Mikey98118

I'm sure you're quite right about them, and furthermore, I'll bet a certain amount of repair work will have to be done on their burners too; their products are cheap at a cheap price; anyone expecting more than this is living in a dream world. On the other hand people can buy American at full price and still end up with unsatisfactory equipment; Ive heard a lot of grumbling about that from people who hate their high priced unsatisfactory forges... Or people can buy one of the few satisfactory forges on the market for quite a lot of money (try Chili Forge), build several forges spending a lot of time and a lot of money because "they new better than the experts," or obtain a book, actually read it carefully, and follow its instructions EXACTLY (this is the least traveled path). Ain't life a bitch?

Frosty is right. I'm saying stick the barbed ending of your burner into an American hose, and screw the other hose end onto an American regulator.

Jeff, I like the choice of a stainless steel trash can for the shell; that was clever. His choice of homemade refractory and finish coat was clever too, and I wish it would work, which it will for a very short while, and then it will fall apart. Sodium silicate fails around 1900 F, and that is what is holding everything else together. Perlite also fails at about 1900 F; together sodium silicate and Perlite make a very good outer layer, IF they are protected by an IR reflective coated castable refractory hot-face (inner layer), which is then surrounded by a thick secondary layer of insulating refractory, such as ceramic fiber.

JHCC, This is totally off topic, but with hands like that you might consider coaxing her to take piano lessons; talk about a reach!

BTW, charles, One of my favorite contributors on a casting group is into jewelry work and uses his jewelers torch to power a miniature casting furnace. I'm trying to provoke him into countering my argument, because this is an issue I'd rather lose than win--so long as it can be done safely

Light Hammer, Adjusting the flame nozzle position affects the flame; making it harder and softer; the more overhang the softer and visa versa. A tapered nozzle's position will affect the flame much less than a straight nozzle with spacer ring, BUT, not every burner develops sufficient mixture speed to support this second nozzle design. Therefore, first see if you can get the result you seek with the tapered nozzle. Your reducer is sufficiently large, but you would also need a MIG tip in your gas pipe; not a side hole. to support the nozzle. As has been stated elsewhere, the minimum performance you need is a neutral flame, which is recognized primarily by flame color; a light blue flame without the slightest tinge of green in it. You can self-teach what that means by using your choke while watching the flame. After you get that done, your next goal is to see how much you can reduce the secondary flame envelope; 'nough said for now.

Mister Tim, the other end of the hose still has a fitting on it, and can screw onto a regulator.

Ianinsa and Frosty both have it right. A flame nozzle on that burner would probably lengthen your flame, and in this case you don't want to go there.

Probably the best all round position is from the bottom facing up, so far as overall efficiency is concerned. But, the most popular position is about twenty degrees off top dead center. As with so many things, it's not just about efficiency, but more about personal preference. I would recommend that newbies use a loose kiln shelf or firebrick and play with burner positioning by trapping tunnel forges between angle irons before deciding how to aim their burners. A little extra effort to make the right-for-you decision is always a good investment.

Frosty, The search for the "perfect forge" is like the search for "truth"; it's not a destination, but a journey. I like this journey, just as you like pounding iron; may we both be happy with our lot, and may others benefit from more choices. I get the occasional thrill from a new "Formula One bit of equipment every now and then. After fifteen years in ornamental iron, artwork lost all romance for me, but learning and inventing is still a kick alter fifty

Why use exterior baffle plates or walls of brick, instead of partially enclosing the forge front and back openings? There isn't any such thing as an optimum hole size from an exhaust vent. Too large and you waste energy; too small and you apply back pressure against the burner. If you figured out some mathematical formula to come up with the right vent size for a given burner, you'd still be out of luck, because most burners have a turn long down range. If the burner and vent hole match at one setting the hole is either too large or too small at every other setting. Fortunately, there isn't any need to make an exhaust vent; just use a variable distance baffle plate made from a high alumina kiln shelf (or stack of bricks) instead, and you can adjust your forge exhaust opening to perfectly match any burner size or setting. an exterior baffle also permits recovery of radiant heat that would otherwise be lost, reduction in noise (as sound waves don't turn corners very well), and hot exhaust gases are directed up and away from the smith. You might ask "if this system is so perfect why isn't everybody using it already?" I would answer "for the simple reason that most people feel that good enough is good enough; and they are right...so far is that goes. On the other hand, when you are building a forge from scratch this isn't more work; it's just a different design path.

One othher specific: You want to buy a 3 pound coffee can that has a peel off plastic seal on its top side, beause, under that plastic seal is a 1/2" wide rim, which will stiffen up the can quite a bit.

Loved the photos of the hinge; they really were worth a thousand words.

Mister Tim, You need something to reflect IR back into the forge and slow down hot gas exhaust a bit; even just brick in front of the openings.

Nate, You want to aim the burner at a hard refractory surface, whether castable refractory, a hard refractory brick, or a high alumina kiln shelf, or at minimum a mortar coating. Any decent burner wil; quickly destroy ceramic fiber, if you allow direct flame impingement on it.

They are totally right about needing a regulator, but you could also have gotten some very unpredictable back pressure effects from possible steam formation, which will continue until all water is boiled out of the rigidized ceramic fiber.

Of course, you could just use the washer for a choke and simplify everything...duh

Once you build or buy a burner, you'll want to install it in a forge or furnace, which brings us to burner ports. Some people just drill a hole in the steel shell and form a matching hole in the refractory, but this doesn't provide support for the burner or any way to fine tune its aim within the equipment, so others attach a short length of pipe or heavy wall tube, and use six thumb screws, in two rows of three screws each, to trap and aim the burner. So much for the obvious. Now let's discuss control of secondary air, and cooling of the burner. Even single combustion wave burners can benefit from external cooling air, if the burners penetrate extra thick refractory and insulating layers (more than 2") or are vary small 1/4" or less, because internal cooling from the cold incoming propane could be overcome during very long heats, under these conditions. Most burners have at least primary and secondary flame envelopes, so some builders deliberately leave their burner ports unsealed during operation, because secondary air induction (now powered by the flame) is needed for complete combustion. Unfortunately, this nearly always leads to an overabundance of a good thing, because the flame becomes an even more powerful induction "motor" than a burner's gas jet makes. It takes energy to heat air, so extra secondary air becomes a drag on performance within the equipment; typically a 20% heat reduction. Fortunately, we don't have an if/or choice to make. It is just as easy to control incoming air through the burner port as incoming air through the burner. First, add another choke at the end of the burner port's tube; mount a washer brazed to a ring with thumb screw on the burner; once the burner is installed, it can be slid up against the portal tube's end to seal the port when needed, and moved away from the opening to varied distances, as desired to control secondary air flow. Is this more work? Obviously; should you expend the additional effort? Also obviously. But what about single combustion wave burners? Better to have a way to cool down the burner when needed, than to depend on luck. If your burner suddenly starts back firing you won't care about temporarily losing some furnace efficiency, so use the same burner port changes for them too. Also if a Mikey burner isn't perfectly made, and perfectly tuned, you will need a very little bit of secondary air for complete combustion in a forge or casting furnace; better to have it than risk even trace amounts of carbon monoxide in your shop.

So, what can we do to tweak burner performance from a shorter tip? Try taking the gas pipe down to your local hardware store, and finding plastic tube that can be inserted in it, to improve laminar flow between pipe and gas jet, in order to get the same effect that Larry Zoeller did by switching from schedule #40 (about 14" I.D.) to schedule #80 (about 3/16" I.D.)1/8" pipe.

How much gas depends on what size the forge is, and how well it's built.

Doesn't really matter; it's still a good subject for the rest of us

"What's best is unimportant you really want something that works well, leave best for folk who like to eek the most possible from devices. Once they've sweated their hair off we can thank them and use their designs. Thank you Mikey. Your welcome Frosty; so that's why my hair is thinning!

"Wash the blanket with rigidizer and kiln wash AFTER you drill the burner ports or it can turn into a real mess." Nice point there, Frosty. Frosty, I recommend up to 1/4" of refractory, mortar, etc. as a hard coating (AKA hot-face) over rigidized ceramic fiber, and also plan to try using you "kiln wash" idea before doing it my preferred way on the next forge.

Their prices are right. After buying all those burner parts here, you might save twenty bucks doing all the construction work yourself. Svings on the forges would be a little bit higher on their forges.

Light Hammer, In the first place, that isn't a half bad flame for a burner running out in the open air. I would suggest replacing the tapered flame nozzle with a straight nozzle one size larger with a spacer between it and the mixing tube, but first, try moving your tapered nozzle back and forth on the mixing tube to see if performance changes for the better.