insulted by a newbie

[Larry H]

so this kid ( i think ) puts a post on a very popular web site looking for blacksmiths in my area. I give him a call, because I'm a sucker for people who wish to learn. He says he is in North Carolina at a blacksmithing school. So I wait a week and call him back. He tells me " i asked around and nobody ever heard of you " And never called back for FREE lessons. May be no one ever heard of me but I think anyone looking to learn should make better decisions. Even scoundrels and fools can be bearers of wisdom, Thanks for letting me vent its been stuck in my craw for a few months now. I hope I can give it a rest .

[CurlyGeorge]

LOL. Just remember, It's his loss. You did your part. Someday he'll realize that everyone has something to pass along to others. Heck, even the "Old timers" learn something new once in awhile. I've gotten a similar reaction, a couple of times from New smiths. But they all learned something, if not a wealth. :D

[mrkiddi]

ahh i see...he must be one of those "i learn blacksmithing for one day and then i can make a damascus sword" type of fantasy "blacksmith".
really bugs me that everyone that i know think i can make a viking sword or katana and i always tell them i have to do this for a long time and get the right equipment to such a thing...
i would gladly like to have help from someone that has been doing this for longer or even shorter than i have...swapping knowledge is the only thing that makes you better at this trade:)
so sorry you had to waste your time on one of those "Blacksmiths"

[NRunals]

That is so silly, you can learn so much by just watching another smith draw a taper let alone give a lesson.

[edge9001]

I have already had several "kids" askif i could make then a sword. I can barely make knives much less swords

[HWHII]

I have had this happen to me too. I try not to get a bad attitude about it and keep offering help to anyone who asks becasuse there is always the one who comes along you can make a difference with.

[Ulric]

Give him some doubt, think of all the various 'experts' in other various fields that we've
encountered at one time or another. Has every mechanic, contractor etc been honest and truthful?

Sure he may have handled it wrong, but as you stated yourself... he's a kid. Don't take it
personal and realize he's a product of the environment around him.

[Timothy Miller]

I have a friend who says life's too short to truly master this craft. I sort of agree there are so many areas of forge work to master and always more to learn. I normaly put in 50+ hours a week and I have been at it for 17 or so years there is still so much to learn. People new to blacksmithing don't even know how much they don't know. There are many teachers out there who have "names" some very good some just OK. I chuckle to my self when I see guys who came up after me teaching classes. I read the curriculum and they make this person out to be a master or something. I remember seeing this guy 5 or six years ago struggling to light a fire. I never was as interested in teaching as I was making a living as a blacksmith. Then again there are some teachers out there who are very good and a few masters.

[pkrankow]

While a more mature and appropriate response may have been "sure let's have a chat, maybe tour your shop and talk, then I can decide if this is a fair fit" his response that nobody he knew, knew you or your work should not be taken as offensive. Abrasive, rude, unbecoming sure, but I think no deliberate offense was meant.

Phil

[lordcaradoc]

Smithy1,

Sounds like he wasn't worth your time. I have been playing with this for well over 10 years and a year ago decided to get serious, in a hobby way at Blacksmithing. I have had few teachers in person and wish I had more. Actually, with my latest move, I have found a great community of smiths, many on this site, who are much more accessible and I might just find more one-on-one time with them, whether in class, or just observing them work.

It was his error in wanting somebody famous, but how would he know anyway, yeah he said he asked around at his Blacksmithing school, but that could mean anything. Our local group, NWBA, had a thread in the forums about a guy who was going to open a school for making Japanese swords, but nobody in the area ever heard about any school. YMMV.

Some say education is worth what you pay for it, but I disagree, because I have friends who I learn from who are not as advanced in some areas, and I am able to increase their understanding while standing at the anvil as well. A generous person is rich who can share knowledge to the willing.

Best regards,
Tim

[edge9001]

I didnt get insulted by the kid asking for swords AND i was very polite when i told him no. something to the effect of come back in a few years and we will see if I am capable of it by then. we he and i took one of my large spike lik enails and made him a knife out of if. a rough and crude knife that probably will never holod a good edge. but he got something and he got to learn just how "good" I am at blades at this point. we had a good laugh when it was finished. this thing really was pretty bad. I've gotten (i would say) much better since then. now to improve to a point where i can sell something

[Mainely,Bob]

I have to laugh and relate a little story.
I was called by someone just like this newbie who wanted to be a bowlturner and I told him to stop on by,no strings attached,and we`d talk and to bring his tools and I`d help show him how to sharpen them.He never showed and I asked the fellow who suggested I call him what the story was.He told me he decided to go with a "real instruction course" at a local art center.Guess who showed up in my class?
Later that year during the summer he decides to take a week long course at the Center for Furniture Craftsmanship in Rockport.He was once again surprised to see me there as a co-instructor(the other instructor is a good friend of mine and a big name in woodturning).
He told me later that he wished he had taken me up on my first invite as he had gone to the computers at the center and looked me up to find I was both a past president and founding member of the Maine AAW chapter and chairman of the board of directors at the time.
I smiled and said,"yep,coulda saved yourself a pile of cash.Now lets get to work".
He joined the turning club after the class finished and at his first meeting met many of the big names he had read about,imagine that!

[Harley]

There was a young fella who came by here with his Dad on a quest to purchase a hand crank blower. He was a metal arts student at the regional Vo Tech school, Dad was in the metal trades as well, machinest if I recall correctly. We takled for a long time as they made their way through my smithy. They looked at 4 different blowers I had for sale and from speaking with them the young fella seemed to be on the right track. I told them they were both welcome to come by from time to time and bash some iron with me . IN the end the youmg fella didn't want to spent the $ I was asking for a blower. We talked as we walked back to the roadside at which point I told the young fella that if he wanted to walk back to the smithy he could one particular blower for free and two 50# bags of coal. He took me up on the offer. I got a few emails from him with a question or two which I answered. Within a few short months I saw a posting by him on this forum I believe in which he stated " I have this blacksmithing thing down now". I chuckled. Some time later he asked if I was going to attend the Fitchburg "Forge in " competiton to which I replied " No, I would prefer to be working in my smithy making $ rather than taking part in a half hearted competiton. His response to me was sort of smart xxxx and I was somewhat offended. Apparently this young boy had mastered the art of blacksmithing and was going to set the world on fire.
people with that kind of attitude are NOT WELCOME in my smithy.

[monstermetal]

I think I would have said... Hu, ive been working at this for "X" years and I have only scratched the surface... Would you mind if me and a few of my blacksmith friends set up a class for you to teach to show all of us who have been doing it most of our lives how its done?

[Larry H]

While a more mature and appropriate response may have been "sure let's have a chat, maybe tour your shop and talk, then I can decide if this is a fair fit" his response that nobody he knew, knew you or your work should not be taken as offensive. Abrasive, rude, unbecoming sure, but I think no deliberate offense was meant.

Phil

I was not offended that nobody knew me,.... most people don't, makes no never mind to me, .... I was offended by the fact that it sounded like he was expecting me to send him my resume' so he could determine if I was worthy of his time. This is not the first time someone wanted to learn, six months after one other person was learning in my shop was on T.V. pretending to be a blacksmith!!!. He told me he always wanted to learn blacksmithing , and now he had some horrible kidney disease and wouldn't last much longer,.... what a load of xxxx, hung out his shingle and everything.

[Glenn]

He tells me " i asked around and nobody ever heard of you "

In the kids defense he most likely has never heard of most of the experts in most fields of skill and expertise, and most likely has never heard of most people that live more than 50 miles from where he has been.

If you wish to learn, surround yourself with the very best in the field of your interest. Pay your dues. Invest your time and efforts then go back with samples of your work and ask for additional direction. But then most know that already.

[rawtiron]

I wish there were more smiths in my part of the world like you people, willing and able to take some time to teach. I learn best with someone standing by my side.
Jason

[Glenn]

IForgeIron has several members from NZ.

Post your question to the forum and you will be surprised by the answers others can provide.

[rawtiron]

Thanks Glenn. I have been in touch with a couple of local farriers/smiths here in the Manawatu area. They are pretty busy trying to make a living, but we do get together every now and then which is great. I learn well from watching others, then having many goes myself.
Jason

[maddog]

I've also had this experience many times. I am no master blacksmith and I wouldn't set myself up as a teacher but I certainly can be of help to a complete newbie. I've offered help to people locally, on this and other forums and rarely get so much as "Thanks for the offer but..." I think it has something to do with giving away for free. In general, people just don't value what they don't pay for. Not always but usually.

Recently a newbie posted that he was desperate for tongs. I PM'ed him to say, hey I am making a batch of tongs right now, would you like a couple pair? Never got a reply.

The biggest step forward for me was a Saturday afternoon that I spent in Jimmy Treadwell's shop. I was watching a demo by Gunter, got chatting with Jimmy and he offered to give me some time in his shop. He pretended it was in payment for some scrap leafspring I was going to give him but that was just a pretext. An afternoon in a professional's shop for the price of a couple of rusty springs is not an even trade. Just standing in a smiths shop, seeing how things were actually done, did more for me than all my piddling around by myself with my books over the previous year. While I was there Jimmy made two pair of Poz tongs for me. They were the first real tongs I ever owned. 'You need 1/4" and 3/8" to start with.', he told me and proceeded to bang them out on his PH. I still remember the feeling I got when I first closed a pair on a piece of stock and suddenly understood what real tongs were about. They were nothing like what I had imagined from my books. That was almost 20 years ago. I still have them and use them. I cherish them and ever since then I have felt an obligation to do for other beginners what Jimmy did for me.

[used-iron]

Some how this all sounds familiar . Just remember no good deed goes unpunished.
Lee from NYS land of taxes

[John McPherson]

Those who set out to set the world on fire should have paid more attention in school, they would have found out the globe is 70% covered in water.

I have found that the speed at which somebody (of any age)jumps into a craft equals the velocity that they exit. Most get bored when they find they can not master a subject without hard work and study.

Fake it 'til you make it seems to be the American way, since we have no guilds or licensing to enforce standards. (Ducks for cover.) The world is full of people who are better than I am at every conceivable task, but that does not stop me from doing the best I know how. I will tell you up front how little I know on a subject, and refer you to a master, but I do not claim to be an expert on anything that I don't have a pocket card for.

I have first year welding students try to explain to my why they are better/smarter than I am during the week, and punks telling me how to make swords when I do a museum demo on a weekend. And just once in a while, someone who shuts up, pays attention, and tries. And that my friends makes it all worthwhile. :D

[Glenn]

Most get bored when they find they can not master a subject without hard work and study.

Hard work and study? What a concept.
That takes at most 2 or maybe 3 hours right? (grin)

[cckemm]

That statement reminds me of my oldest son. I keep telling him, "the more I learn, the dumber I feel". Someday, if he is lucky, he will understand that statement.

[forgemaster]

I had a utter dill phone me quite a few years ago and ask me if I had any apprenticeships on offer, I told him I was looking at starting another in the new year, call me then, earlier rather then later. He left no phone No. and he seemed a little vague. New year came and went, did'nt hear from him so I started another kid who was keen to learn. A month later he rings me to see if I had put on a kid, "yes I told him, what happened to you". Get this "oh I really wanted to learn from a proffessional, you know, someone who really knows what they are doing, so I decided not to go with you". "I'm looking at getting a job with XXXX" OK I said, all the best. One year later he rings me again, says he's made a mistake and the other bloke has'nt taught him anything, he's not learning much at all, all he is is just a labourer by another name, and could I sign him up for an apprenticeship with our company. Bet you can't guess what my answer was.

Phil