Borntoolate Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 All, I am attempting to make a basket weave handle from a single 5/8" bar using no welds. This has proven to be a difficult endevour though I am learning, as always. I made a 6 sided ball on the end of a 5/8" Bar. Then I decided I wanted to make a 4 strip basket weave handle below it by cutting the strips hot. I squared the round bar so it would lay flat and have been working the cuts slowly with a hot cut but this is proving to be a huge challenge to get the square bar to hot cut into 4 equal square strips, nicely aligned in roughly 6.5" in length. I am also trying to keep the opposite end from the 6 sided ball in one piece thus not requiring any welds for the basket weave handle. If you guys were to do this how would you do it? Now it may be true that I should not attempt to do this because it is very time consuming. BUt I would really like to hear how others have done this, assuming you have... And how best to get it done within a reasonable time, while keeping the 4 square strips relatively equal, no cold shuts due to misalignment and no major damage to tools and/or anvil. I can post a pic of where I am at on this but right now it's been a long day and I am just tired and hungry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWooldridge Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Use a very thin but moderately wide hot chisel. Edge should be sharp to 1/16" with very little wedge taper and maybe 1-1/2" wide. Mark the bar cold so it has a slight groove centered on each side. Take a heat and cut a short depth into each side (1/8-3/16) then straighten the bar so everything is balanced. Next heat, continue to cut from each side until you break thru in the center. Open the ribs slightly and clean out the burrs with a rasp. If you like the proportions, continue to open on one plane only, so two strips are lying together on each side with the center oval balanced. When you have that right, heat evenly and separate the strips so they are 90 degrees apart (the hot cut is good for this). The final step is to heat evenly again and twist to form the basket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macbruce Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Water jet works well for a large quantity. I've seen it done on those fold out crosses..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 I would have cut it on band saw before doing up the ball on the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Hammer Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Watch this....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X62dDh_9on0&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David E. Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Or maybe a thin slitting disc in an angle grinder, at least to get it started. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Turley Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 The traditional way looks OK. Using a saw may take away too much metal in the kerf. I would advise sharpening the hot cut on three edges and putting a radius on each corner. I would also thin the blade somewhat. To further explain the sharpening, you not only sharpen the bottom cutting edge, but you continue to run the sharpening up each side edge. In this way you avoid most of the cold chisel wedge appearence and spread, which especially is unsightly on the ends of the cut. The radiused corners will help to prevent the corners upsetting while the hot cut is in the workpiece. Though it is time consuming, you might avoid the center punch marks and simply cold cut your lines so that they are visible. Use a cold chisel with a crowned cutting edge and rock it along like a P38 can opener. The hot cut follows. Credit. See how to sharpen a "slit chisel" in Schwarzkopf, "Plain and Ornamental Forging." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattBower Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Thanks, Frank. That was very informative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Funny I thought that forge welding them was a "traditional way". Lots more forge welding than slitting back in the old wrought iron days! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Trez Cole Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 taking your time and layout is the key as I see it. Once you have made a few it will not seem so hard. I would make your ball but wait to facet it at the end that way it will not deform in the process or keep it cooled off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
34557564 Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Just out of curiosity, why don't you want to weld it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob S Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Funny I thought that forge welding them was a "traditional way". Lots more forge welding than slitting back in the old wrought iron days! Reminds me of what is called 'conventional' landing gear (on airplanes. ). Back when all there was was tail draggers, that became known as 'conventional' landing gear. Then 'tricycle' landing gear came out. I doubt an airplane is made today with 'conventional' landing gear (1) but the taildraggers are still called 'conventional'. (1) possible exceptions are some 'kit planes'. more here... http://en.wikipedia....al_landing_gear ps. I'm not a pilot. :ph34r: pps. the whole 'traditional' v. 'modern' seems like a pointless quibble to me. I mean who cares? ppps. could be fun to see a 747 taildragger tho. :o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Roy Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Can you imagine a 747 executing a ground loop? (I am a pilot with taildragger time) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 I would use a cutoff wheel on my die grinder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenbeast Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 yeah get the 1mm discs, not too much kerf for 5/8" bar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Most such discussions are not worth the quibbling *except* for the fact that this forum is teaching the next generation of smiths and so we should be extra special careful not to mislead them. We've had to deal with so much misinformation back when it was just word of mouth or repeated in a book or two---"Packing" anyone?---So given a chance lets get the new people set off right! (save for when we pull their legs about something...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 I agree entirely Thomas, I thought this thread was turning more into an engineering lesson than a blacksmithing one, forge weld bundle or split would be the way to go, quicker too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borntoolate Posted February 23, 2012 Author Share Posted February 23, 2012 Just out of curiosity, why don't you want to weld it? I have made a handle but the end after welding becomes fairly small in diameter. My "customer" brother in law asked for some sort of decorative ball at the handled end. For that I need a fairly fat hunk of metal at the very tip of the handle. Seems that would be hard to incorporate into the forge welded bars or forge weld in afterwards. Thus the desire to make this from a heavy chunk. AND I just like to try and to learn new things. I appreciate the traditional blacksmith responses the most. I don't have a water knife so that doesn't help much. Now I would like to have a water knife! I very much like the responses that describe the specific tooling, dimensions, contours and sequence approaches / Technigues. I am actually making very few things. I spend much of my time trying new things and then making the tooling needed to make those things easier to make as well as learning the technigues to use them effectively. Though in this case this is to be a handle for a broken fireplace tool for my Brother in law Joe. So I guess I am making something. Just don't ask how much time I spend making one handle. I also do enjoy teaching and I think I am actually good at that. To do that well I feel one needs to really understand the challenges, tools and technigues very well. This along with having made as many mistakes as possible. As long as I learn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Learn to fireweld a collar onto the end of the bar and forge that into a ball Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattBower Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Very nice, John. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry H Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 there's nuttin' wrong with that video, You did a good thing, lots of work, lessons of any type are not cheap...but you already know that. We have to know various methods, I've always liked the one piece thing, If you fold the end onto itself and weld you will have plenty of meat to make a ball....if not, fold it twice. Plenty of finesse with the cutter, i guess you've done this at least once or twice before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolhand Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Forge weld it. Way simpler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Very nice, John. Those particular ones are not mine Matt, They were just sample pics I took at the New Forest Show for reference should anyone wish to aspire to making them or looking for ideas, most were made by Guild members and I didn't have much time time to answer when I put those up, These are some I made that may be relevant the split cage is in 12mm (1/2") square bar (made similar as to the video) these others firewelded round bar bundles, one with a ball forged on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borntoolate Posted February 23, 2012 Author Share Posted February 23, 2012 Learn to fireweld a collar onto the end of the bar and forge that into a ball I considered that but lack confidence in my welding to make it look clean. But, seeing it done and seeing the result always helps motivate me to try. THANKS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borntoolate Posted February 23, 2012 Author Share Posted February 23, 2012 Those particular ones are not mine Matt, They were just sample pics I took at the New Forest Show for reference should anyone wish to aspire to making them or looking for ideas, most were made by Guild members and I didn't have much time time to answer when I put those up, These are some I made that may be relevant the split cage is in 12mm (1/2") square bar (made similar as to the video) these others firewelded round bar bundles, one with a ball forged on John, How do you make those last three? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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