anyone decide wot it right for you. But try things and you will develop your own sets of needs. If yoiu have someone you forge with and they are helping you that may influence wot you like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beth Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 i have an ergonomic hammer which i was very fond of till someone made me a completely differently shaped one, longer handle, curved head, and i really love my new one, its springier and more responsive and though its lighter by quite a bit it moves stuff just as great :) but if its ergonomic or not too, i have no idea, i know it suits me though. you need to be able to compare to know what you like i guess..? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy k Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 EWCTOOL - I think the first question I'll ask is...... What exact hammers are you talking about? Compairing? You asked kind of a blind Question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EWCTool Posted July 11, 2012 Author Share Posted July 11, 2012 I have been forging for around six years. I know what hammers work for me and I dress my hammers to a very specific face that I feel moves metal the way that I want it to move. I am young, 21 years old and a college athlete. On a typical day I will swing a six pound hammer all day forging 1.5 inch round stock in the 90 degree heat, and tell my coach I am cross training. I have no desire to get a hammer described as being ergonomic, I feel like I would break it. As I stated above I have heard some people swear by them, and others raise Cain over them. I am not looking for advice, I'm too set into my ways for any of it to stick, and I dont think I am the only one with this quality. What I want is to start a discussion about Pros and Cons concerning the so called ergonomic hammers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy k Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 If you search this site - there have been many threads that have covered this question many times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beth Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 hey mr tool, maybe you should try a so called 'ergonomic' for comparisons sake - your own experience will inform you the most after all, i have a hofi and i can assure you, you would not break it.! its a shame to be too stuck in your ways at 21, theres a lot to learn out there - thats the fun bit! i only speak for myself of course... ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry H Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 once you learn to work with a hammer, under the guidance of someone with the knowledge of a hammer, you can do anything.....regardless of the shape of the metal on the end of the stick you are wielding. I never knew what a hammer can do until I saw an experienced smith do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Turley Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 I have a pricey little text book* covering ergonomics. The subject can get quite complicated and involved since the end result is an attempt to protect the body from trauma or repetitive stress injury. This book talks about ergonomics in design. It talks about the professional "ergonomist." It discusses "ergonomically-oriented hand tool design." However, I cannot find in the book where it uses "ergonomic" as an adjective, as in "ergonomic hammer." There are too many factors to consider. Some of the chapter discussions are: pathology and physiology of the arm and hand; anatomy of the upper extremity; anthropometry of the hand; kinesiology of arm and hand; biomechanics and hand tools; ergonomics and the hand tool; safe design. *Ergonomics and Safety in Hand Tool Design" by Charles A. Cacha. ISBN 1-56670-308-5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Where I used to work once sunk big bucks into "Ergonomic Chairs" for the hundreds of us that sat all day in front of the computer screens. They sprung this on us as a surprise and I spend a week trying to adjust my new chair so that I didn't feel in agony by the end of the day---then went around till I found one of the old models that had fit my lower back *perfectly* stashed in an old conference room. I used that one under "official displeasure" till they laid everyone off several years later. Turns out my Father had lectured on Human Factors at Cambridge once and his take is: there is NO one size fits all solutions! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry H Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 I would be very interested to hear how many professional smiths bought and use "ergonomic " hammers. I know a few pros on this site and I'm not sure, but....., I dunno,.... enlighten me please, ( if I need it ). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Dave Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 I have both, an ergonomic hammer and a non-ergo hammers. Some days I like one and then I try another and like that one. It's the feel that it gives you and who knows why it does. The moral is to have lots of hammers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anvil Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 I think ergonomics is not so much in the hammer as it is in how you use your whole body when you use the hammer. It is the dance at the anvil that really counts. Seems I heard that somewhere long ago,eh Frank? I teach me students to swing and follow thru from fingertips to toes. So far going on more than 40 years horseshoeing and traditional blacksmithing with no tennis elbow or any other problems. As far as discussing erg hammers, seems the semantics is focused on the wrong spot. Just my take on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anvil Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Also, as for good design, well that depends on its particular job, thus the need for more than one hammer. However, my primary hand hammer is an old mechanics. I do not believe these have been avalable for many years. Its balance is right for me. It is a cross pein. The weight on the flat face nearly equals the pein end. This means, when using the flat face, in mid swing, or usually the rebound, I can let is rotate in my hand and basically have anything from a full flat blow to an unlimited number of different straight peins to get what I need. And when using the crosspein, it rotates just to where I need it every time. This is ergonomectrically correct for me, and most hand mades that I have seenand liked are made this way. Again, works for me. Hope this helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric sprado Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Thanks Frank! I was going to throw in a similar 1.5 cents worth. Another "beat to death" word is "Ecology". Ecology is a science,NOT a political stance.It belongs to no political party,but is the STUDY of the interactions of parts of systems. Read Fundamentals of Ecology by Adams. When someone asks "do you believe in all this ecology stuff I have to give a "HUH?" answer. Sorry to bend the thread,but it really is important,when talking about ANYTHING that we have a definition that we all agree on. The Hofi "Ergonomic" hammer,as he blatantly calls it on YouTube,is not based on ANY kind of study of which I'm aware. It is a current marketing fad word. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Turley Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Yes, the use of the body and semantics. In the book I mentioned above, Cacha defines ergonomics. "...ergonomics is the discipline which studies how human beings physically posture themselves in relationship to the many different types of artifacts they have created. The artifacts vary in size and complexity and may include vehicles, buildings, furnishings, equipment, materials, controls, implements, and tools. The ergonomist applies the principles of anatomy, physiology, kinesiology, and biomechanics to achieve a major mission: the control of musculoskeletal disease." There is this note about hammers, under the title, "Limited Speed." "Under some circumstances, the shortness of human limbs limits the speed of manipulation of objects and tools. Tools, which extend human reach, also may increase manipulation speed if manipulation movement is performed in an arcing motion. The handle of a hammer allows a greater speed of motion of the hammer head as compared to holding the hammer head in the hand. The greater speed in turn produces a greater force during impact." This latter quotation should be obvious to us smiths, but perhaps it isn't. One of my friends, Steven, said that when he was brought up with baseball, he got his hands near the narrow end of the bat and he "always swung for the fence." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matto Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Try as many hammers as you can, but remember that with a hammer we are not just talking about the steel head, you have a handle also. Most ergonomic hammer I have seen have shorter handles then I like. So I rehandled mine and then rasped down the Handle to the shape I like, or works best for my hand. So try as many hammer with different handle stiles as you can try not to forge with ten hammers in one forging session, try to just use one or two. That way you get the full feel of a hammer from fresh to fatigue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gearhartironwerks Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 I don't know about this thread having wittnessed at a hammerin with both the Hofi method vs the German hammer in drawing to a point a 1"sq piece of stock 3" long in one heat. It seemed to me that each participant was equally adept at hammer control. Both completed the task as challenged. I did it with the Hoffi hammer and I'm not overly proficient at hand hammering, so I have to give it to the Hofi hammer for moving material because of the radius on the edges of the hammer head being used as a fullering tool. That being said, I still have my favorite 2 lb.German stlye hammer and the 3 lb Hofi and I use them both as needed. It really is about ergonomics and personal technique. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Gaddis Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Many of us have not yet learned to use ALL of the hammer whether it be ergonomic or not. Last night I got another example of a different die on the hammer by Brian as he demonstrated to the 3 young smiths....it is the bottom edge that requires a differnt body stance than normal. Call that un-ergonomic Well I am not sure. i am personally using a B.Brazeal hammer and am pretty pleased so far...I had to learn how to hold it properly, too. And some may call it marketing...well if the good hammer has many dies on each end then it is a beginning. Get a balanced handle design and good posture....beginning of ergonomics I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Trez Cole Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 I wrote 2 articles on the subject you can find them here Hammer Myth or legend, and Ergonomics and after a lengthy discussion on the subject with a Doctor of ergonomics from USF it come downs to the physiology and pathology So the long term effects can only be determined after we are gone unless you are willing to give up an arm. and I would agree with David. Brian's method is great if a hammer has equal mass on each side of the eye it is a balanced hammer. the videos I sent him on the other methods he sees a great concern with the other methods being tough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan P. Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 I don't know about this thread having wittnessed at a hammerin with both the Hofi method vs the German hammer in drawing to a point a 1"sq piece of stock 3" long in one heat. I think it is necessary to point out that being able to forge 1" stock 3" long (3" starting length or finished length?) in one heat is not really very important to being a good blacksmith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan P. Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 On a typical day I will swing a six pound hammer all day forging 1.5 inch round stock in the 90 degree heat, and tell my coach I am cross training. I have no desire to get a hammer described as being ergonomic, I feel like I would break it. Similarly, I feel it necessary to point out to any beginning smith that the above claim is to be taken with a good handful of salt. A 6lb hammer, forging 1.5" bar, in 90 degree heat? A typical day? I would have to see that to come anywhere close to believing it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timothy Miller Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 I have developed this Ergonomic hammer It is perfectly balanced along the axis of the handle. The handle will also transfer no vibration to the smiths hand. It is available for 17 easy payments of 69.95. It comes with hammer rest layered in 8 carat gold with real zirconium inlay. And if you act now I will throw in cast aluminum fire pot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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