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Forging copper with steel


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Any one ever forge copper in with steel? I am thinking of 1/8th steel rod with a single 1/8th copper rod. create a braclet out of a damascus type forging. My son is getting maried and I am thinking of forging a very special gift for the bride and the mothers. Ain't I a sap!! LOL!!

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copper can be fused with iron, just take a look around on this site, i have seen more than a few blades that have copper in them with iron, whether you call it welding or brazing matters not, the two will fuss together solid. This can prove to be difficult as copper has sure a lower melting point, but is posible

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This is supposed to be fun so I seek the challenge. I am self taught as my work interfers way too much to attend any classes. Thanks for the insights and if anything works ... or even if it doesn't I will keep all up to date.

As they say, "I gotta try man!!!, It's in my blood man!!!"

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I seem to remembe some ships used to made of steel plate fused or clad to copper plate on the outside, I may have details somewhere. I also know it is easy to tig weld copper directly to steel. I may be a little concerned about forging it though, the copper might be so much softer at steel forging temps that it may not work well. Do some homework on welding steel to copper and try it, Just be sure to let us know what happens,pics temps etc...
good luck
Rob

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copper will readily fuse to steel. I've often used pieces of thick electrical wire as filler rods and an oxy acettylene torch to "apply" copper to the surface of steel to give a nice decorative effect. I've had sucess doing the same with stainless steel. I've never tried forging the combination afterwards but would be curious to hear of the results.

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Using copper to fuse 2 pieces of steel together is easy enough, clean well and clamp them together and put them in the fire and keep a close watch, although the copper melts at a lower temperature it seems to wait until the steel is hot enough before it fuses.It gives a strong joint, but perhaps if you chase grooves into the steel first to give a type of inlay when the copper melts will make it stronger to withstand any forging. Do not forget re-introducing the piece back into the fire to get a forging temp will result in the copper doing a runner :D so do as much forging as you can on the steel first.As Dave said applying the copper as a decorative effect might be the best way to go. Good Luck.

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Any one ever forge copper in with steel? I am thinking of 1/8th steel rod with a single 1/8th copper rod. create a braclet out of a damascus type forging. My son is getting maried and I am thinking of forging a very special gift for the bride and the mothers. Ain't I a sap!! LOL!!


My suggestion would be to go for it before you get lost in reasons and facts why you can't do it, just go for it take pictures at each stage and entertain us, you may succeed, and don't read any further.


As you are talking Rod ths implies round bar and this is different to layering for billet welding

You can forge steel, you can forge copper, but not getting the same results at the same temperatures, so pattern welding a'la Damascus is technically out.

However plaited and forged, or twisting and forged would be viable and give an interesting effect, especially with the properties of each at a similar temperature,

Just forge at below the melting point of the copper, you may have to trial this a couple of times I would think just above dull red on the steel.

Good luck with it and lets see the results of your labour. GO Go Go
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Be careful as copper *splashes* at a good steel forging temp. Most decorative work is done by fusing copper to steel and then working cold.

Note that safety gear that is good for forging solid steel is often NOT ENOUGH to be around molten metals.

You may want to look up Dambrascus; mixed metals a fellow was doing a couple of decades ago.

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It's darned easy to copper "braze" to incorporate copper, brass or bronze into iron. Subsequent forging needs to be done below the melting temp of the filler metal but is good for some nice high contrast results. Not as high contrast nor as easy as incorporating nickle though but still dramatic if done well.

Below are a couple links to Jim Binnion's website showing a couple things he's done incorporating iron into mokume Gane. My favorites are the tea post.

http://mokume-gane.com/index.php?page=collections&subpage=wedding_bands&subsubpage=iron_collection

http://mokume-gane.com/index.php?page=collections&subpage=special_commissions&subsubpage=teapot

Frosty the Lucky.

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A member of our guild is a damascus and mokume guru! He often creates mokume gane in a sealed stainless container wherein the copper and steel are welded together within the container. Here is a piece that I won in this months iron in the hat.CopperandMildSteelMokume.JPG

Here is a link to our guilds website where you can see some of the other things he has made. Southeast Georgia Blacksmiths

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Ironic enough, Earlier this morning I was doing just what you posted about. I take two 3/8 x 2" pieces of bar and punch holes in either end - using 30 gauge steel sheet and 30 gauge copper sheet cut down, I alternate the layers starting and ending with the steel, then I stack the whole thing together and slide bolts through the holes of the 3/8 and give them a good torque. Throw it into the gas forge on a lower setting and once I see the process starting I shut it off and forget about it until its cold. Whatever you do, don't quench it - the metals cool at different rates and it will cause separation.

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Just a slightly humorous side note to the steel/copper forging topic, many years ago a friend of mine had a short section of ground rod. Interesting stuff this ground rod, copper on the outside, steel on the inside, he plops it down in the forge and gets it hot, a nice red heat, lays it out on the anvil and gives it a big old wholp and copper flies every where. WOW! what a mess that was! :blink:

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  • 2 months later...

Hi all Im a new member here , but have been making Damascus art knives for several years . I also wanted to do a billit with copper included . The first few trys were a bust but a learing experiance . what finally worked for me was to make up a damascus bar with 1095 and nickle . I then put a layer of nickle on both sides then a layer of copper on top of the nickle more nickle on the copper and a final layer of damascus as the outside layers on both sides of the bar . I placed the stack in a steel tube and brought it up to a bright orange-red pulled it out of the forge waited about 4 or 5 minutes and hit it lightly on all four sides . I stuck it back in the forge and brought it back to a dull red . (just barely hot enough for shaping steel but plenty hot enough for the copper and drew it out into a long bar about 1" square and about 10" long . then while still in the tube got it hot and did a twist in the vise . after it cooled down I put it in my mill and cut the twisted bar down to a slab about 1/4" thick . Yep, I know I waisted a lot of material , but this was an expermint to see if it would work . I bent the slice around a braclet mandrel and then shaped it to my satisfaction . it made a really neat piece the nickle stuck to the steel and the copper fused beautifly to the nickle .It made a pretty unusal piece . I sold the piece before I got a chance to pothograph it . But I will do the process again in the next copple weeks as time permits and post the results on our web page . www.artistsoftherockies.com try it it is a fun project . Wayne

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Wayne:

You might want to experiment with Mokume Gane techniques. What you describe is half pattern welding and half mokume gane.

James Binnion does mokume gane with some of the most unlikely sounding combinations you could imagine and does it beautifully.

Diffussion welding is just as solid as fusion welding and doesn't much care what the metals being joined are. Heck, forge welding is diffussion welding as we aren't melting the joins.

Frosty the Lucky.

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Ironic enough, Earlier this morning I was doing just what you posted about. I take two 3/8 x 2" pieces of bar and punch holes in either end - using 30 gauge steel sheet and 30 gauge copper sheet cut down, I alternate the layers starting and ending with the steel, then I stack the whole thing together and slide bolts through the holes of the 3/8 and give them a good torque. Throw it into the gas forge on a lower setting and once I see the process starting I shut it off and forget about it until its cold. Whatever you do, don't quench it - the metals cool at different rates and it will cause separation.


I'm curious - how do you know when the "process" starts? What do you look for? Also, do you use any flux or do any kind of prep to the metal any special way?
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I'm curious - how do you know when the "process" starts? What do you look for? Also, do you use any flux or do any kind of prep to the metal any special way?

Hi I look for what I call the right color . Not very teck and probably is not the correct way to do it , but it seems to work for me . I take all the metal slabs and hand sand the surface to get any crud off then wash them with dish soap and a good scrub brush . Im not putting any flux in the tube . since they are sealed in the tube the metal does not seem to get any fire scale . I hit the tube pretty lightly so as not to blow it apart . and just draw it out little by little .I don't know if what im doing is right or wrong , but it worked so I'll do it again .Wayne
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Bentiron mentioned the problem of the grounding rod and spattering copper when hit hot.

I picked up some grounding rods from the beach when the last hurricane brushed the Outter Banks of North Carolina. The power poles were trashed and the bent rods were discarded in the surf. To my surprise they make pretty good tongs. I haven't had the copper spatter yet. These rods are about 5/8" round.

I don't know how they got the copper to stick to the steel rods but I haven't beat it free yet. But then I am not a metalurgist and am in the beginning stages of blacksmithing.

Mark<><

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Liquid copper will wet onto steel quite easily with some borax to wash away the oxides. This is the traditional penny weld. Examples of copper coated steel are all over the place. Mig wire, grounding rods, cookware.

From what the bladesmiths say it seems its also possible to do a forge weld. It makes sense to me that if the two metals can bond in liquid phase they can do so as solids given the right conditions.

I have done a bit of brazing with a propane torch. It was a struggle, the work lost heat almost as fast as the little torch delivers it. I suppose one could do a copper "braze" with a propane torch on a small piece with some insulation. Perhaps mapp gas will do it.

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  • 10 years later...

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