Frosty

I'd bust it out GENTLY and put the fire pot in a table. Just cut a hole it'll drop into and rest on the flange around the top. It doesn't need to be anything heavy, 14 gauge is plenty, a couple pieces of angle iron across the bottom will stiffen it nicely. If you use say 2" angle flange UP to make the frame the top can just drop in if it's snug and the flange makes a perfect retainer to hold coal. Ram an inch or so of DAMP clay on the table and she'll last a good long time. Oh don't forget legs and spreaders, a nice shelf across the spreaders is REALLY handy and makes a fine place for the ash bucket under the ash dump. Frosty The Lucky.

Oh good grief indeed! You SAID it was a cook top in the OP! I'll go sit in a corner for a while. So, is it going to be a fire pot? Do you have plans for a tuyere, fire grate, etc? There isn't need for as much work as you've put into it already. A plate that fits inside the hub needs no bolts to hold it down, gravity works just fine. If your tuyere is heavy and off center one bolt will secure it easily enough. A hole in the center over the tuyere can be covered with round bar stock with a small gap between the bars to make an air grate. Some guys weld them with a space but you can simply put a hair pin bend in them. The idea is the space between the bars provides plenty of air flow but is really easy to clean you can just rake them lengthwise with a poker. I used exhaust pipe for the tuyere on my coal forge. 4" semi stack for the vertical and 2" for the horizontal section. If you use a hole saw you can drill the connection point for a perfect fit and mig it up. If you don't have a mig you can make tabs, bend them drill them and pop rivet the sections. Easy peasy. I used a semi exhaust stack flap cap clamped to the bottom for the ash dump and added a little section of rod to the counter weight to it stayed closed and was easy to lift with tongs, a piece or stock or a stick to dump. Frosty The Lucky.

Have you downloaded Ron Reil's burner directions? Part of the problem is the over sized supply pipe, it's blocking a LOT of the intake air it needs to burn clean. 1/8" pipe is more than enough supply for a 3/4" burner and will block about 1/4 as much as the one you're using now. Once you unblock it the air will flow easier and will supply much more air than the increase might seem. Buy the right size drill bit for goodness sake! You'll save enough in propane to pay for it before you empty the first tank. Now download the plans and follow them. Ron spent years developing a burner that works IF you build it to his plans. There is NO intelligent reason to try figuring it out. A smart person learns from another person's work. Frosty The Lucky.

That's a darned big hammer you're swinging Ethan. Don't be damaging yourself, it's easy to just shrug off little twinges and aches at your age but in another 40 years or so some will catch up and make you pay. I'll be watching for your pics. Frosty The Lucky.

Yeah, keeping the better half is important. I just see a LOT of guys trying to use a shop vac or leaf blower. A good diverter valve should do the trick. Don't forget we LOVE pics. Frosty The Lucky.

Nice piece I see lots of potential. Christmas lights or maybe just one red one on the nose. My only concern would be it falling or someone falling on it, lots of sharp points. Well done, Frosty like. Frosty The Lucky.

Aw you could do 90% with the chainsaw easily and then all you'd need is a scraper to clean the inside. You can do really clean work with a chainsaw with some practice. Just watch out for the great white . . . birches! Frosty The Lucky.

A shop vac is WAY overkill for a forge blower, a yard sale blow drier is usually more than enough for most home shop forge work. Frosty The Lucky.

(Of good grief ) The air grate goes in the BOTTOM of a fire pot, not across the top. Frosty The Lucky.

Welcome aboard Dor, glad to have you. If you'll put your general location in the header you might be surprised how many of the gang live within visiting distance. There is no such thing as the "best" forge and without at least developing proficiency and a product line you won't know enough to even make good guesses. I suggest reading the gas forge section here, this very question has been asked so many times I . . . Pull up a comfy chair, pack a lunch, the beverages of your choice and get ready to spend a few days reading and you'll have enough grounding to make a start. Believe me unless you really like tinkering in the dark you'd much rather learn from other guy's mistakes. Oh Mike: That's NOTHING compared to some of the splendiferously over complexstipated schemes proposed buy folk right here on Iforge! I can hardly wait till someone with more dollars than sense buys one and asks US to help make it work. Frosty The Lucky.

Welcome aboard. If you put your general location in the header you might be surprised how many live within visiting distance. Download Ron's directions, pictures and all and FOLLOW them. You'll have a much better chance of success than just winging it. Just because there're flames coming out one end doesn't mean it's "running." Seriously if you can't afford one lousy drill bit you certainly can't afford the craft. Frosty The Lucky.

Welcome aboard, glad to have you. Looks like someone put a fire pot in a rivet forge but that doesn't fit the description you gave. how about a picture of the bottom so we can see what's going on. In general though concrete is a BAD thing in a fire, especially a HOT fire. So, NO don't repeat that mistake. Frosty The Lucky.

You can use two Crescent wrenches but you'll have to learn to do it the hard way. It's hard to keep things straight so you'll need to get good faster. Of course making a twisting wrench or two is a good way to build skills sets too. Frosty The Lucky.

Welcome aboard VJ glad to have you. If you'll put your general location in the header you might be surprised how many of the gang live within visiting distance. Ground anchors are typically low carbon steel a really poor choice for a chisel of any kind. Either visit a spring shop and see if you can get a spring steel drop or maybe start hitting yard, garage, etc. sales looking for largish hammer heads or pry bars. Any of these are typically decent steel in the medium carbon range and can be forged into your log gouge, bark spud, etc. Frosty The Lucky.

You're on Mike: I stopped trying to define terms for myself two summers ago when the local VA held a "surplus?!" book sale for the Wasilla library. I picked up "the Kiln Book", materials, specifications & construction. second edition. By Fredrick L. Olsen. Hardbacks were $1.00 but this was on the everything in a bag for $1.00 table! "the Kiln Book," covers kilns built from adobe bricks and fired with dung up to and including electric kilns with ni chrome elements and everything in between. While it doesn't spec anything using NA burners there is no real difference between gun and NA burners once the fire hits the chamber. Virtually everything we need to list in a glossary is already in one. ILL the book and see. The only significant purpose of an "accelerator?" is to make the gas flow in a smooth laminar jet to improve induction be it combustion air or bilge water, regardless of the primary pressure, be it propane, steam or water. Ports are just openings in the furnace liner to allow access be it flame or exhaust, heck what we call "doors" are ports or "portals." Be specific, there are all manner of "Port." But I prefer the old English pronunciation of Tuyere, "To air" but the southern Appalachian pronunciation, "Tyree" has a nice ring to it too. I think trying to define "Frame" as anything but the descriptive term it is, is a bit presumptuous don't you? What's wrong with, "x - mount? eg. motor mounts or engine mounts. Again a person must specify the type mount. Cage? I think you're just trying to come up with terms now or are you trying to generate discussion? In particular "Cage" already has too many different meanings, trying to lend it another is just inviting confusion. Someone invented the "adjective" a long time ago to help streamline the language, eg. Burner Mount or multiple burner mount, etc. Shell: agreed, mollusks got it right first time. I think what you're suggesting is to "formalize" what's been happening since the internet went public and (among many other things) the blacksmith's craft began to transfer it's lore from the oral tradition to a formal international language. Well okay it started with Cuneiform in Sumer but . . . Frosty The Lucky.

Mr. Miller's nailed it. I've been saying we sell bragging rights for years and that is entirely perception. It's silly to think we need to "educate" the public that is self delusion. If we're looking to sell product WE have to sell what the customer wants. I've sent folk to Sears or other big box stores many times. I'll fab it up if they want to pay my shop rate. I'll go out and mine ore, burn charcoal in a pit and use young boys pumping goat bladder bellows to refine then forge a product IF the customer wants to pay shop rate on a time and material basis. Heck I might not even charge shop rate for my research time. The customer often rethinks the value of "traditional" when they see the bid. It's a fact of life that perception is much MUCH more fluid than reality. Dad had tooling to "hammer mark" spun parts and sold hammer marked flower pots by the thousands. I got to trim, roll the beads and run the hammer mark roller over them but polishing the things was the real PITA. I can't tell you how happy it made me when a new customer speced they be spun from steel and plated. WooHOO! Jerry didn't have to polish and buff the blankety blank things and wasn't green anymore! Oh don't worry Joel we still love you. Of course you'll go down in Iforge history for bringing this topic up. We'll name it after you, maybe have a contest even. Oh come ON Glenn Joel can call HIMSELF anything he likes so long as it's civil. However I don't think calling IPS names for it's disappearing platform should be disallowed in any civil form. Frosty The Lucky.

We eyeballed al and found the best casting temp was when it was just liquid, hotter is NOT better. Sometimes it looked like lumpy mercury coming out of the crucible and those were the golden pours. However do NOT judge your alloy by my 45+ year old memories. Make small test molds and experiment till you find what works best. You also have to choose your al carefully if you're using scrap. Al cans and structural shapes are extrusion alloys and not so hot for casting. Try to source thin castings to use, in high school we tried hard to find old motorcycle engine heads and transmission cases as the al was alloyed to fill thin molds. Frosty The Lucky.

What kind of orifice? I laid out a reasonably easy and accurate method of drilling, tapping the T and brass fitting for a T burner and posted it here. I'm not that fond of fixing the supply pipe across the intake and drilling the jet orifice in it but it's easy enough to do. buy or make a V block, center it under the bit, center punch LIGHTLY, clamp and drill. If you're drilling a fitting you've soldered closed the easy way is to chuck the fitting in the drill press and clamp the drill bit in the vise. Simply turn the drill on and flatten the end of the fitting with a draw file. The score marks will mark the center as perfectly as a boy could want. With the drill bit clamped vertical center it on the fitting and drill it out. Chasing a mig contact tip is even easier. insert the drill bit that matches the orifice in the mig tip and chuck them in the drill press then gently clamp them in the vise. Check the alignment by by gently advancing and retracting the feed. When it moves easily and you can remove the bit and reinsert it cleanly remove the bit from the drill press and solder up the mig tip. When cool it's ready to drill to spec. It's much easier to get a drill bit plumb to the drill quill than the fitting. So long as you don't expect a drill press's bearings to take any side loading it'll work fine as a lathe. Frosty The Lucky.

I just realized I forgot to welcome you to the Forum, glad to have you. If you'll post your general location in the header you might be surprised how many of the IFI gang live within visiting distance. A 1350C burnout isn't for casting al, that's bronze territory. It's also in the temperature range where you have to have the right kind of sand or it'll vitrify, melt or powder. It might be the sand degrading your molds. Try holding your burnout temp to say 600-650C range after the 150C burnout cycle. Try it on a test piece of your investment rather than a mold. There's no good reason to experiment on molds, there's too much work involved to learn the properties of your investment. I haven't done any casting in I don't know how long and that was mostly al in green sand. We investment cast bronze a couple times as assignments in metal shop class but had nothing to do with formulating, mixing or anything but applying the investment. The method we used was to dip the form let it dry, dip a second time and afterwards sprinkle sand on the wet investment let it dry and repeat. By dry I mean it wasn't dripping or wet wet but still pliable. After saying that I have to warn you those memories are on the order of 45 years ago. Frosty The Lucky.

I have to agree, as invisible a join as possible to preserve the elements as they are looks best to me. Hidden rivets come in behind a clean dressed arc weld underneath and last but not least a copper or bronze braze. The arc weld will as Alan says preserve the current patina and texture well. A copper braze might show some bleed in the joint but that may be an attractive feature, I'd have to experiment and see to decide. I also don't know how a copper braze would patina with age. I think brass or silver solder would be too much contrast and draw attention from the piece. Very nice trivet, I like it a lot. Frosty The Lucky.

Take a class and follow the product directions, humans have been doing this stuff for a couple thousand years, no reason to figure it out. What are you using for PPE? Frosty The Lucky.

The Mastercrafts series is solid information, a person could learn enough from one to make a go at surviving on the skill. No it's not a course or even a class in a particular craft but it's good info. Frosty The Lucky.

Welcome aboard, glad to have you. If you put your general location in the header you might be surprised how many of the IFI gang live within visiting distance. You MUST follow the directions to make a naturally aspirated burner work. Don't bother asking Ron why yours won't work, he stopped replying at all he was so tired of people asking questions without reading his directions and FAQs. He's posted detailed, dimensioned drawings decades ago. If you can't make a burner work following those, nothing we can tell you will help. I'll point out one basic mistake you made. Good GRIEF buy the right size drill bit! If you can't afford one lousy drill bit you can't afford to practice the craft. Frosty The Lucky.

Check out Brian Brazeal's slitting punch they work wonderfully well. Remember Thin will heat faster and burn sooner than Thick. Forge the thick to finish first and as much as possible leave the thin till last. Brush aggressively but don't get it really hot first, even dull red will oxidize rapidly. If you're work is scaling IN the forge the fire is running lean. Place your work higher in a coal or charcoal fire and reduce the air. If a gas forge choke it down a little even a bit of tape if necessary. OR an old gas forge trick is to toss a piece or two of charcoal in to scavenge free oxy. If it's really critical and you just can't keep it from scaling, put on your apron and flux it. A layer of flux will keep the oxy off the work but it WILL splash around if your still doing hammer work. Borax is water soluble and is easily removed by soaking the piece in water with a couple drops of Dawn or similar dish soap. Frosty The Lucky.

Tradition, <sigh> Good and bad, if it's a method to preserve methods, that improve a culture's success, call it survival then it's a good thing. If it's a method to preserve one "culture's" advantage over another it's not so good. If Yellin used it it's traditional. A blacksmith name of Miller invented the arc welder to minimize losses to failed forge welds on made up pieces. The Miller family was in direct competition with Samuel Yellin and within a year or so the Yellin shop sported several Miller welders. To this day the Yellin shop arc welds made up pieces. Better, faster, cheaper, any one = more profitable and is at the heart of blacksmith tradition. Modern traditionalists have eschewed the true tradition of the blacksmith by making a philosophical decision to limit their tech base to a specific time period. If they were going to be accurate they'd limit themselves to time and local but like so many philosophical opinions . . . My opinion is today's blacksmith is sitting in an air conditioned control booth monitoring the computers and sipping a Jolt cola. Frosty The Lucky.